Fury PvE Trinkets + General gear critique

90 Tauren Warrior
11265
I've been trawling through all the "nerf Warriors!" threads for a while now and since Mists release I have seen several different opinions on the worth of various trinkets for PvE Fury.

I've seen things swing from Coren's Chromium Coaster being BiS with the Darkmoon Card due to awful haste on raid trinkets to Carbuncle coming out ahead and then recently the haste trinkets coming back into things as contenders. Also one online spreadsheet (I think Ask Mr Robot?) was also telling me that the Ghost Iron Dragonling with crit/hit/expertise was well above everything else (Not just relative to my gear either, I had the other option checked) and basically what I'm asking is what's going on with trinkets this tier? I'd like a better understanding of where my gear is going

Also if you have a spare moment and wouldn't mind having a look over my Armory any other advice would be much appreciated (I know my wrist/MH enchants aren't the best and I lack a belt buckle but as I'm not raiding properly for a while due to time constraints I'm going to hold off dumping money into them until I have VP gear for belt/bracer and prices have dropped a bit)
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90 Pandaren Warrior
5105
Ask Mr. Robot is wonky as hell for our gearset atm. No way that dragonling is really BiS.

Atm it seems that Lei Shin's Final Orders Heroic / Normal is the BiS trinket. This is followed by the Relix of Xuen, and then then the LFR Lei Shin's Final Orders. I'd personally go with the coaster after that, though a lot of people like the carbuncle (I don't).

Your armory looks fairly fine, crit's a little low because of your 450s. I also see you're using your Serpent's Eye on a hit gem, I'd consider grabbing the Darkmaster trinket from scholomance and reforging as necessary with that. Gives you a lot of breathing room while you're still lacking some gear, despite its less optimal DPS output compared to the other trinkets. It's a gear inter-dependency thing.
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90 Tauren Warrior
11265
I assumed as much with Ask Mr Robot, but it always pays to check

Thanks for the information and feedback, I have yet to see either Darkmaster or Carbuncle drop but hey that's loot for you lol I'll keep running those and see what I can do about reforging to get that serpents eye back to crit
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90 Night Elf Druid
6820
Hey I'm from Ask Mr. Robot and wanted to shed some light on the trinkets.

First of all, Mr. Robot takes all procs from trinkets and sims them for each class and spec. By doing this, he gets the average up time of each proc so he can turn that into an average stat gain. You can see a list for Fury warriors here: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/trinkets/warriorfury

Next, everything Mr. Robot does is based on math. I see the Lei Shin's final orders and Carbonic Carbuncle as the BiS trinkets. As you can see from the BiS list, it's very easy to reach the Hit/Exp caps. In fact, Mr. Robot reforges a lot of hit/exp away! So, sometimes non-hit gear is actually better, which is probably why he's choosing the Carbonic Carbuncle. http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/warriorfury

I'm guessing you thought the Ghost Iron Dragonling was BiS because it's in the #1 slot when you open the gear list. However, that isn't what Mr. Robot suggests as BiS. When you look at an absolute ranking, Mr. Robot looks at just the score of the item, not taking anything else into account (like caps, etc). He score it purely based on its stats.

When comparing the Ghost Iron Dragonling to the Carbonic Carbuncle, here's what the math looks like:

Ghost Iron Dragonling:
--- 600 Hit Cog * 5.85 stat weight = 3510
--- 600 Exp Cog * 5.85 stat weight = 3510
--- 600 Crit Cog * 4.28 stat weight = 2568
--- TOTAL SCORE: 9588

Carbonic Carbuncle:
--- 847 Str * 2.98 stat weight = 2524
--- 1039 Crit * 4.28 = 4447
--- TOTAL SCORE: 6971

Ghost Iron is the best stand-alone item in this case. However, when looking at the BiS set, knowing that Hit and Exp are easy to cap, those values turn into 0. You then put the next best cogwheels in and check the score. When doing this, the Ghost Iron Dragonling does NOT beat the Carbonic Carbuncle.

Does that make sense? I know it's a lot, and I spend all day in these numbers, so I try to help people out where I can.
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90 Worgen Warrior
0
BiS is Relic of Xuen and Heroic Lei Shin's Final Order
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90 Night Elf Druid
6820
Actually, based on stat weights, Carbonic Carbuncle is better than the relic of Xuen.

Based on the actual uptime of the proc from Relic of Xuen, you get an extra 991 strength from the proc. Add that to the 956 Str listed on the trinket and you have a total of 1947 strength. The current default stat weight for strength is 2.98. So 1947 * 2.98 = 5,802.

The Carbonic Carbuncle has a score of 6971, so it is actually better.

Now, if you want to use different stat weights - that could all change. If str is weighted higher and crit lower, the Relic of Xuen would beat out the Carbonic Carbuncle at some point.

Stat weights exist for a reason - it puts a value on each stat. These weights can be changed around to suit your specific gear level or your play style, of course. That's why Mr. Robot generates his BiS set custom to you and your settings. If you value STR more than Crit, he'll give you the right set of gear for that :)
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90 Pandaren Warrior
5105
Actually, based on stat weights, Carbonic Carbuncle is better than the relic of Xuen.

Based on the actual uptime of the proc from Relic of Xuen, you get an extra 991 strength from the proc. Add that to the 956 Str listed on the trinket and you have a total of 1947 strength. The current default stat weight for strength is 2.98. So 1947 * 2.98 = 5,802.

The Carbonic Carbuncle has a score of 6971, so it is actually better.

Now, if you want to use different stat weights - that could all change. If str is weighted higher and crit lower, the Relic of Xuen would beat out the Carbonic Carbuncle at some point.

Stat weights exist for a reason - it puts a value on each stat. These weights can be changed around to suit your specific gear level or your play style, of course. That's why Mr. Robot generates his BiS set custom to you and your settings. If you value STR more than Crit, he'll give you the right set of gear for that :)


Thanks for taking the time to explain some of this, that all makes sense. But I think it's important to note that out of all the information that you should control with Mr. Robot from the back end, stat weights is probably the least "known about" to most people, including myself. I know stat priorities, but as far as what values I should be assigning each stat, I'm pretty clueless / haven't done the math for it.

I would suggest updating the stat weights to their optimal settings then, and making it so that we aren't able to use Mr. Robot's reforge with our gear, sim our gear with a trinket that Mr. Robot says is not BiS, and get better numbers out of it.

The dragonling is listed as BiS for preraid gear, by the way.
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90 Tauren Warrior
11265
Thank you very much for explaining that Zoopercat, I have a much better understanding of how the site works now which is great
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90 Worgen Warrior
0
Actually, based on stat weights, Carbonic Carbuncle is better than the relic of Xuen.

Based on the actual uptime of the proc from Relic of Xuen, you get an extra 991 strength from the proc. Add that to the 956 Str listed on the trinket and you have a total of 1947 strength. The current default stat weight for strength is 2.98. So 1947 * 2.98 = 5,802.

The Carbonic Carbuncle has a score of 6971, so it is actually better.

Now, if you want to use different stat weights - that could all change. If str is weighted higher and crit lower, the Relic of Xuen would beat out the Carbonic Carbuncle at some point.

Stat weights exist for a reason - it puts a value on each stat. These weights can be changed around to suit your specific gear level or your play style, of course. That's why Mr. Robot generates his BiS set custom to you and your settings. If you value STR more than Crit, he'll give you the right set of gear for that :)


The problem is that the stat weights aren't what you say they are. Crit is not that much better than strength at this gear level. Rather, they are pretty damn close. Infact, they are labeled as equal on SimC when you get the stat weights. Not to mention that the weight of Crit is lower for SMF.

Also, how you're calculating the stat weight of the Dragonling is not good. That is assuming you don't already have enough hit and exp on your gear to cap (which you almost always will). Thus, those sockets became damn near useless.
Edited by Ochron on 10/26/2012 10:37 AM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
7715
Relic of Xuen is by far better.. why would they make a heroic Trinket better than the DMF trinket? BIS trinkets for warriors are the H-lei shin>xuen>Reg-Lei shin> Carbuncle> LFR-Lei Shin
:) My main is a 90 warrior. BoonerPooner. lacking in the gear department still able to pull 55k+ on a dummy with only battle shout. so, I'm fine with my logic.

What it comes down to guys, is personal preference. I personally hate the fact Lei-shin gives haste. so I'm going with xuen/coaster (however, some of you may not be able to get the coaster, because it's over.. at that point. it's Xuen/Carbuncle in my opinion)
At least until I get H-Lei shin, then it will be H-Lei shin + Xuen until the next patch :)
xuen is 1k static strength, no matter how much you guys think crit is so good. after a while crit begins to fall behind strength if you put it too far ahead on the priority list.
I've done a lot of research, gemming, enchanting, everything known to man, My dps is the best when I am using my 7.5% hit/exp with approx 25% buffed crit (giving 50% bloodthirst) and then rest str ( that is only because my gear is so low of an Ilvl (468)
other You want a decent amount of strength, or the point behind your crits is just useless.. To make your raging blows happen slightly more often, and hit 20k less. is a complete waste. Let's be logical. Thanks. BoonerPooner, Azjol-Nerub :)
My point being, I'd recommend all fury warriors, look into not only stacking crit, but going with Inscribed instead of just Smooth or just Bold.
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90 Worgen Warrior
6475
Wouldn't the only way that the Ghost Iron Dragonling is that high up is if the person in question is below the hit/exp cap? I can't imagine that you get that much of a dps boost from static crit/haste/mastery as you would from something like Carbuncle with its hawtness proc.

How is Lei Shin's BIS, by the way? I get that a proc for 3k+ strength is awesome, but isn't haste a bit of a garbage stat (unless the haste increases rage regen and white damage by THAT much)?
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90 Orc Warrior
6955
Could someone maybe help me with the itemization of my current trinkets. I have lfr lei shin/ Xuen darkmoon card / Brewfest crit trink . Look at my gear and crit atm. With xuen im over 25% crit unbuff so i assume i dont need the crit as much anymore since my enrage uptime is satisfying. But it seems basically on just a few short 10 million dmg tests that my dmg is less with the Darkmoon card equipped over the lei shin. so does the brewfest coaster because of my current crit give more or will the lei shin pull higher dps in the end.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
5105
11/01/2012 09:31 AMPosted by Patri
How is Lei Shin's BIS, by the way? I get that a proc for 3k+ strength is awesome, but isn't haste a bit of a garbage stat (unless the haste increases rage regen and white damage by THAT much)?


It does, sim it.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
11685
im changing my stat wieghts for expertise and hit to match mastery since you can reforge it all anyway to get your caps, so you need to do the maths that way
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90 Orc Warrior
12735
How is Lei Shin's BIS, by the way? I get that a proc for 3k+ strength is awesome, but isn't haste a bit of a garbage stat (unless the haste increases rage regen and white damage by THAT much)?


Haste is fairly garbage, but a) 40% of that is magically crit through the Power of Reforging and b) The uptime on the STR proc from Lei-Shi is really, really high. I think it averages out to something like 1500 passive STR on the heroic version.
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90 Human Warrior
16130
11/01/2012 09:00 AMPosted by Boonerpooner
Relic of Xuen is by far better.. why would they make a heroic Trinket better than the DMF trinket?


Because they didn't make 100% of strength DPS items with warriors in mind. Not saying it's better, but don't lead with this point, it's pretty weak. See: Hand of Justice from vanilla.
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90 Tauren Warrior
11265
Wow I didn't realise this thread was still going, but while it's here the new question for me is how does the new trinket mmo-champion is showing as planned for 5.1 fit into everything?

+1152 Str
Use: Increase Crit by 3838 for 15 sec (60 sec CD)
ilvl 496
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90 Night Elf Warrior
14755
Carbonic Carbuncle is best in slot for fury warriors. end of story.
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90 Worgen Warrior
13660
The proc on Lei Shen's lasts 20 seconds, after which there's about 25 seconds left on the ICD before it can proc again. So assuming ~5 secs of attacks before it goes up again, that's roughly 40% uptime, on top of the crit reforge. Makes it easier to see why it's BiS.

Hoping to get our first heroic Will tonight or tomorrow, so Elder Charm at the ready.... ;)
Edited by Tengaaris on 1/29/2013 5:30 PM PST
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