Hunter DPS worthless in raids...?

91 Human Hunter
12090
Apparently, posting anything more than blind agreement to our class being completely broken gets you called a tool on these forums. That's pretty disapointing. And shame on you Jade for posting first hand accounts that could possibly be of use to some of us out there.

Let's just go back to the status quo posts that litter these forums and make them relatively useless in terms of having any sort of discussion that resembles more than a group of gorillas beating their chests. Ready? K, I'll go.

Hunter DPS sucks. I do (insert number) but this warrior I know does (insert number.) Fix us!

What is there to discuss? No one cares about some retarded bad hunter's personal experiences . The guy has literally zero serious raid progression and his posts are random run on nonsense. This is not a debate this is an attempt to educate the hunter community about just how bad the statistics are.


I completely agree but theres never any just straight forward discussion on the subject its always "I is do this dps (Post number) Warrior does this dps (post number) Buff hunter please!" then when someone makes some sense and posts numbers people go" I do just fine you need to L2p i is top dps in guilds at 55k" Buts there is never a uniform of peopel agreeing on anything. Second i never see the forums anywhere they matter nothing on the PTR and if it is on the PTR like the forum i made the other day saying our AOE dps falls short at high Ilvls levels. I was told by 10 posts yeah I am right and then 10 more posts telling me I am a noob that apparently just picked up this class and need to L2p. Then troll posts from post 20-When ever everyone leaves.

We are never gonna be taken seriously like this and that sad we need uniform agreement on the subject not a bunch of people that have less of an idea how to play a hunter than they know how google there damn class to learn they just make !@#$ up and it makes everyone else dumber!
Edited by Fumblës on 11/19/2012 5:01 PM PST
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100 Troll Hunter
13030
11/19/2012 02:46 AMPosted by Arusi
Jademcian please stop posting on this thread you are a complete tool wasting the communities time with your wall of random text.


Haha, hello there, guardian of the hunter realm. How goes your quest today?

11/19/2012 02:46 AMPosted by Arusi
Check out this link for the love of god, it makes everything you posted sound dumb. You must have not looked at the chart in the link or just too dumb to understand it. I'm leaning more towards the latter after reading some of the nonsense you posted above. Class ranking according to the graph doesn't mean DPS% it's simply giving each class/spec a ranking number. For example, if a class in a particular fight is doing 130k dps and hunter is doing 100k the DPS gap is 30% for that fight, however the class overall rank gap according to the graph might only be 20 ranks. Grow a brain.


You mean the link that I was referencing for all my numbers, some of which I posted the math for? Just curious, but do you know how to read that chart you posted, or are you just looking at the pretty picture it makes as a list to the side and counting how many squares from the bottom your class is?

I'm not going to hold your hand through what a standard deviation is or how the 95th percentile affects the output, nor am I going to explain to you how to get a comparison between two numbers to get a percentage, because this is something you should have learned from your elementary math teachers. If you can't read or understand anything that I posted in analysis of the tool you provided, then, sir, that is a problem only you will suffer.

No one really cares about your ridiculous hunter fanboy biased opinions.
We are talking statistics and facts.


No, I appear to be the only one providing both analysis, both real statistics and experience, and having the know-how behind both to draw conclusions. You and your buddy over here are just running around screaming that we suck and anyone who says otherwise is a vice against your crusade, throwing links you claim to understand but clearly do not in an attempt to hide behind other peoples work.

You are ruining your credibility for anybody who can read English or has basic math skills. I highly suggest trying a new route if you want anyone to look at you even remotely sideways after this.


What is there to discuss? No one cares about some retarded bad hunter's personal experiences . The guy has literally zero serious raid progression and his posts are random run on nonsense. This is not a debate this is an attempt to educate the hunter community about just how bad the statistics are.


So you admit that nothing you are doing is of any use and is just you standing on a soap box trying to twist any sort of data to make us look broken. Yelling louder isn't going to get anybody to pay attention. If you want Blizzard to pay attention, be useful. Incite debate. Check out exactly how bad our statistics are, analyse them, and find out where we stand throughout the entire tier, encounter per encounter, with each quirk therein. But you can't, because I already did, and you didn't understand any of it.

Who are you again? Are you Pestilence? Maybe you should double check my raid experience. Or are you one of those cute little ten man raiders who thinks they're tough because they have a similar raid progression?

I'm not sure if you are Pestilence, but if you are, you should be aware that our US rank is literally exactly the same, and your world rank is about 115 below. Now, I don't know you, but I know I make infinitely more sense to everybody than you do.

You should be ashamed to be trying to claim to be any sort of voice for the hunter community.
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100 Troll Hunter
10335
11/19/2012 05:12 PMPosted by Jademcian
I'm not sure if you are Pestilence, but if you are, you should be aware that our US rank is literally exactly the same, and your world rank is about 115 below. Now, I don't know you, but I know I make infinitely more sense to everybody than you do.


I find it hard to think of something more insulting than insinuating that I'm that guy.

And to (once again) clarify some facts:

Overall:
Might - World 792 US 195
Resonate - World 516 US 119

In our respective raid sizes:
Might - World 229 US 72
Resonate - World 348 US 70

The only reason you're even so close is likely due to your raid days. Our days are later in the week, so our rankings suffer accordingly. We got Elegon 2 weeks ago and you only just did, and you don't have Kings down. This is the first time I've been without Tues/Wed raid days, it's kind of funny how much the days you raid affect your ranking.

But anyways, I am not the tard OP, stop talking about me.
Edited by Pestílence on 11/19/2012 6:09 PM PST
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100 Troll Hunter
13030
Good, glad it's not you. I was worried for a moment. I was squinting heavily at my screen for a while going, "Huh, really?" But couldn't decide. It's why I said I wasn't sure.

Respective raid sizes make more sense as a comparison, since you rule out the different pools in terms of participation for each raid size. They're really two different ball games entirely, even once you step into the instance.

Some people don't like raiding Tuesdays. I've never understood it, but that's how it is. Probably to miss out on patch day woes. It's common sense, really, that raiding later in the week would get you different ranks: Just the same as if you upload video later in the week, everyone has already searched and found the ones previous to.

You get an extra hour and a half a week, though, which would come in handy. Sometimes I get asked how we can stand raiding on a 0.5 schedule, but I guess I don't ever notice because I'm an alchemist.

So who is this mystery warrior, then? I thought he plugged his hunter out here somewhere.
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100 Troll Hunter
13030
I like his bow transmog. It matches his orc skin.
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70 Dwarf Shaman
5325
toooooooo much math for a game, just play and have fun, utherwise its just a chore
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Personally from my experience this tier I can keep up on most single target fights or fights with small amounts of adds.

However I feel we do need a small buff and Mages/Warlocks need a slight nerf.

Overall the main issue is that fight mechanics this tier are just not balanced for hunters and that our utility can be covered by another class which can probably cleave/multidot. Aside from that I honestly feel that a lot of hunters are suffering from l2p issues.
Edited by Potato on 11/20/2012 12:33 AM PST
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90 Worgen Hunter
9915
1) Hunter dps is indisputably low right now. The best means of comparison is perfect play, which is offered by simulation. This eliminates the problem of a person sucking at the class and saying he/she needs a buff or another doing relatively well in comparison to his own group and saying the class is fine (the later are likely playing with !@#$ty dps). Hunter simulations compared to all other classes are 3 of the 4 lowest specs in the game. Nothing more to argue about there.

2) Deal with it. If you are getting sat or are complaining because you don't do more DPS then you should probably find a raid leader who isn't so shortsighted (or stop being shortsighted yourself). Hunters have GREAT burst DPS, and this is beneficial in almost every encounter. If X add isn't dying fast enough, put your hunter on it. If the boss needs to be pushed before X happens, then grab a hunter. You might be at the bottom of the charts, but you can be at the top where it matters.

3) If anything, this post should read "MM DPS worthless in raids". BM and SV both have their places in the current tier: BM for single; SV for AoE. MM just kind of sucks at both. As my personal favorite, I really hope to see some significant MM changes--and the upcoming 80% change to CA phase isn't enough without a buff to Aimed damage. Even with the change, MM is simming 10K DPS below BM for me. That's fairly significant.

TLDR; DPS is low, burst is super high. Use it to your advantage or reroll. /sigh MM.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
11890
I dont know what you guys are talking about, I was in a 10 man the other day and outdps'd everyone and Im wearing full pvp gear. Of course this was a karazhan run and I was the main tank, but still though!!!
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90 Orc Hunter
8445
I'm simply not raiding this expansion. I find BM to be clunky and downright painful to play, and SV isn't much better with Explosive shot hitting for less than arcane.

So I decided "F it", and I'm sticking with MM and just doing LFR and dailies and whatnot.

My enjoyment has skyrocketed, but I do long for the days when we were a viable raiding class.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
7780
Did we get nerfed?

Yep!

But it’s not the first time ;-)

I started as BM and leveled up to 80 before adding MM spec. By the end of CATA I would have never imagined switching back to BM as I enjoyed the MM spec so much more. But after Pandaria dropped and a few test runs back in BM spec my DPS easily surpassed my MM even though I was bumbling through the unfamiliar/forgotten rotation.

But I have found with BM the Burst DPS can be insane and while my sustained DPS is not always at the top, it’s rarely at the bottom. For me knowing the fight and what I should be doing at any given moment to assist my guild in defeating the boss at hand is more important than whether I am top DPS.

I do plan on giving my Marksman another try once 5.1 drops as I have not lost faith in that spec just yet.

And switching into another class? Not on your life! I am a Hunter, love the class and am dammed proud of it!
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100 Troll Hunter
10335
HAY GUIZE I GOT #1 SHA AND A MAGE WAS ABOVE ME SO OUR CLASS IS PRETTYOK JUST LIEK 5% BEHIND S'ALL OK GUYS TRUST ME
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90 Night Elf Hunter
8270
It's no meaning how you all say about Hunter dps in MoP, the real world already prove it.

How many hunter you found in Raid/Random Raid, 1 or 2? That's it.

Nobody happy to play Hunter anymore after they realized their dps by themselves. Yup, except a few people, lol. If you still happy with your dps, you are that few people.

For positive thinking, at least nobody roll on your gear now, lol.

I'm the only hunter in my guild raid now (always 2-3 in past expansion) but I still don't happy and already cancelled my account. So, at least, my guild raiding has ZERO hunter soon. :P

It's like dps monk. How many you found dps monk in raid/bg?
Edited by Blueocean on 11/21/2012 5:41 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
5620
I'm the only hunter in my guild raid now (always 2-3 in past expansion) but I still don't happy and already cancelled my account. So, at least, my guild raiding has ZERO hunter soon. :P


same thing it's not fun anymore to play the class u enjoy the most if u can't help your raid members as a MM which is waaaaaaaay behind everyone .

hmmmm who should i give my gold to
maybe i will bury it with me
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100 Troll Hunter
13030
11/20/2012 06:18 PMPosted by Pestílence
HAY GUIZE I GOT #1 SHA AND A MAGE WAS ABOVE ME SO OUR CLASS IS PRETTYOK JUST LIEK 5% BEHIND S'ALL OK GUYS TRUST ME


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/259/943/694.png
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100 Troll Hunter
10335
11/21/2012 03:13 AMPosted by Jademcian
HAY GUIZE I GOT #1 SHA AND A MAGE WAS ABOVE ME SO OUR CLASS IS PRETTYOK JUST LIEK 5% BEHIND S'ALL OK GUYS TRUST ME


http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/masonry/000/259/943/694.png


NO MAN IT'S OK A ROGUE WAS ABOVE ME TOO RLY IS K

:)
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11 Troll Hunter
0
I agree with Eargy. There is way too much math and graduate degree work in raiding. Its sucked the fun out of the game.

I gear, spec, and enchant/gem my hunter correctly and up until this expansion I was doing good dps. The problem is that the rotation has gotten too damn complicated. with readiness shared between all specs, the "talent tree" cooldowns and the odd on use trinket the game has become whack a mole at best. Id rather lynx rush, dire beast, and glaive toss brackets all go passive dps increases and give readiness back to MM.

11/19/2012 08:40 PMPosted by Eargy
toooooooo much math for a game, just play and have fun, utherwise its just a chore


11/19/2012 08:40 PMPosted by Eargy
toooooooo much math for a game, just play and have fun, utherwise its just a chore
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90 Troll Hunter
6385
Soooo, is hunter's any good now? :D A raid aint a one man show, its team work. u have to play ur strong and weak points together. mages r now way OP than hunters. sure, the arcane mage friend of mine does way more DPS, fine. put him on the move he aint doin' much. for melee its hard when fight is very mobile. hunters on the other hand can apply their full might while constantly being on the move. hunter and pet can bring a combo of buffs that no other class can bring. just change pet u fill up a missing buff. Most of all as Eargy said "toooooooo much math for a game, just play and have fun, utherwise its just a chore" enjoy the game. feel free to change class if u r in desperate need, like to compete of world top ranking. but even then there will always be a class u will be calling ur own :D and always will feel free to play it.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
Necro ftw
Edited by Bullettime on 3/13/2013 12:03 PM PDT
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