Death Knights Need Buffs.

90 Blood Elf Death Knight
10095
Yeah, as fun as Dark Succor was, it let me play like a complete idiot. It was a lot like rogues last season, I could go mongoloid offensive and it didn't matter.

We're just too susceptible to spike damage. A baseline 10-15% reduction would go a long way in smoothing that out.
Edited by Venvicta on 10/25/2012 9:14 AM PDT
100 Undead Mage
11615
I'm going to say this once and hope it gets remembered for the rest of this conversation.

DKs will NOT be able to be balanced until Warriors, Hunter and Mages are brought into something closer to order.

Warrior survivability will obviously seem awful when Wariors and Hunters are crapping on people. Those two classes already took DKs apart, much less in their current state. If Blizzard comes out and definitively says, "Warriors are fine." then, yes, DKs will need buffs.

Amiracle: No, you did not. Unless you're some kind of freaky raid boss mage. My Frost Bomb tops off at right around 100k at best. Or was this Temple and you're just braggin'?
80 Human Priest
3225
DKs are definitely bad but I saw this from beta which is why mine will stay at 85. DK tools were great in WOTLK but they are out dated.

Strangulate? This ability needs to be buffed. It needs a shorter cooldown (not sure why it wasn't lowered to 1min considering we lost the talent to lower it), and it needs to be off the GCD.

DKs need CC. The class use to get by with being the "snare" class but now that desecration is gone the class really needs some hard CC. Remoresless Winter is a joke....

DK survival is also terrible, and has been terrible for a long time.

Having to choose between chilblains and death's advance is terrible design. You need both really to function in MOP but you are only allowed one.

The class went from being the best designed to one of the worst.

Necrotic Strike needs to go back to using a unholy rune. DKs were one of the worst represented classes in Cata. I don't know why they felt the need to nerf Necrotic Strike, force this DA vs. Chilblains choice on us, on top of removing hungering cold, and taking desecration out the game.

Why all these nerfs for a class that was sucking up all of Cata? I mean DKs only were a middle of the pack class between 4.0.8 and 4.1. A total of 7 weeks. Outside of that the class was bottom of the barrel.
Edited by Primiez on 10/25/2012 9:29 AM PDT
90 Human Death Knight
9855
My feedback focuses on two specific dislikes; however, that doesn't necessarily indicate a belief that DK's need an overall buff, but more so just some "lateral" changes.

Here are the two issues I find most frustrating:

  • I feel like I can't keep opponents in melee range for very long.
    When I slow enemies with Chains of Ice, it frequently seems like they are still moving faster than I am – not always, but often. A buff in this area would probably warrant a change to DK's current 4pc PvP bonus, but I think a buff/nerf tradeoff between these two would make gameplay more enjoyable.

  • The rune system is really clunky in PvP.
    Using Chains of Ice feels over-penalizing. Because Obliterate is a two-rune ability, using CoI isn't a choice between using one single-rune ability over another, but using a single-rune ability instead of a two-rune ability. If I can't use Obliterate b/c I used the Frost Rune on CoI, then I have two Unholy Runes that just sit there... clunky. I would much rather Necrotic Strike have a CD and use an Unholy Rune over the way it works now.
Edited by Hxdes on 10/25/2012 9:35 AM PDT
100 Undead Mage
11615
A couple of points to the above posters:

Yes, I agree, the rune system is clunky. I've personally never liked it and it takes a lot of skill purely to manage that resource in the best way.

Now, I agree that DK mobility isn't the very best. But I honestly think that's a problem with other classes, not DKs. The damage DKs can bring to the table is second only to Warriors and DKs are much less cooldown reliant.

Lastly, I think Chillblains + DA = Infinite uptime. And that's just silly.
90 Night Elf Druid
8115
Take away Second Wind from warriors and give it to death knights. XD
18 Dwarf Hunter
0
sit in blood presence while getting trained by melee, hard concept huh
90 Human Paladin
6700
Play TSG...Profit
90 Human Death Knight
9740
10/25/2012 11:27 AMPosted by Simurgh
sit in blood presence while getting trained by melee, hard concept huh


Never mentioned any issue with survivability, I actually feel dk survivability is very solid unlike cata.
90 Human Death Knight
7390
Yeah. I feel like we were gave a lot of pretty things in wotlk and have been ignored since leading us to become completely outdated mechanic wise. Our damage is fine, and we can keep up great consistent damage, but we have little burst, no mobility, terrible cc. Our only slow is chillbains. Chains of ice is worthless without chillbains, but you really don't need chains of ice when you have chill bains. Either give us the improved chains of ice OR baseline chillbains/give desocration back.

Essentially we are glass cannons with little utility.
Edited by Phokas on 10/25/2012 6:05 PM PDT
90 Human Death Knight
7745
Lower the 5 minute CD on empowered rune weapon, increase the non glyphed duration of icebound fortitude or add some utility to it... for example it could also remove disarm effects, the cd could be reduced from 3 minutes. Buff necrotic strikes absorb amount or change it from a death rune to unholy, change the at least 20 percent hp back after kill death strike glyph to no glyph but something death strike automatically does if you kill an enemy.

Obliterates hit hard yes but after our hard hitting openers with empowered rune weapon we go from extremely hard hitters like every other class to a softer hitting class that isn't near as consistent in dmg as a bm hunter/arms warrior/mages.

Dk is my 3rd level 90 and unfortunate for me I picked the 3 worst classes of this patch (other 2 are rogue/disc priest). Really hope all 3 of these classes see some lovin next patch.
36 Human Paladin
7575
I feel like I can't keep opponents in melee range for very long.
When I slow enemies with Chains of Ice, it frequently seems like they are still moving faster than I am – not always, but often. A buff in this area would probably warrant a change to DK's current 4pc PvP bonus, but I think a buff/nerf tradeoff between these two would make gameplay more enjoyable.


This is certainly an issue I'm feeling, but not because I can't keep the opponent slowed, but instead that there is just a ridiculous amount of CC that I'm eating.

Desecration not breaking roots, Remorseless Winter being 3 times the cd of shock wave and incredibly easy to avoid, I guess Gorefiends Grasp is good in RBGs, but I have a hard time finding a group for those.
90 Undead Warrior
8080
10/24/2012 10:24 PMPosted by Trip
It's not hard to understand that dk mechanics are outdated right now, just compare some of our abilities to other classes and amount of cc they got in mop and maybe you get the picture.

Direct quote from Anotherx, winner of the European World of Warcraft Invitational 2012.

Our resource system cannot keep up with the current state of the game, our main damage ability requires 2 runes, which is all fine and dandy for pve, but once you have to use a rune outside of "pve rotation" it causes hassles and leaves you sitting on unholy runes with no worth while means of getting rid of them.

Necrotic Strike costing a death rune - It's currently not worth using necrotic strike other than the debuff and even then it's debatable. The absorb it puts on is so minuscule the riptide, rejuv, holy shock etc. will have removed it before you can use another ability. Obliterate will be 99% of the time the better choice to use in conjunction with a death rune.

Dk's are by far the easiest melee to shut down. Warriors charge every 12s and have a 3minute cd making them immune to movement impairing effects, feral's can shift all snares and roots while moving at an increased speed and ret's have the ability to dispel themselves, again while moving at an increased speed.
However when it comes to dk's we have deathgrip every 25seconds, which by most classes by the time they land give it 1 or 2 seconds they're out of range already. As frost we're forced to play in frost presence making us the slowest moving melee, frost presence needs to give the same movement speed bonus as unholy presence and death's advance needs to go back to being baseline, the current tier death's advance is in it's an impossible choice to pick it.

DK's have no utility, we have no cc at all, in the current state of mop every other class has 10 of them. Warriors aoe fear 1min cd and a 20second aoe stun, Ferals every 5cp's instant cyclone or root. Ret's can get a 30s cd stun, and the most stupid of all abilities Blinding Light. Yes lets remove hungering cold because an instant aoe unavoidable cc is much too overpowered. Then turn around give the ability a new name and give it to ret's, good joke!

What do dk's have in the way of cc? The only choice is Remorseless winter, which is a stun that takes 5 seconds to actually stun, if it was instant and aoe sure it would be amazing. However in it's current state every class can counter it, druids can shift out of the snare, freedom completely negates it, other dk's can ams it and the list goes on.

Then onto our silence. Strangulate is the worst silence in the game. It's on gcd, no other silence is, it's a 2min cd the longest of all silences, and it costs a blood rune. With the removal of blood tap, it's pathetic, you have to either be lucky enough that when the situation to strang arises you happen to have a death rune, or you have to sit on your rune twiddling your thumbs.

TLDR -
We need death's advance basline.
Revert necrotic back to 1 unholy rune, remove the casting speed debuff.
Make Strang 1min cd, off gcd and no rune cost.
Put hungering cold back in the game on a 2minute cd, it's no different to blinding light, or make remorseless winter instant.
Best of All buff unholy so we don't have to play frost.


A class having outdated mechanics doesn't mean it needs "buffed" it means it needs revamped. Also, your list of "buffs" are retarded and im glad you don't work for blizzard.
90 Human Paladin
6755
This class isn't hot.

This class isn't cold.

This class is just right.

The only problem is that there are other classes that are so hot it's making deathknights look cold, when they really aren't.
85 Draenei Shaman
5405
10/25/2012 09:22 AMPosted by Banaritaz
Amiracle: No, you did not. Unless you're some kind of freaky raid boss mage. My Frost Bomb tops off at right around 100k at best. Or was this Temple and you're just braggin'?


I did though, a dk popped AMS with ironbark up and I killed him 100% to 0, maybe not in a global, but the span of 4 seconds
90 Human Death Knight
9740
10/26/2012 12:53 AMPosted by Covlolz
A class having outdated mechanics doesn't mean it needs "buffed" it means it needs revamped. Also, your list of "buffs" are retarded and im glad you don't work for blizzard.

There is a reason your dk is still 85.

This class isn't hot.

This class isn't cold.

This class is just right.

The only problem is that there are other classes that are so hot it's making deathknights look cold, when they really aren't.

Nerfing other classes wont fix dk's issues.
Edited by Trip on 10/26/2012 1:12 AM PDT
80 Human Priest
3225
10/26/2012 12:53 AMPosted by Covlolz

Direct quote from Anotherx, winner of the European World of Warcraft Invitational 2012.

Our resource system cannot keep up with the current state of the game, our main damage ability requires 2 runes, which is all fine and dandy for pve, but once you have to use a rune outside of "pve rotation" it causes hassles and leaves you sitting on unholy runes with no worth while means of getting rid of them.

Necrotic Strike costing a death rune - It's currently not worth using necrotic strike other than the debuff and even then it's debatable. The absorb it puts on is so minuscule the riptide, rejuv, holy shock etc. will have removed it before you can use another ability. Obliterate will be 99% of the time the better choice to use in conjunction with a death rune.

Dk's are by far the easiest melee to shut down. Warriors charge every 12s and have a 3minute cd making them immune to movement impairing effects, feral's can shift all snares and roots while moving at an increased speed and ret's have the ability to dispel themselves, again while moving at an increased speed.
However when it comes to dk's we have deathgrip every 25seconds, which by most classes by the time they land give it 1 or 2 seconds they're out of range already. As frost we're forced to play in frost presence making us the slowest moving melee, frost presence needs to give the same movement speed bonus as unholy presence and death's advance needs to go back to being baseline, the current tier death's advance is in it's an impossible choice to pick it.

DK's have no utility, we have no cc at all, in the current state of mop every other class has 10 of them. Warriors aoe fear 1min cd and a 20second aoe stun, Ferals every 5cp's instant cyclone or root. Ret's can get a 30s cd stun, and the most stupid of all abilities Blinding Light. Yes lets remove hungering cold because an instant aoe unavoidable cc is much too overpowered. Then turn around give the ability a new name and give it to ret's, good joke!

What do dk's have in the way of cc? The only choice is Remorseless winter, which is a stun that takes 5 seconds to actually stun, if it was instant and aoe sure it would be amazing. However in it's current state every class can counter it, druids can shift out of the snare, freedom completely negates it, other dk's can ams it and the list goes on.

Then onto our silence. Strangulate is the worst silence in the game. It's on gcd, no other silence is, it's a 2min cd the longest of all silences, and it costs a blood rune. With the removal of blood tap, it's pathetic, you have to either be lucky enough that when the situation to strang arises you happen to have a death rune, or you have to sit on your rune twiddling your thumbs.

TLDR -
We need death's advance basline.
Revert necrotic back to 1 unholy rune, remove the casting speed debuff.
Make Strang 1min cd, off gcd and no rune cost.
Put hungering cold back in the game on a 2minute cd, it's no different to blinding light, or make remorseless winter instant.
Best of All buff unholy so we don't have to play frost.


A class having outdated mechanics doesn't mean it needs "buffed" it means it needs revamped. Also, your list of "buffs" are retarded and im glad you don't work for blizzard.


What is crazy about what he said. The only real buff was Death's Advance???
Everything else DKs had access to last expansion, and they were one of the worst represented classes in the game.
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