World of Warcraft®

If you can't beat 10-11k HPS then you have a whole different kind of problem.

Holy damn is that what it comes out too? I remember at 85 my Holy Priest hit around that in Baradin Hold. He wasn't the best geared but damn that's a lot!

Another problem that should be compared is that tier of talents and why Second Wind is always the best choice.

Enraged Regeneration
60 Rage
Instant cast 1 min cooldown
Instantly heals you for 10% of your total health, and an additional 10% over 5 sec.

Can be used while stunned. Costs no Rage if used while Enraged.

This equals 1% health every 3 seconds at a cost and also requires some imput from the warrior.

Second Wind
Whenever you are below 35% health, you regenerate 3% health per second.

Whenever you are struck by a Stun or Immobilize effect, you generate 20 Rage over 10 sec.

This effect is passive, equals 3% health every second under 35%, AND gives rage, unlike the other two talents which don't give rage or take it away unless certain conditions are met.

Impending Victory (Glyphed)
10 Rage Melee Range
Instant cast 30 sec cooldown
Instantly attack the target causing (AP * 56 / 100) damage and healing you for 20% of your maximum health.

Killing an enemy that yields experience or honor resets the cooldown of Impending Victory and causes your next Impending Victory to heal for 30% of your maximum health.

Replaces Victory Rush.

This ability requires rage to use, generates the equivalent of .66% health/sec, and requires a glyph slot in order to reach maximum efficiency.

The problem is that Second wind requires no input from the warrior, generates rage at all times if the warrior is rooted or stunned instead of taking rage away, and generates more than 3x the amount of health per second than the other talents, with no cooldown or anything of the sort.

Now if second wind required input from the warrior to activate and didn't generate rage for them, or didn't heal for so much compared to the other talents, then it would be balanced, but as it is, its too OP.

Or they could make Second Wind a carbon copy of Ardent Defender, where you have to push a button and if your killed, your instead taken to say, 20-35% hp. that would be fine as well.

Second Wind is directly as OP as your inability to do mediocre damage to burst through it. Pushing a button does not dramatically increase the amount of skill it takes to heal yourself. Sorry. Impending Victory is not at all difficult to hit. It isn't optimal in PVP because it does mediocre healing on a 30 second cooldown or requires a killing blow.

If a warrior is in defensive stance, second wind is just about all he can do. Rage generation drops through the floor in ds. If they were still able to do damage, then every warrior in the game would run raids in ds, so they would never need heals.

CS, MS and Overpower are all free for Arms. They have ZERO problem keeping up pressure in defensive stance.

Second wind is really strong not just for PvP but for PvE. I've been able to solo a lot of things I would otherwise be unable to due to how strong and fast second wind works. If I am about to die I just need a few seconds of kiting whether its through heroic leap, shockwave, piercing howl, intimidating shout, etc. and instead of being almost dead I can get back out of execute range and keep fighting.

I have never been more mobile and I love it. Uptime on a target is light years better than any other melee class it makes it hard playing rogue when you are more mobile, better survivability, better burst, and superb cc.

as some one already said its simply a matter of burst.
or being a warlock or shadow priest, those two classes chew through the second wind healing as if it wasn't even there.

Oh also I play a feral druid, I've never had trouble killing a warrior on that class in this expansion.

So yes, we have a passive survivability heal, warriors have some new tools and we aren't garbage as most people got accustomed to us being in the previous expansion.

why not...I don't know, duel and learn or read before making knee jerk posts and getting a class destroyed for an entire expansion for a second time in a row, but knowing people on the forums thats what they were hopeing for in the first place.

god forbid you had to work for your honor points.

Again, the game does not solely revolve around pvp.

Second Wind isn't the problem. It is all the defensive tools available like everyone has pointed out already. There is a reason why they made a fourth spec for Druids (Guardian). No DPS class should have such offensive output, and defensive ability whether PVE or PVP.

Second Wind isn't the problem. It is all the defensive tools available like everyone has pointed out already. There is a reason why they made a fourth spec for Druids (Guardian). No DPS class should have such offensive output, and defensive ability whether PVE or PVP.

Uh, it's one defensive ability (Defensive Stance). The only other defensive ability shared with Prot is Shield Wall, which is a disarmable 5 minute cooldown. :/

Most of the complaints are about Defensive Stance and the various talents, not Shield Wall and normal Spell Reflect.

If you can't beat 10-11k HPS then you have a whole different kind of problem.

Holy damn is that what it comes out too? I remember at 85 my Holy Priest hit around that in Baradin Hold. He wasn't the best geared but damn that's a lot!

Keep in mind that my DK autoattacks for as much health as people had in WotLK. Comparisons to old expansions really aren't relevant.

It humors me when I see posts like this about warriors. Almost every one of these nerf warriors posts made by some butthurt person who couldn't 1v1 a warrior. News flash, the game will never be balanced for 1v1. Sorry. Get over it. Nevermind that if you can't burst past second wind/d stance, you're doing it wrong. /lock thread

okay, soooo, here's some numbers for all y'all:

Second wind as it stands heals for 3% of the warriors total health every second while they are are below 35%.

Still with me? I haven't lost any of you? Good.

Now, in my PvP gear and with buffs, I'm usually good for around 360,000 HP, give or take.

Now, at my 35% with a health pool of 360,000HP is equal to 126,000 hp. So as soon as I'm below there roughly, my second wind kicks in and heals me for 3% of my total (360,000hp) health. 3% of my total is 10,800HP every second UNTIL I'm at my 126,000 mark.

If those are the numbers, then Second Wind is clearly OP, especially in comparison to similar abilities that other classes are getting. Look at it this way: 10.8k HP / sec is 32k HP / 3 sec is about 3-4 Renews running on a warrior under 35%. Or, it's probably enough healing to cover about 5-6 standard DoTs. In comparison, similar tools (Angelic Bulwark on the priest side) gives a shield worth 20% of health every 90 seconds. That's 70k health every 90 seconds. That's less than 1k health / second.

I don't think it's unreasonable for everyone to admit that Second Wind is pretty silly. I'm not sure what I'd propose as a fix though. My guess is that a Second Wind that gives a 1% HPS lasting 10 seconds with a cooldown of a minute would still be wildly popular, especially in combination with the rage generation mechanic.

Out of all the things people whine about second wind is the one you do?

I'm not even a warrior or pvp that much, but I can't even picture how by the math alone, how bad you pvpers must be that can't burst through that.

Out of all the things people whine about second wind is the one you do?

I'm not even a warrior or pvp that much, but I can't even picture how by the math alone, how bad you pvpers must be that can't burst through that.

Dumbest thing I've read all week. No competition.

If you're a troll, here's some advice... don't go full retard.

If you're not, here's some advice... seek help.

Child, I'm sorry that you are retarded, that you can't figure out how to burst through second wind. You really need to grow up and stop trying to find ways to make the game easier due to your lack of skills. Your trolling is bad, and welcome to report and ignore. Have a nice day.

It works fine for PVE so why nerf it? just adapt. for one thing its called Focus Fire, in a BG you have at least ten people in the BG so lure em back to a crowd for a smackdown.

If you can't beat 10-11k HPS then you have a whole different kind of problem.

Holy damn is that what it comes out too? I remember at 85 my Holy Priest hit around that in Baradin Hold. He wasn't the best geared but damn that's a lot!

dps numbers in pve are different then they are in pvp you spend more time using cc and maneuvering which brings down your numbers not to mention the warrior is going to be doing anything he can with his large tool box full of mobility and control tools to keep you from damaging him, sure if you look at second wind in a vacuum it's not that bad but with all the other tools warriors are broken.

Out of all the things people whine about second wind is the one you do?

I'm not even a warrior or pvp that much, but I can't even picture how by the math alone, how bad you pvpers must be that can't burst through that.

people complained about about recuperate all through cata and it healed for much less

10/25/2012 09:51 AMPosted by Delmarva

It works fine for PVE so why nerf it? just adapt. for one thing its called Focus Fire, in a BG you have at least ten people in the BG so lure em back to a crowd for a smackdown.

so it's fine that's there is class that can do lots of damage and takes multiple people to kill? isn't that exactly what everyone's complaint about rogues was in cata?

10/25/2012 10:08 AMPosted by Stabetha

people complained about about recuperate all through cata and it healed for much less

Because you could do it at any health and restealth. It does not matter if it healed for less or not. It Recuperate was op mix with other things.

35 percent life and the insane burst we have in this game, I don't know I just find the whole..Second wind needs a nerf is due to people wanting it to be easier to kill a warrior.

If you want to talk about nerfing something. How about defensive stance in pvp? That seems hella more Op than second wind.

You guys are just silly fussing about the wrong things lol

10/25/2012 10:08 AMPosted by Stabetha

people complained about about recuperate all through cata and it healed for much less

Oh, please. Recuperate was up 100% of the fight. Second Wind is up for execute phase.

10/25/2012 10:27 AMPosted by Obzen

people complained about about recuperate all through cata and it healed for much less

Oh, please. Recuperate was up 100% of the fight. Second Wind is up for execute phase.

Something that's important to keep in mind is that not all classes have an execute.