Guilds.... rebuilding the system

64 Night Elf Druid
465
Every day before I log into my WOW game... I stop by the forum here and read through some of the posts. Doing so have helped me greatly as I have learned alot about the game thanks to the many posters who share their experiences.

In addition to the help topics I see a great deal of posts talking about problems with "guilds". As a guild master myself... I must admit that I can relate to some of these posted issues. In overview.... here's an example of my opinion as to how I think the whole guild thing should simply be.... "rebuilt".

In my opinion..... to list just a few

(1) The fact that anyone can start up a guild at any time.... is a contributing problem. I am just one example of this issue. When I first started wow.... I was only a member for about 2 weeks tops... and on a main that didn't even have level 20 yet. I knew nothing about the game. I was still in Teldrasil with no knowledge of how to even advance to other regions.... But yet.... I had no problem starting up my very own guild. To me.... that's just ridiculous.

(2) Before starting up my own guild .... I was a member of two others. Both of which was before I reached level 10 on my main. However... upon queving for a dungeon I noticed that one must be at level 16 (I think it is) to get into the lowest level dungeon. This makes me wonder why I was able to join a guild (twice) being less than level 10. What would a guild want with such a low level character? Exactly what could I possibly do for the guild as a member when it came to dungeons and/or raids? (besides... nothing) I simply just ... took up space. Well.. there's the leveling up of the guild as I did lower level quests... I get that part... but for a level 25 guild even that would be useless. So why invite me? Personally.... I think one of the problems with guilds is.... you don't have to be at any particular level to join one. Guilds are filling up their roster with people who have little to nothing to even contribute to the guild as a whole.

(3) I'm going to try to make this one a short note. 1000 members???? What???? Are you serious???? Please share if you have even the slightest logical reason as to why a guild should be allowed to have 1000 members.

(4) Guild hopping. I have seen many forum posts about this very thing. Lower level guilds losing members to higher level guilds because they have more perks to offer the member, or are ready to start raiding immediately. Guild hopping being as easy as it is.... and not very costly to the hopper... is a major problem for lower level guilds to get up and running. I too have this problem with my guild as I compete with higher guilds. In my opinion... I think there should be a time penalty between quiting one guild.... and joining another. If I quit a guild I shouldn't be able to join another one 2 minutes later. I agree that we all should have the option to guit a guild. And I agree that we all should have the option to join another one.... but.... I don't agree with how easy it is for guild hoppers to bounce around. Maybe a member should be exalted with the guild before they can raid/dungeon with them. That would help slow down the hoppers who quit a low level guild to join a highter one 2 minutes later all because they have a raid scheduled in an hour or so. This type of activity isn't fair to lower level guilds working hard to get things up and running. At the very least.... it's very frustrating and discouraging.

...... again.... the above is just "my opinion" and not shared to insult, or upset anyone. I welcome your comments. Thanks for reading.
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3 Undead Priest
0
1. I agree, it's why raid guilds are struggling so much to fill their rosters and one of the reasons that 25 man raid guilds are dying. Too many guilds for too few raiders. But what can you do about it? Who should be the arbiter of who's allowed to set up a guild and who isn't? Also, bank guilds!

2. Those guilds were almost certainly just recruiting for the Cash Flow perk. But guilds don't exist just for raiding, what about RP guilds, for example? You can RP as well as level 1 as level 90, and who wants to level a character for a one off storyline or event? What about bank guilds?

3. Some people want to be part of huge guilds, some people want small and intimate, some people want something in between. A guild should be allowed as many members as it wants, imho. You might as well turn this around and say that a guild should be automatically disbanded if it has less than 100 members, or something equally arbitrary and random.

4. There's a penalty in the loss of guild rep. If someone leaves a guild because it doesn't suit them, or things change and they no longer want to be there, or their real life changes so they have to find a guild that runs its events at different times, why should they be prevented from joining another guild? How would guilds trial new members if they have to be exalted to raid with them? What a huge amount of wasted time that would be if things didn't work out. How would guilds PUG to get raids running, if people have to be exalted with them to raid with them? Before realm transfers and renames and the proliferation of low level guilds, guild hoppers would be blacklisted on servers after a while; and that was before guild rep and tracking sites. Perhaps we need better realm communities? And as you said yourself in point 1, guilds like yours are part of the problem, so you shouldn't be too annoyed if people are leaving them ;)
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64 Night Elf Druid
465
To Qrea......

(1) Reasonably.... I would suggest that "Blizzard" be the "arbiter" of who's allowed to set up a guild and who isn't.

(2) I agree.... there are many different reasons to startup or join a guild. And yes... some of these reasons can even apply well to all levels. However.... it's just as fair to say that mounts are just as important to someone at level 1 as it is for someone at level 25.... being that there are plenty of places for a level 1-20 to ride to as well. So why not just let all levels have a mount then? Sounds fair enough right? Why put a level band on mounts? If something like a game toy (mount) can have a level requirement.... one would think that something like a guild that can very easily become like a political type game organization/faction (persay) would definately be a part of the game one must work for to have as well.... rather than .... get 4 signatures and presto.... you're good to go.

(3) I'm sorry.... but I don't see how having an opinion in "one" direction (1000 members) suggests an automatic opinion in the reciprical (disbanded if under 100). At some point.... we all must realize that life imposes on us a limit. And that holds true even in video games. I am simply saying... when it comes to guilds... at what point is enough simply enough. For me I think 1000 members is just a tad over the top.

(4) I didn't say that they should be prevented from joining another guild. I simply suggested that there should be a "time penalty". As for the "exalted" comment.... yes... maybe that was a crazy suggestion. However.... when I think of all the Pandas I saw nearing level 90 just 3 days after the pandas came out.... makes me wonder just how much time it would be for these people to reach exalted with a new guild. I reached exalted with my guild in very little time.... and that was without even making an honest effort to do so.
Edited by Sleighter on 10/18/2012 12:33 PM PDT
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64 Night Elf Druid
465
To Sub......

Hi, and thank you for your post. And no..... i'm not exactly asking for a system where you can essentially have Blizzard pat you on the head and say "you've been playing for 4 years, now you can make a guild and you're a leader and we'll force people to follow you".

What I am asking for.... to explain... is that we understand that a guild is like an organization. A part of the game that many people take very, very serious. I have read many posts where people are upset over being kicked out of a guild.... or demoted. I have read about many frustrations about recruiting and finding serious members... time issues.... socialism, and immature behavior...etc. While at the same time I look at the game and see things like.......

(a) Level 20 needed for a mount.
(b) Level 5, and 90 gold needed for pet battles.

...... and then I wonder why someone who is a brand new player to WOW (like myself not long ago) who knew nothing about the game.... is able to startup one of these organizations and assume to be a leader in a world where they are to some degree still a transient.

I'm not suggesting at all that Blizzard force people to follow guild masters.... but rather... i'm suggesting that it shouldn't be as easy to become a guild master in the first place. There should be (imo) at least some level requirement. Which of course would of forced me to become a tad more familiar with the world within which I was back then assuming to be a leader in.
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90 Draenei Shaman
10040
10/18/2012 04:41 AMPosted by Sleighter
(3) I'm going to try to make this one a short note. 1000 members???? What???? Are you serious???? Please share if you have even the slightest logical reason as to why a guild should be allowed to have 1000 members.


There are many types of guilds, I've been in a few of them. I'm currently gm of one of those guilds that has close to 1k toons, we enjoy spreading them out thru 2 guilds so we don't reach cap (and use an addon to combine the chat and roster of the 2). So I will tell you a bit about what I love in a large guild, and my vision. I do NOT expect that you would enjoy a large guild (from your emphasis) but perhaps you could try understanding why others might prefer something different from you.

Advantages to a large guild:

Steady conversation usually 24 hours a day, or at least someone to talk to, with different chat standards than Trade. Usually someone at your level range to play with. If your wow schedule changes, you will still find guildies online, some you don't know and probably some that you do.

Formation of groups of friends that regularly like to run stuff together is fun. And occasionally those regular groups will be short someone, and will look to guildies to join in. Plus, maybe you've always mostly pve'd, but there are regular pvpers in guild who would take a noob guildie along and teach the ropes. So you try something new.

Often easy to form a spontaneous guild group for dungeons, Sha of Anger, lfr, whatever.

Just like in smaller guilds, people are generally pretty happy to help out a guildie with free or low cost chants, gems or gears. Or come help with a difficult quest. And yet it doesn't have to be the same helpful person each time.

I try to encourage a community feeling in our guild, I think of it as a whole village. Some people are very quiet in guild, but many are quite active and well known. People have to make their own "spot" in the guild, with it so large, but once they do they often find a warm group of buddies. And we have cliques, kind of, but they overlap and intermingle. So in some ways, if you want to have friends, you have to work a bit harder to get known in a large guild, but the rewards are more people to play with and an always changing group of people. But the guild itself never dies, and if you leave for a few months for some reason, the guild is still here with many of the same regulars as before.

If someone has been with us a good while and then abruptly leaves, I try to track them down and find out what happened. If there was a flare up between members, maybe I can mend fences. If the person was just ready to move on, I wish them well. I think it's the quiet people who are most likely to leave, and I'm working on ways to help ease people into this guild structure if they are quiet or shy.

TL;DR: The more the merrier.
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64 Night Elf Druid
465
To Nebliina......

Hi, first I would like to say.... great post, thank you. And second, I must admit, in all fairness, that I agree with you 100%.

However, our arguements are based on two different models. Your comments are more so encouraged from the sociological aspects of guild activities, ie; friendships, assistance, etc. And i'm more so considering the "economics" of the idea. As in... member base vs number of guilds.

As we all know... WOW is decreasing in members/subs. As a result... we have ideas like CRZ being introduced and implemented to help make each realm "appear" more busy.... and to give us more people to interact with (same idea as your comments)... each complementing the sociological aspects of the game. And of course... that is great.

But, when you have something like 100 guilds, each being permitted 1000 members, on a low pop server.... that's a total guild compacity of 100,000 members. I must wonder if the low pop servers even "have" 100,000 members to begin with.

It's easy to go online in google and see that WOW has (for example) 9-10 million subs.... and use that information as a defense for guilds being able to have as much as 1000 members each. And again... on a sociological level.... I agee.... 1000 member or even more... in my opinion .... is great. But economically.... what appears to me is that there is a "scarcity" of members to join the guilds. Each time a new guild is created.... it makes the stress of finding a new recruit that much more evident.

Luckily, I am on the server "Greymane". A high populated server. So the economic side of the arguement would perhaps be much less of an issue than would be for lower pop servers such as "Ashara".

Basically Nebliina..... my question is this. What do we consider as fair for guild membership cap in/on a game site that currently seems to be seeing a fall in subs..... and a rise in total guilds being created? (assuming of course that both suggestings I made in this paragraph are correct).

The very first thing I do (before I start trying to recruit) is roam around the region I wish to recruit from. I spend about 10-15 minutes just running around moving my cursor over players characters to see if they are already in a guild or not. I visit the main city (such as Stormwind) as well as some of the surrounding areas where people will be out leveling... just to get a sort-of-idea as to what the "free-agent" count is before I put a recruting message in the public chat. And to be honest with you.... I have alot of trouble finding people who are not yet in a guild. Non guild members, for me, are difficult to find.

I would reason that many other guilds are experiencing the same problem. Task 1... find a non guild member... thennnn task 2... try to recruit them.

If the WOW member subs continue to decrease.... some people may be discouraged into simply giving up their guild. I predict the next comprise/resolve on Blizzard's part will be perhaps crz guilds.... to allow for the again lesser quantity of people to offer the illusion that everything is still very busy.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
Sleighter your treating the number of players as static when in fact that is very far from the truth... The player base changes in the game as a whole and from Server to Server.

I agree with Sub it is a competitors market.. if you do not market your guild well and to the right sector you will not survive.

I have been playing since BC and the rate of guild sucess/failure has pretty much been unchanged. And in many cases guild have a life.. meaning they have a birth and active life and a death. Not all guilds live forever.. sometimes by design and sometimes not.

You say that players who are new to the game should not run guilds

I ran my first guild when I was just 2 months into the game... I took over my leveling guild while the guild leader was MIA due to a bad MVA. I ran the guild well so well that when he came back and said no to raiding, 15 of us who had reached max levlel broke off and started our own guild.. I was guild leader.. I ran that guild as a nice small social raiding guild until Cata when real life forced some changes and I had to step away from WoW.

Was I the perfect guild leader no... but I ran a guild people enjoyed being in and that was my definition of success. Your definition maybe something comepletely different and that is okay .

I refuse to judge someone's ability or lack of said ability based on how long they may or many not have played WoW.

Some folks get very very good at this game in a very short time.. others have played this game for 6+ yrs and are still bad at it.

I am all for letting any one who wants to form a guild, just because they form a guild does not mean I have to join it or like it.
Edited by Ssinfull on 10/18/2012 6:14 PM PDT
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1 Pandaren Monk
0
I just don't see how your suggestions would enhance the game experience for players. It sounds like your low level experiences in a guild were bad. You went thru two guilds before level 10 and you started a new guild at 20, but I'm sure with those experiences showed you a lot about what you wanted out of a guild and what you didn't want. And I'm sure it gave you appreciation for how much work goes into guilds and etc. Some of the worst people to deal with as a leader in a guild is dealing with a person who doesn't realize how much work and effort the leaders of a guild put into making it work. Making the whole thing seem easy. I would guess from your experiences that you know better than that now. And therefore you are a better guild member or leader. Therefore, I have to conclude that your suggestions, while they are made with good intention, are more detrimental to the community than the current policies.
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64 Night Elf Druid
465
To Ssinfull.....

Perhaps one of the areas we are disagreeing is in the idea that maybe our difinitions of "newbie" might be a tad different.

You said you took over a guild only 2 months after signing up as a member.... and therefore.... feel that it's ok for new members have their own guild. And that's a fair arguement.

However.... if I may point out.... on that note I too am still a new member.... being that my membership is 2 months old tomorrow. I joined WOW on August, 19, 2012.

Since my starting a guild, not quite 2 weeks into my membership, and compared to my game play now.... I would have to say that my gaming knowledge of WOW has updated considerably. In fact... I would argue that I know more about the game than there is to still learn about. When it comes to time/duration.... yes... it would be fair to consider me a newbie. But.... when it comes to knowledge of the game.... compared to what's left to learn/experience.... I can wonder just how much of a newbie I really am.

In retrospect.... I can wonder just how much of a newbie "you" yourself were..... two months into the game as well. I mean .... lets be honest. WOW isn't all THAT complex to learn that one would reasonable need 2+ years to catch on.

When I sugggest that new accounts shouldn't be able to start up their own guild. I am simply suggesting a .... reasonable learning period to allow the new player an opportunity to learn more about the game within which they hope/wish to become a leader. This is just as helpful to the new player as it is for his/her members. I didn't say this learning period has to be 2 months.... or even 1 month. Nor did I say that it must or should available to only level 40 players. But .... I will go as far as say that the "GM" position shouldn't be open to people who are their very first day in the overwhelming world of warcraft.

I'm also not saying that this should apply to new toons. But rather.... be limited to ... new accounts. If I create a new toon today.... that doesn't make me a new player. At best... i'm just using an alt. 2 months ago.... fair enough... at that then date... I was a new player... with a brand new account. And in my opinion... I think it's ridiculous how easy it was for me to startup a guild of my own... less than 2 weeks into the game..... and still knowing pretty close to nothing about the World of Warcraft.
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46 Worgen Druid
6990
Sleighter, I can find no reason why Blizzard should restrict the number of guildies a guild can hold at all. They capped it at 1000, when at one time there was no cap, because of some difficulties that came about with guild leveling. We are all different. Thus, we have different ways of enjoying the game. I run a huge guild, and keep a banking guild just for myself and my partner. I'd be bummed if I lost either one.

I don't think I made it clear earlier....I want a very large guild to replace the friendly community that I wish existed in trade chat and on the realm (each realm I've been on) as a whole. With my rose colored glasses, I imagine that early vanilla was a time when players helped each other more than not, and generally behaved in an honorable fashion. While I'm sure it wasn't actually like that (I joined late Vanilla, and didn't even have a max level toon until the end of BC) still that's the type of community I try to foster in my guild. I love the wide variety of people you get in a big guild, though I did enjoy the tight knit guilds I once belonged to. But, for me, the bigger guild is better, at this point in time. No one person is as important as in a small guild...gm included really. But the structure itself is very important. So even though people come and go, the tenor of the guild stays about the same.

10/18/2012 05:11 PMPosted by Sleighter
What do we consider as fair for guild membership cap in/on a game site that currently seems to be seeing a fall in subs..... and a rise in total guilds being created?


Honestly I don't see the relationship here. Are you proposing a member-number equalizer, so that all guilds are about the same size? Only a certain percentage of people...a fairly small one I think...actually wants to be in a really big guild. In fact we have rather a bad reputation even from before guild leveling. So on a small pop realm, there would probably only be 1 or 2 huge guilds (maybe one per faction). Or maybe none at all. To make a huge guild, there have to be enough people that want to be in one. Everyone else on the realm will join a small to medium sized guild, or none at all.

Frankly, I also see no reason to restrict when a player can make a guild, whatever the purpose of that guild. If you as gm are not providing a guild people want to belong to, they will simply leave. No harm no foul.

Let's not try to make everyone play in the same manner. Rather, let's respect each other and have fun.

edited to attempt to change the avatar displayed to my main, it isn't working--this is
Nebliina
Edited by Farrago on 10/19/2012 7:07 AM PDT
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46 Worgen Druid
6990
10/18/2012 07:14 PMPosted by Sleighter
I would argue that I know more about the game than there is to still learn about


I think you will reconsider that statement in a few months.

huh, i dont know why this posted on a baby alt, it should be from Nebliina
Edited by Farrago on 10/18/2012 7:34 PM PDT
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46 Worgen Druid
6990
10/18/2012 07:14 PMPosted by Sleighter
And in my opinion... I think it's ridiculous how easy it was for me to startup a guild of my own... less than 2 weeks into the game..... and still knowing pretty close to nothing about the World of Warcraft.


Is there any reason why a group of real life friends/family should not be able to start the game as a group, start a guild, and learn together along the way?

Nebliina here too.....the portrait to my left as I type this is of my main, Nebliina
Edited by Farrago on 10/18/2012 7:35 PM PDT
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64 Night Elf Druid
465
To Nebliina/Farrago

Hi again. May I begin by saying.... my ideas posted in the "opening post" are not etched in stone. I'm not all that comfortable with posting such comments because people tend to take your posts as suddenly ... your religion... type of thing. And can often result in not being able to get someone away from an idea that you simply offered as exactly that.... just an idea.

In my opinion... there is a problem with guilds recruiting new members. I'm not the only one to complain. I see others explaining their difficulties on other threads. Also.... I see a difficulty in even just finding a "non" guild member to invite in the first place.... which encourages my arguement that perhaps there is a "scarcity" problem.

However no... i'm not suggesting a balance idea... where all members are divided amongst the available guilds so that we get all guilds at pretty much the same number of members. lol... I agree... that would be a crazy suggestion lol.

If you don't think my opening ideas are fair ideas.... and think i'm being a bit crazy.... lol ok... fair enough. I can work with that.

Thank you again for posting... I like your posts. But lets please keep in mind that my opening comments are suggested ideas that.... I am really willing to revise and update. I am here to share... and learn. NOT dictate.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
10/18/2012 07:14 PMPosted by Sleighter
You said you took over a guild only 2 months after signing up as a member.... and therefore.... feel that it's ok for new members have their own guild. And that's a fair arguement.


No I took over the guild after 2 months of playing WoW I was only an guild member for 4 weeks
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4490
10/18/2012 07:14 PMPosted by Sleighter
When I sugggest that new accounts shouldn't be able to start up their own guild. I am simply suggesting a .... reasonable learning period to allow the new player an opportunity to learn more about the game within which they hope/wish to become a leader.


being a leader in WoW has nothing to do with playing WoW.. but more to do with leading people and understanding people.

So I still say that judging a players ability to lead a guild by how long they have played this game is incorrect and inappropriate

But all that aside who are you to decide if my brother who just started playing should not be allowed to start a guild. You can after all learn nearly as much from your failures and you can your successes.

Your basing your ideas on a false and untrue Statement that new players should not be guild leaders.

Your answer to this question is not correct.

Again a successfull guild is one run by a person who understands how to lead people and how to market his guild to the target population. If you can not do either of these things then no you are not going to be successfull in running a guild

People have problems with recruitment is not going to be solved by having them spend X amount of time playing this game.

You ask why are some guild successfull and why do some fail? is it simply too many guild and not enough players.. No it is that the guilds that fail do not successfully market themselves to the target population.

Just look at car sales why does one model /brand sell better than another.. why do you think the auto manufactuerers spend millions of dollars on Marketing and Adds.. so they know their target audience and they can create the kind of ads/Sales campaign that will best promote their product and gain sales.

Guilds are no different. Know your product, know the audience you are targetting and market your guild towards that audience
Edited by Ssinfull on 10/18/2012 9:50 PM PDT
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64 Night Elf Druid
465
To Ssinfull.....

Well wait a minute now lol.... I can easily half agree with your last comments.... that leading a group has nothing to do with how well... or how long you've played the game.... that it depends more so on whether or not you're a leader type person. I agree. If you're a good leader... then you will likely do well at leading a guild despite sucking at the game.... or not knowing the game very well.......

....... however.... sheeeesh girl lol. Lets keep in mind that running a guild in WOW involves .... errrrrrr.... well.... the game of WOW. And though you may be an excellent leader in general... not knowing the game at all can be a major liability to your members who may be looking to you for guidance and leadership in/for a world where you are still basically looking for the bathroom (sort of speak).

I'm not judging people's leadership skills. I know nothing of people's abilities or skills.... and don't assume the right.... or the ignorance of assume otherwise. What I am judging is people's knowledge of the game... and their ability to be a leader in a world they are just being introduced to.

Now if you feel that anyone, regardless of their game knowledge.... should have the option to become leaders in the game.... instead of simply spending a tad more time learning instead of assuming to be the teacher.... then fair enough. Your opinion is just as valid.

I admit that I can't offer a fair argruement against your opinion because.... you're right. It comes down to fair play.... or if you prefer.... a balanced play of policies. On that note... I must concede to your arguement.

But... at the end of the day... to me anyhow... it still seems a bit ridiculous. Sorry... but that's my opinion.
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64 Night Elf Druid
465
To Nebliina....

Hi... I took a minute to reread your comments....

I can reason with your point about large guilds and how they can replace what's missing in game chat. I too like the socialism part of the game.... or rather ... I would like it if I could actually find some lol. The chat channels are often dead... or with the type of topic/chat (we'll say) that i'm not exactly interested in. I manage to encourage a few chats... and i've even found some conversations with some great people. But more so than not... my chat screen is usually filled with... "Sleighter picked up Draenei Water".... or something like that.

Your guild sounds great. I wish you continued luck.
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3 Undead Priest
0
To Qrea......

(1) Reasonably.... I would suggest that "Blizzard" be the "arbiter" of who's allowed to set up a guild and who isn't.


What criteria would they use? Would they have the power to demote guild masters? If only a limited number of guilds were permitted, what would they do if a better potential GM came along? Replace an existing GM with them? How many more staff would Blizzard need to employ to deal with all the complaints, legitimate or not, that people would have and that Blizzard would be responsible for dealing with in this situation, and how much would it add to my monthly subscription? What makes Blizzard a better judge of who I want to play with than me?

(2) I agree.... there are many different reasons to startup or join a guild. And yes... some of these reasons can even apply well to all levels. However.... it's just as fair to say that mounts are just as important to someone at level 1 as it is for someone at level 25.... being that there are plenty of places for a level 1-20 to ride to as well. So why not just let all levels have a mount then? Sounds fair enough right? Why put a level band on mounts? If something like a game toy (mount) can have a level requirement.... one would think that something like a guild that can very easily become like a political type game organization/faction (persay) would definately be a part of the game one must work for to have as well.... rather than .... get 4 signatures and presto.... you're good to go.


Well, to develop your analogy, personally I'd be happy with riding and flying from level 1 on my alts but agree that first time levelers should have to go through the tedium of walking everywhere until level 40 (none of this level 20 slackness!). So I can see an argument for a certain amount of game experience being required before being allowed to start a guild, although I don't agree with it.

An example from another game: some guildmates and I decided to play Warhammer Online when we were bored stupid of Naxx and waiting for Ulduar to be released. Naturally, we made a guild so we could play together, have some shared identity and communicate as easily as possible, even though none of us had played the game before. Under your rules, people coming into WoW would be forbidden from doing that until they'd played for a certain period of time, and perhaps even be obliged to join an existing guild to raid if Blizzard disapproved of our potential guild leader or felt there were enough guilds already, and we had to have a certain standing within a guild to be allowed to raid like you suggested earlier. We would have left the game in a heartbeat in those circumstances.

(3) I'm sorry.... but I don't see how having an opinion in "one" direction (1000 members) suggests an automatic opinion in the reciprical (disbanded if under 100). At some point.... we all must realize that life imposes on us a limit. And that holds true even in video games. I am simply saying... when it comes to guilds... at what point is enough simply enough. For me I think 1000 members is just a tad over the top.


Both opinions are based on the idea that some random size is appropriate and other random sizes are inappropriate. Personally, like you, I wouldn't want to be in a massive guild though Nebliina makes a great case for why many people would. Personally, I wouldn't want to be a tiny guild either, except in special circumstances like our Warhammer guild. So if we're getting rid of the giant guilds because you don't see the point of them, we can get rid of the tiny guilds because I don't see the point of them. OR we could just let people play in whatever size of guild they want...

(4) I didn't say that they should be prevented from joining another guild. I simply suggested that there should be a "time penalty". As for the "exalted" comment.... yes... maybe that was a crazy suggestion. However.... when I think of all the Pandas I saw nearing level 90 just 3 days after the pandas came out.... makes me wonder just how much time it would be for these people to reach exalted with a new guild. I reached exalted with my guild in very little time.... and that was without even making an honest effort to do so.


Personally I don't like guild rep. It seems unnecessarily punitive to have all your rep wiped out if you have to join a different guild for no fault of your own - for example, changing job meaning different work hours meaning you can no longer raid with your current guild. I also don't see why such circumstances mean I should be forbidden from joining another guild until a random amount of time has passed.
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3 Undead Priest
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Had to add another post as the one above got too long :o

I apologise if I'm misreading you, but I get the impression that your argument is that because you're finding it hard to recruit, the game should be changed so that people are forced out of the big guilds they're happy in and into the small guilds they've already decided they don't want to join, and forced to stay in guilds they no longer want to be in to stop unappealing guilds losing members. And obviously I disagree with that, but if I'm reading you wrong I am sorry!
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