Nerf second wind for the love of god.

(Locked)

90 Pandaren Shaman
7495
.
90 Orc Monk
6095
I concur.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiTXGswyAls
90 Pandaren Shaman
7495
defensive stance:

-> reduce ALL DAMAGE by 25%

this is what is making warr almost unkillable combined with second wind


Did it get buffed in MoP? That's insane.

Can they use arms abilities in Defensive?
Edited by Esl on 10/23/2012 2:48 PM PDT
100 Undead Warlock
10495
Second wind by itself isn't bad. It's just that warriors also have other defenses that allow it to work its magic.
100 Undead Warrior
12140
defensive stance:

-> reduce ALL DAMAGE by 25%

this is what is making warr almost unkillable combined with second wind


Did it get buffed in MoP? That's insane.

Can they use arms abilities in Defensive?


Yes and no. Unlike previous expansions, it is much tougher for a non protection warrior to generate rage in defensive stance. So while all the actions are theoretically useable, they are far more limited by resource than previously. An arms warrior is more or less limited to what rage free attacks they have available - MS, CS procs and OP procs being the most typical in addition to rage free talents. Executes, heroic strikes, and slams - the heaviest attacks not tied to talents specifically, would be very limited - how limited depends on how slippery thier opponent is and how many opportunities the warrior has to charge to reclose any gap. A disarm in defensive stance can be very resource crippling due to delay of rage generating mortal strikes or enrage procs from MS or CS (neither of which can be used w/o a weapon).
100 Orc Warrior
9870
Just nerf Second Wind, no need to gut every other defense warriors have for the sake of a semi-powerful hot when at low health. Let's use out brains here, it's obvious second wind is too powerful and needs an ICD of some sort to keep it from having 100% uptime when low on health.
90 Night Elf Warrior
10775
So because you can't kill a warrior in PvP, you blame Second Wind. Your obvious response then is to nerf it into oblivion. You are completely ignoring the fact that it is a crucial safety net in dungeons, raids, and especially during questing. They are taking the glyph of gag order out of PvP, but that isn't enough for you? Instead of actually trying to find balance in classes, you just want blizz to nerf warriors out of existence. This is an incredibly illogical response to the problem. Find a solution that doesn't involve hacking away at warriors useful PvE abilities as well, and maybe I'll listen to a word you say. Until then, you fall in rank and file with every QQ'er in here who simply lacks patience and skill to take on a warrior. Cata warriors aren't coming back, so give up. Spend less time flipping through which warrior abilities you want blizz to remove from the game, and a little more time learning how to play your class effectively.
90 Worgen Druid
11265
i think the issue most people find annoying is that its up the moment the warrior is brought low and remains.

i mean think about it. warrior brings you low : HUZZAH I CAN NOW EXECUTE!. you bring warrior low: HUZZAH SECOND WIND!
90 Gnome Warlock
7990
Like I said before. I actually dont mind Second Wind. but....

It should not be a passive that works 100% of the time that a warrior is below 35%.

Make it either a CD, or make it have an ICD once it heals up to 35% let it not heal for another 20-30 seconds.

Makes it useful but not overpowered like it is now.

Because its not like the warrior is just going to let you stand and set up the burst needed to get him down to execute range. Nope they are going to stick on you to nullify your big damage which then makes killing a warrior all but impossible without help.
100 Draenei Shaman
5290
The problem is stacking second wind with 25% damage reduction from defensive stance.

Simple fix. When triggered in defensive stance, set it to heal 10% of maximum health per second but apply a 2 minute cooldown. So as soon as the warrior goes over 35% health, it turns off and goes on cooldown.
90 Night Elf Warrior
10775
i think the issue most people find annoying is that its up the moment the warrior is brought low and remains.

i mean think about it. warrior brings you low : HUZZAH I CAN NOW EXECUTE!. you bring warrior low: HUZZAH SECOND WIND!


The whole reason for that absolutely massive nerf right before the xpac dropped was to deal with the newly superpowered execute, so don't even try and bring that up. PvE warriors as well as PvP suffered heavily from that. I would have prefered an execute nerf, and kept my other abilities, so I could actually do damage during the other 80% of the fight. In PvE now, warriors live for that last 20. Nerfing it anymore would be ridiculous, and all just to solve a slight PvP imbalance? Think again. Taking an axe to warriors may be what you want, but that's not a practical, or by any means fair, solution.
90 Night Elf Warrior
10775
Like I said before. I actually dont mind Second Wind. but....

It should not be a passive that works 100% of the time that a warrior is below 35%.

Make it either a CD, or make it have an ICD once it heals up to 35% let it not heal for another 20-30 seconds.

Makes it useful but not overpowered like it is now.

Because its not like the warrior is just going to let you stand and set up the burst needed to get him down to execute range. Nope they are going to stick on you to nullify your big damage which then makes killing a warrior all but impossible without help.


This is at least a well though out solution, but not really practical. As soon as a warrior drops below 35, second wind kicks in. If there is a cd on it, that means all a player has to do is hit the warrior to 34ish percent, then stop dps so the warrior heals to 35, where the cooldown kicks in, then commence dps. I think the solution lies in finding ways to lower burst by way of cooldown stacking. With that taken care of, a warrior, even with heals, won't be any more of a threat than any other dps that has a healer nearby. If you're worried about him dropping into his defensive stance and utilizing that nice 25% damage reduction, then you aren't worried about him doing damage. Once in defensive, he basically becomes a turtle. He can eat a ton of damage, but deal almost none, thanks to a severely handicapped rage generation, as it should be. He can either do damage and have a little help from second wind, or do zero damage and live a long time. In any situation with more than 1v1, either scenario is easily dealt with. It all comes down to fixing burst issues across the board, but only in PvP.
90 Blood Elf Rogue
5870
2nd wind honestly shouldn't have been introduced imo.
Despite what gc thinks, you can indeed remain around the 30% mark for long long periods of time.(pve, not pvp)
I've had a warrior end up HEALING his parties warlock on Gu Cloudstrike thru Magnetic shield(not thaat sure of name,it basically stores healing and spreads it out among your allies) on heroic, when he accidentally locked heals and the other 2 dps out of the boss room.
Thats just... wtf O_o
Just one instance when it's pretty clearly broked.
90 Night Elf Warrior
10775
2nd wind honestly shouldn't have been introduced imo.
Despite what gc thinks, you can indeed remain around the 30% mark for long long periods of time.(pve, not pvp)
I've had a warrior end up HEALING his parties warlock on Gu Cloudstrike thru Magnetic shield(not thaat sure of name,it basically stores healing and spreads it out among your allies) on heroic, when he accidentally locked heals and the other 2 dps out of the boss room.
Thats just... wtf O_o
Just one instance when it's pretty clearly broked.


This is what is known as a straw man fallacy. Outliers are not the mean. Just because one, completely random and unusual situation is broken does not infer the means to that situation are broken.
90 Blood Elf Rogue
5870
2nd wind honestly shouldn't have been introduced imo.
Despite what gc thinks, you can indeed remain around the 30% mark for long long periods of time.(pve, not pvp)
I've had a warrior end up HEALING his parties warlock on Gu Cloudstrike thru Magnetic shield(not thaat sure of name,it basically stores healing and spreads it out among your allies) on heroic, when he accidentally locked heals and the other 2 dps out of the boss room.
Thats just... wtf O_o
Just one instance when it's pretty clearly broked.


This is what is known as a straw man fallacy. Outliers are not the mean. Just because one, completely random and unusual situation is broken does not infer the means to that situation are broken.

It's not just the one instance, you can actually afk farm at dreadwastes pretty much,
Right now you can just afk in most areas and not die simply due to second wind.
Frenzied or is it Enraged regeneration? seems alot more balanced, it probably heals you more then 2nd wind will... but at least you can do something about it, and it at least needs some interaction to work, and doesn't last forever.
What I'm basically trying to say is... all of gc's justifications about 2nd wind are just wrong.
It's actually really, really,really exploitable right now, but I won't go into that.
Edited by Aestheta on 10/23/2012 7:08 PM PDT
100 Night Elf Warrior
14390
okay, soooo, here's some numbers for all y'all:

Second wind as it stands heals for 3% of the warriors total health every second while they are are below 35%.

Still with me? I haven't lost any of you? Good.

Now, in my PvP gear and with buffs, I'm usually good for around 360,000 HP, give or take.

Now, at my 35% with a health pool of 360,000HP is equal to 126,000 hp. So as soon as I'm below there roughly, my second wind kicks in and heals me for 3% of my total (360,000hp) health. 3% of my total is 10,800HP every second UNTIL I'm at my 126,000 mark.

This is a very simple problem to overcome. Instead of bursting down the warrior right off the bat and having nothing left to finish the job, save the bigger hitting CD's so that when 2nd wind kicks in you have the juice to finish him or her off.

I personally have no issues finishing off a warrior with their 2nd wind going. Why? Because when it comes down to it I save my hard hitting CD's (blood bath and my trinkette) to give me the burst to finish them off.

And you can't tell me that warriors are the ONLY class that has the ability to finish off another warrior being healed by their 2nd wind, because all classes have burst abilites do give them an edge, but not all classes are played by seasoned and wisened players who know when to strike with the CD's.

So, what do you do if, Zombie Jesus forbidding, that you are one of the said players? Hmmm...well, you can always, I dunno...have a friend back you up? Range still hit hard and are the bane of the warrior class.

So knowing this and the fact that PvP is not balanced around 1V1, why wouldn't you take advantage of this and have a buddy stay with you, so if you should run into one of those big mean "Overpowered" warriors you can get around one of the easiest to get around heals in the game?

The times I've ran into warriors, we've danced for a good while, each of us popping our defensive CD's, offensive CD's and just bringing an all out frontal assault against eachother and one of us always walked the winner, not because 2nd win gave either of us an edge over the other, but simply because we used what was given to us and utilized it just that much better then the other.

So now that you all see what you have been doing wrong and can now play strategically -the idea that warriors are push overs being wiped from your mind and now need an actual effort to take down- you can all stop beating the dead horse and go about WoW lives.

Phew...I gotta go lay down.
Edited by Denndei on 10/23/2012 7:53 PM PDT
90 Human Paladin
2695
10/23/2012 02:42 PMPosted by Esl
.


It' gonna happen the problem is they are going to throw it in at the end of the PTR as to avoid "crying from warriors" now ^^ You learn these things after playing WoW for so many years!
90 Goblin Warlock
8175
I've seen two warriors duo the last boss in brewery and SM on heroic because of 2nd wind heh
90 Night Elf Monk
14435
When a warrior goes sword and board in defensive stance and is NOT prot, and is able to hold off 3-4 people with second wind alone, thats just broken.

Plus prot warriors are almost as annoying as Blood DKs or Resto Druids to take down.
Brewmasters, Ferals, and Prot pallies aren't NEARLY as bad as the above specs.
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