Spirit / Mote of Harmony.

90 Human Paladin
6530


If crafting is so fun, let your main craft rather than your alt. Or place the professions you find most fun on the character you find the most fun.

I hope they hold off on BOA for a long long time.


You have completely missed my point, I suspect because you read the condensed version (and maybe missed some words) rather than my full post: The crafting isn't the fun part. That's my point. One toon is fun, and has profession A. One toon is less fun and has Profession B. If I want to craft from Profession B I have to play the less fun toon to get the Spirits. And when I've had LW on this toon since launch, I'm not going to drop it for a single xpac and level up another, only to change with the prevailing wind later.

11/07/2012 01:58 AMPosted by Eliarana
The difference was you could only get Primal Nethers from Heroics and they had a lockout daily. You were guaranteed a drop but you were not guaranteed a win on the roll. Here's the biggest difference of all between PN,FO,CO, and MoH. MoH can be farmed by ANYONE outside an instance for the first time. No more worrying about losing the roll and other nonsense. I've gotten more SoH since launch than I ever did Chaos Orbs in Cata, in the same amount of time.


This part is true, and I agree that it is great. But it takes control out of your hands. Those times I could play my healer for 5 instances (or however many) in a day, then spend the rest of my time soloing on another character. Now I have to spend the whole time on the character I'm going to craft on (and if that is my healer then I have to farm with my healer, which I don't particularly enjoy either). Why make crafting dictate which toon I must farm on? It never has before. And no, I don't give a damn about going back to the end of Cata, and I don't want to get 30 SoH in my mail every day. I'm perfectly happy to farm them up myself, just I'd like to do it on the toon of my choosing, then mail it to another of MY toons. Not AH it, BoA it.

One example to give of what annoyed me is that I was levelling my DK's BS (he's still 85) and see a really nice BoE 2h Axe that he can make. But it needs 2 SoH. Now, I have 3 atm on my Druid, but he can't send them to the DK. I am not giving my DK an unfair advantage by crafting it so early because the Axe is BoE and I could find a guildie to make me one or buy one off the AH. So if I can get the mats, and I can make the thing, why make me pay for it instead of letting me send the mats within my account?


Or you could just start leveling your BS in JF, and get the 2 SoH that way. I'm all for professions being self reliant but if you are getting them on a different toon, then how is that self reliant?

I have 4 toons all with profs maxed @ 600 already. All 4 of those toons farmed their own SoH. I guess I just don't undertand the issue here. it's not like you don't have the ability to gain these.

EDIT: If we are going to continue to use self reliance as a reason , then by all rights any Crafter that doesn't also have the corresponding gathering profession is not self reliant either.
Edited by Eliarana on 11/7/2012 2:57 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Priest
18740
11/06/2012 07:29 PMPosted by Kaìtlynn
As others have mentioned though, there is always a chance they'll become BoA or BoE in the future but no promises. :P


I'd like to point out that this forces people to have a dps spec. What about priests, paladins or other multirolers who might want to forgo dps that want to use spirits. =(

Since motes are not rolled on I (as a healer) NEVER get them from dungeons bc the dps always picks them up first.


http://www.wowpedia.org/Tillers

Grow your own motes! There may be some fighting involved but you should have some dps spells even as a healer. I don't know about monks but no other healer are that helpless - healy priests and paladins can kill things just fine.

ps. trash mob loot in dungeons are set to the individuals in the group. The DPS isn't taking your motes before you. If you're in random LFD, it can't be free-for-all loot. You can't trade them or roll on them. Run dungeons with friends/guildies maybe who will let only you loot.

pps. How did you get to 90 as a dungeon healer and not know things like that?
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100 Gnome Mage
14860
11/07/2012 02:45 AMPosted by Ganashal
You have completely missed my point, I suspect because you read the condensed version (and maybe missed some words) rather than my full post: The crafting isn't the fun part. That's my point. One toon is fun, and has profession A. One toon is less fun and has Profession B. If I want to craft from Profession B I have to play the less fun toon to get the Spirits. And when I've had LW on this toon since launch, I'm not going to drop it for a single xpac and level up another, only to change with the prevailing wind later.


Thank you! Yes... this! And, if you pair your toons to compliment the toons that you play with your frends you are also limited... if they are doing their miner / bs you don't want to do your miner too or you will be fighting over nodes as you quest. Next year my friend will get around to leveling her herbalist/inscriptionist enhancement shammy and that toon is paired with my skinner / LW boomkin so that will work out then... doesn't help at all now.
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90 Human Paladin
6530
All I'm hearing is GIMME GIMME GIMME. Seriously guys Obtaining the motes is easy, to claim otherwise is just plain BS. It's far easier than obtaining orbs from any other xpac.

What you are really saying is........ This toon can't use em, I don't feel like farming them on the toon that can. This is it in a nutshell. Whether or not the toon is one you enjoy playing is irrelevant. YOU coupled that toon with that profession. Why should blizzard change it's system now to benefit people who don't want to put any effort into the game at all, because that's exactly what it does. You would be able to level up and make money off of several different professions from one toons progress, that ISN'T how blizzard intended professions to be done and I'm pretty sure we all know it. Otherwise they would just allow us to have more than 2 Primary professions per toon.

This part is true, and I agree that it is great. But it takes control out of your hands. Those times I could play my healer for 5 instances (or however many) in a day, then spend the rest of my time soloing on another character. Now I have to spend the whole time on the character I'm going to craft on (and if that is my healer then I have to farm with my healer, which I don't particularly enjoy either). Why make crafting dictate which toon I must farm on? It never has before. And no, I don't give a damn about going back to the end of Cata, and I don't want to get 30 SoH in my mail every day. I'm perfectly happy to farm them up myself, just I'd like to do it on the toon of my choosing, then mail it to another of MY toons. Not AH it, BoA it.


11/07/2012 02:59 AMPosted by Magnata
You have completely missed my point, I suspect because you read the condensed version (and maybe missed some words) rather than my full post: The crafting isn't the fun part. That's my point. One toon is fun, and has profession A. One toon is less fun and has Profession B. If I want to craft from Profession B I have to play the less fun toon to get the Spirits. And when I've had LW on this toon since launch, I'm not going to drop it for a single xpac and level up another, only to change with the prevailing wind later.


Both of these quotes leave out the most important part of the entire issue. THESE crafting items are BoP at the start of EVERY expac.

This is NOT a new thing.
Edited by Eliarana on 11/7/2012 3:10 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
Or you could just start leveling your BS in JF, and get the 2 SoH that way. I'm all for professions being self reliant but if you are getting them on a different toon, then how is that self reliant?

I have 4 toons all with profs maxed @ 600 already. All 4 of those toons farmed their own SoH. I guess I just don't undertand the issue here. it's not like you don't have the ability to gain these.

EDIT: If we are going to continue to use self reliance as a reason , then by all rights any Crafter that doesn't also have the corresponding gathering profession is not self reliant either.


Self-reliant player =/= Self-reliant Character. I am the player, Ganashal is (one of) my character(s). Self-reliance isn't a reason to make them BoA (in my mind), but allowing me to farm SoH on any toon I choose isn't breaking an economy. It is allowing me freedom of choice as to which character I play when.

My example was simply what I have encountered so far, being newly returned to WoW (I mostly skipped Cata). Imagine now that I get both toons to 90 and level my LW and BS to full. Now I like playing and farming with my DK because it's more fun than soloing with my healer (Boomkin solo is balls imo...), but I want to make a LW item. Now I'm faced with a choice: Either don't make the item, or solo with my Boomkin. If that is what Blizzard want, that's what I'll have to do, but my point is, this seems to go against a number of statements they have made about their design intent, and inconsistency in design is bad, mmkay?

Ok, too tired to continue on here for now, this is my opinion. Thank you for reading, and remaining constructive :)
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
All I'm hearing is GIMME GIMME GIMME. Seriously guys Obtaining the motes is easy, to claim otherwise is just plain BS. It's far easier than obtaining orbs from any other xpac.

What you are really saying is........ This toon can't use em, I don't feel like farming them on the toon that can. This is it in a nutshell. Whether or not the toon is one you enjoy playing is irrelevant. YOU coupled that toon with that profession. Why should blizzard change it's system now to benefit people who don't want to put any effort into the game at all, because that's exactly what it does. You would be able to level up and make money off of several different professions from one toons progress, that ISN'T how blizzard intended professions to be done and I'm pretty sure we all know it. Otherwise they would just allow us to have more than 2 Primary professions per toon.


Ok so after hitting post I read this rubbish. Talk about effort; dude, it doesn't take any effort at all to be polite. Life is more than WoW, and your opinion on WoW doesn't give you some moral high ground that means you can ignore manners. Grow up.
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90 Human Paladin
6530
Or you could just start leveling your BS in JF, and get the 2 SoH that way. I'm all for professions being self reliant but if you are getting them on a different toon, then how is that self reliant?

I have 4 toons all with profs maxed @ 600 already. All 4 of those toons farmed their own SoH. I guess I just don't undertand the issue here. it's not like you don't have the ability to gain these.

EDIT: If we are going to continue to use self reliance as a reason , then by all rights any Crafter that doesn't also have the corresponding gathering profession is not self reliant either.


Self-reliant player =/= Self-reliant Character. I am the player, Ganashal is (one of) my character(s). Self-reliance isn't a reason to make them BoA (in my mind), but allowing me to farm SoH on any toon I choose isn't breaking an economy. It is allowing me freedom of choice as to which character I play when.

My example was simply what I have encountered so far, being newly returned to WoW (I mostly skipped Cata). Imagine now that I get both toons to 90 and level my LW and BS to full. Now I like playing and farming with my DK because it's more fun than soloing with my healer (Boomkin solo is balls imo...), but I want to make a LW item. Now I'm faced with a choice: Either don't make the item, or solo with my Boomkin. If that is what Blizzard want, that's what I'll have to do, but my point is, this seems to go against a number of statements they have made about their design intent, and inconsistency in design is bad, mmkay?

Ok, too tired to continue on here for now, this is my opinion. Thank you for reading, and remaining constructive :)


Self reliant profession does however imply that the toon with said profession is self reliant. There is no incosistency, LOL These have always been BoP at the start. That seems very consistent to me.
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90 Human Paladin
6530
All I'm hearing is GIMME GIMME GIMME. Seriously guys Obtaining the motes is easy, to claim otherwise is just plain BS. It's far easier than obtaining orbs from any other xpac.

What you are really saying is........ This toon can't use em, I don't feel like farming them on the toon that can. This is it in a nutshell. Whether or not the toon is one you enjoy playing is irrelevant. YOU coupled that toon with that profession. Why should blizzard change it's system now to benefit people who don't want to put any effort into the game at all, because that's exactly what it does. You would be able to level up and make money off of several different professions from one toons progress, that ISN'T how blizzard intended professions to be done and I'm pretty sure we all know it. Otherwise they would just allow us to have more than 2 Primary professions per toon.


Ok so after hitting post I read this rubbish. Talk about effort; dude, it doesn't take any effort at all to be polite. Life is more than WoW, and your opinion on WoW doesn't give you some moral high ground that means you can ignore manners. Grow up.


Read it again, and this time let it sink in. It was originally intended for Mag, but if you're getting offended it must have sparked close to the truth for you as well.

Blizzard gave us ONLY 2 Primary professions for a reason. They didn't want 1 toon to do it all. What you are asking for is EXACTLY this. for 1 toon to be able to do it all. Maybe not literally but if you make these items BoA, The other crafting materials are so easy to obtain that you would see the market flooded with items made from them, thus making them worthless. How can you not see this???

In order for the people that actually put the time in on their crafting profession to make decent amount of money, it has to be limited to being picked up by the toon with said profession.

EDIT: I'm not trying to be deliberately impolite, I'm just fighting a losing battle with people who fail to see reason and it's making me cranky. This isn't the only thread that's got people with this "less effort" mentality going on in it.

EDIT2: Also people keep in mind, Several Crafting professions have SoH work arounds for the daily limited Items they have. Taloring/JC/Alchemy have time delayed items for a reason. Your BoA SoH would ruin this mechanic. Is it nice that they gave us a way around it?? Sure! Is it intended to be bypassed off the work of ONE character for all of these profession. That would be a NO!
Edited by Eliarana on 11/7/2012 3:24 AM PST
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94 Gnome Warlock
1970
11/07/2012 03:07 AMPosted by Eliarana
All I'm hearing is GIMME GIMME GIMME.


Please explain how making spirits BoA comes out as "gimme gimme gimme".

We're the ones collecting them.

We aren't buying them.

We aren't trading for them.

We're out in the world farming for them (sometimes literally).

If we're still doing all the work to get the material, and it's still limited to just us being able to use it, how is it in any way, shape, or form a demand for handouts or freebies?
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90 Human Paladin
6530
11/07/2012 03:24 AMPosted by Bomdanil
All I'm hearing is GIMME GIMME GIMME.


Please explain how making spirits BoA comes out as "gimme gimme gimme".

We're the ones collecting them.

We aren't buying them.

We aren't trading for them.

We're out in the world farming for them (sometimes literally).

If we're still doing all the work to get the material, and it's still limited to just us being able to use it, how is it in any way, shape, or form a demand for handouts or freebies?


Read my last post Bom, I'm pretty sure I explained myself quite well there. Unless this is just gonna be another of those subject where you disagree with everyone except the OP like usual.
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94 Gnome Warlock
1970
11/07/2012 03:07 AMPosted by Eliarana
THESE crafting items are BoP at the start of EVERY expac.


No they haven't. Elemental items were never BoP before Mists, and prior to Mists early crafted epics were only reliant on some form of BoP crafting drop half the time (BC and Cataclysm). Of those times where BoP items were needed, they were drops in heroic dungeon content, rather than world drops.

To claim that the manner in which they did it in Mists is the way it's always been done is demonstratably, and completely, false.
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80 Gnome Death Knight
6090
They should be BOA....
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94 Gnome Warlock
1970
11/07/2012 03:25 AMPosted by Eliarana
Read my last post Bom, I'm pretty sure I explained myself quite well there.


You didn't actually. You just ranted out something about "but gold" (without support for said comment), which in no way defends the claim that making SoH BoA, rather than BoP, is a demand for handouts and welfare entitlements.

11/07/2012 03:25 AMPosted by Eliarana
Unless this is just gonna be another of those subject where you disagree with everyone except the OP like usual.


Usually it's just you that I wind up disagreeing with since typically the majority of the thread in question supports the OP. Outside of something like the early Cataclysm tuning I genuinely can't think of a thread where it seemed like it was me vs the rest of the thread.
Edited by Bomdanil on 11/7/2012 3:36 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
6530
THESE crafting items are BoP at the start of EVERY expac.


No they haven't. Elemental items were never BoP before Mists, and prior to Mists early crafted epics were only reliant on some form of BoP crafting drop half the time (BC and Cataclysm). Of those times where BoP items were needed, they were drops in heroic dungeon content, rather than world drops.

To claim that the manner in which they did it in Mists is the way it's always been done is demonstratably, and completely, false.


Seee There is your mistake. Equating these to Elemental items instead of the Orbs they replaced. SoH is the new Orbs, Blizzard has said this, so why is everyone still insisting on using faulty theory???

BTW almost all high end gear from EACH expansion required the BoP orbs. I don't know what game you played but I've have every profession maxed in every expansion since BC. There were very few pieces of top end gear that didn't require orbs. there is actually less gear in this expac that requires SoH than any expac required orbs.
Edited by Eliarana on 11/7/2012 3:35 AM PST
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54 Orc Warlock
5795
11/06/2012 07:20 PMPosted by Brennvin
Making them BoP is a good way of showing others that, you as a crafter, have made an awesome item for yourself. If you plan on selling the crafted item, it allows you to raise the value and demand even more of a profit.


Now that is what I have a beef with it's not that they are BoP is that the item you make from them is LFR quality... I think the Ilvl should be higher making it way more attractive to the noncrafters to buy
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90 Human Paladin
6530
11/07/2012 03:33 AMPosted by Bomdanil
Read my last post Bom, I'm pretty sure I explained myself quite well there.


You didn't actually. You just ranted out something about "but gold" (without support for said comment), which in no way defends the claim that making SoH BoA, rather than BoP, is a demand for handouts and welfare entitlements.


Yep I knew it. You want Cata Back. and will disagree with anyone except the same people asking for it.

TRY reading the damn post which you obviously didn't since GOLD was never mentioned.
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90 Human Paladin
6530
11/07/2012 03:33 AMPosted by Bomdanil
Read my last post Bom, I'm pretty sure I explained myself quite well there.


You didn't actually. You just ranted out something about "but gold" (without support for said comment), which in no way defends the claim that making SoH BoA, rather than BoP, is a demand for handouts and welfare entitlements.

Unless this is just gonna be another of those subject where you disagree with everyone except the OP like usual.


Usually it's just you that I wind up disagreeing with since typically the majority of the thread in question supports the OP. Outside of something like the early Cataclysm tuning I genuinely can't think of a thread where it seemed like it was me vs the rest of the thread.


You obviously haven't read the whole thread then since it's been about 50/50 when you don't count multiple posts by the same people.
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90 Human Paladin
6530
Making them BoP is a good way of showing others that, you as a crafter, have made an awesome item for yourself. If you plan on selling the crafted item, it allows you to raise the value and demand even more of a profit.


Now that is what I have a beef with it's not that they are BoP is that the item you make from them is LFR quality... I think the Ilvl should be higher making it way more attractive to the noncrafters to buy


Keep in mind Valor gear wasn't supposed to be in game on Launch so these items would have been the highest , easily obtainable items . I do believe they should have scaled them to 489 after including the valor gear though.
Edited by Eliarana on 11/7/2012 3:41 AM PST
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94 Gnome Warlock
1970
11/07/2012 03:33 AMPosted by Eliarana
Seee There is your mistake. Equating these to Elemental items instead of the Orbs they replaced. SoH is the new Orbs, Blizzard has said this, so why is everyone still insisting on using faulty theory???


Probably because you're wrong.

Again.

From here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/6968167/Professions_Living_in_Perfect_Harmony_-8_15_2012

By now, any experienced crafter is used to filling bags with a variety of materials such as Primal Life, Primal Fire, Primal Earth, etc. but in Mists of Pandaria, it’s all about Spirit of Harmony (in combination with the usual materials, like ore, leather, and gems). Spirit of Harmony is the result of the designers simplifying an already complex system while still keeping a wide variety of possibilities open to players. Much like with other Primals, Motes of Harmony can be combined (10 to 1) to create one Spirit of Harmony.


Guess what they don't get compared to in that blog.

11/07/2012 03:33 AMPosted by Eliarana
BTW almost all high end gear from EACH expansion required the BoP orbs.


Classic did not.

Wrath did not.

BC did.

Cataclysm did.

There are no orbs in Mists.

11/07/2012 03:33 AMPosted by Eliarana
I don't know what game you played but I've have every profession maxed in every expansion since BC.


I've been playing WoW, where BoP items were only critical for crafting in 2 expansions prior to Mists, and they were heroic dungeon drops to boot (making them readily and easily farmable in Cataclysm).
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94 Gnome Warlock
1970
11/07/2012 03:37 AMPosted by Eliarana
TRY reading the damn post which you obviously didn't since GOLD was never mentioned.


Mkay;

The other crafting materials are so easy to obtain that you would see the market flooded with items made from them, thus making them worthless.


I realise you think I'm functionally illiterate, but when people refer to the worth of an item in relation to what they can be sold for due to "flooding the market" that typically says "They're talking about gold" to me.
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