Heroic Vizier, HoF

90 Human Monk
16315

If you had ever done Sunwell (or anything hard for that matter) you would remember that it was gated and that the bosses that weren't gated were killed very quickly. Also you may recall that Vashj was nerfed before anyone killed it in BC as well because the MC mechanic was broken (just like this fight). Get a clue.


That is wrong. Several Sunwell bosses took time to kill. Muru himself took 3 days for the first kill. 3 days is a long time for a top end guild who was pumping it hours and hours. No one cried nerf for it back then.

Also, Vashj was killed before the nerf by Method using the soulstone trick plus outranging the AE fear by striders with their tanks and just straight tanking it instead of kiting. If you are going to spout facts, at least know your !@#$.

Vashj was not killed by anyone except for Nihilium (who bugged the encounter) before they removed the MC. M'uru was gated, only bosses up to Felmyst were availiable at first.

Again, get a clue.
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1 Draenei Paladin
0
11/08/2012 05:03 PMPosted by Sanctifiêd
is it really a bad thing if it takes more than one reset to kill a new boss?


For the best guilds in the world? Absolutely. Because it means that the fight is so far beyond anyone even 10 spots below them in ranking that it won't be killed for months, if ever.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
16850
11/08/2012 04:54 PMPosted by Lightstruck


Its over tuned how? Because it isn't killed in the first day or two?

Have you ever thought, hey maybe the best guilds might need to farm some more, get some more gear to get that little extra they need to kill the boss. You know similar to what the rest of the world does.

Or how about just maybe even the best of the best guilds still can learn and improve. How is having a little challenge a bad thing.

They are quick to condem when others have issues, but when they encounter a roadblock, clearly it can't be them, it must be the boss, must be blizzard, it can not possibly for the be them. It can't possibly be they don't have the gear, or in some cases the skill. Nope, clearly 1 or 2 days is all that is required in this day of age to kill a boss.

Maybe if they spent some weeks farming and fine tuning they'd kill the boss. Maybe then we'd see a real boss race and truly determine who the best of the best is.


As much as I agree with you, your thoughts are going to fall on deaf ears. For one, a lot of people just want things handed to them, even those who proclaim themselves hardcore or are in a top end guild. People like that see themselves as the top of the food chain after killing so many "easy" heroic modes. So when a fight like that comes out that actually shows them they aren't all that, they cry foul play. There are very few individuals who truly relish a challenge, and those guys are probably the ones that thought the fight was fine the way it is and didn't need any more nerfs.

Two, Blizzard agrees with these people. They refuse to let a fight be overtuned or remotely challenging, because they want these people to feel empowered or something, so they will keep playing the game and thinking they are badasses.

Three, we don't raid in guilds like those, so we definitely can't call them out on it. Afterall, them being in guilds like that simply because they have an amazing amount of time to devote to raiding, are able to hit their buttons well along with a small amount of situation awareness, or perhaps by luck/connections, means they can decide what's overtuned and what's not. What's overtuned you asked? Any fight that doesn't die in a day upon release even though you are barely geared for it apparently.

Oh, and I forgot. Four, because raiding is so much more accessible to everyone now, when someone sees that top guild X can't beat X boss, they see their guild with no chance, thus they want nerfs as well. Even though these are heroic modes and these guys should just stay in normal to begin with.

Such is WoW raiding now. Long live bosses dying in a week of release.


You speak the truth friend.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
16850


So .. acceptable rate of progression is someone is stuck on a boss for 1 or 2 days it clearly needs a nerf? Since when is being stuck on a boss for more than a day too much of a road block?

Hmm glad that attitude didn't exist in TBC, everyone would of been sunwell the day it came out.

If you had ever done Sunwell (or anything hard for that matter) you would remember that it was gated and that the bosses that weren't gated were killed very quickly. Also you may recall that Vashj was nerfed before anyone killed it in BC as well because the MC mechanic was broken (just like this fight). The only difference now is that Blizzard is able to hotfix things quickly instead of waiting for a patch to get changes in. Get a clue and go post somewhere about things that actually affect you (LFR Garalon threads maybe?).

Oh, and the top 5 or so guilds now are raiding 9+ hours a day 6 days a week and raiding on alts to make optimal group comps which is MUCH more than anyone did back then as well...


Sorry nice try with the LFR Garalon, but unlike yourself, I didn't wipe on him.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
16850
Incorrect, I've killed heroic bosses, but my guild is no where near as overall skilled as other guilds. However, I've never once come in and ask for a nerf. I believe raiding should be harder than it currently is not easier. And yes that means I would get to see less, but each boss dead would be an accomplishment, that is how endgame should work.

I'm not ashamed to admit I'm not the best, but I'm also self confident enough to know that I can handle defeat and still be proud of what i accmplished with my guild.


Dude just stop please.

I'm nowhere near as progressed as many of the people who posted here but even I'm not stupid enough to make ignorant comments like yours.

This is the first boss in the second raid of this tier. People were wiping on him with the amount of effort they were putting on H spine or H ragnaros. That is saying a lot and it's not really right for a first boss on HOF heroic.

Nobody has asked for stupid nerfs. They asked for a solid, engaging, hard encounter. Not a beat your head against the wall and wonder why an entry H mode boss is such a high wall.


So, the hardcore aren't as good as they thought they were. Now they are embarrased. Oh well.
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1 Draenei Paladin
0
So, the hardcore aren't as good as they thought they were. Now they are embarrased. Oh well.


Or maybe the boss was too hard. That can happen, you know.
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
11/08/2012 05:10 PMPosted by Marathel
So, the hardcore aren't as good as they thought they were. Now they are embarrased. Oh well.


I cannot believe posters could be that stupid but I do hope for your sake you're pretending to be this stupid.


+1
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90 Dwarf Paladin
16850
11/08/2012 05:06 PMPosted by Marathel
So? Heroics aren't for the rest of us, they are for the best of the best.


Stop.

11/08/2012 05:03 PMPosted by Braneour
That is why we have LFR that is why we have NORMAL.


So why aren't you finishing it instead of complaining here?

11/08/2012 05:03 PMPosted by Braneour
Who cares if only a small percentage will get past the first boss.


On the second raid of this tier, the ENTRY BOSS.

Get a clue on what you're talking about.

H Vizier is like putting H Chogall in place of H Halfus and on the other hand H Magmaw is as hard as H morchok was.

H Stone guard was very hard in my opinion yet from watching all these videos and wipes, it looks like an absolute cake walk compared to H Vizier.


So? Who cares if he is hard, enough time spent he will die. That is the point.
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10 Draenei Paladin
30


That is wrong. Several Sunwell bosses took time to kill. Muru himself took 3 days for the first kill. 3 days is a long time for a top end guild who was pumping it hours and hours. No one cried nerf for it back then.

Also, Vashj was killed before the nerf by Method using the soulstone trick plus outranging the AE fear by striders with their tanks and just straight tanking it instead of kiting. If you are going to spout facts, at least know your !@#$.

Vashj was not killed by anyone except for Nihilium (who bugged the encounter) before they removed the MC. M'uru was gated, only bosses up to Felmyst were availiable at first.

Again, get a clue.


I'm not counting nihilums kill because they bugged her out with "Kungen's 500k revenge crit" (which is where that came from and how Kungen blew up in popularity).

Also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYypbzs9d44

Method's kill vid prepatch. Again. know your facts before opening your mouth. Notice the soulstone on everyone and MCs happening in p3? Whoa I'm a casual but I know my facts and you don't. Moron.

Also, why does Muru being gated matter? He still took 3 days after his "release" to die, which was my point.
Edited by Lightstruck on 11/8/2012 5:17 PM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
12455
11/08/2012 05:13 PMPosted by Braneour


Stop.



So why aren't you finishing it instead of complaining here?



On the second raid of this tier, the ENTRY BOSS.

Get a clue on what you're talking about.

H Vizier is like putting H Chogall in place of H Halfus and on the other hand H Magmaw is as hard as H morchok was.

H Stone guard was very hard in my opinion yet from watching all these videos and wipes, it looks like an absolute cake walk compared to H Vizier.


So? Who cares if he is hard, enough time spent he will die. That is the point.


except it's not true and you have no idea what you're talking about
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90 Human Monk
16315


Vashj was not killed by anyone except for Nihilium (who bugged the encounter) before they removed the MC. M'uru was gated, only bosses up to Felmyst were availiable at first.

Again, get a clue.


I'm not counting nihilums kill because they bugged her out with "Kungen's 500k revenge crit" (which is where that came from and how Kungen blew up in popularity).

Also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYypbzs9d44

Method's kill vid prepatch. Again. know your facts before opening your mouth. Notice the soulstone on everyone and MCs happening in p3? Whoa I'm a casual but I know my facts and you don't. Moron.

Also, why does Muru being gated matter? He still took 3 days after his "release" to die, which was my point.

Oh my bad, I forgot soulstoning the entire raid is so much more of a legitimate strat than random other bugs and that every guild will do that, good thing we can still do it now too right?

Idiot.

M'uru was DOABLE, which I said earlier, there would not be any kills on this boss this week if not for the hotfixes, the mechanics of the fight would not allow it. Getting MC'd then walked into things that kill you while you can't control your character is not something any amount of gear or skill will ever fix.
Edited by Req on 11/8/2012 5:22 PM PST
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10 Draenei Paladin
30


I'm not counting nihilums kill because they bugged her out with "Kungen's 500k revenge crit" (which is where that came from and how Kungen blew up in popularity).

Also

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYypbzs9d44

Method's kill vid prepatch. Again. know your facts before opening your mouth. Notice the soulstone on everyone and MCs happening in p3? Whoa I'm a casual but I know my facts and you don't. Moron.

Also, why does Muru being gated matter? He still took 3 days after his "release" to die, which was my point.

Oh my bad, I forgot soulstoning the entire raid is so much more of a legitimate strat than random other bugs, good thing we can still do that now right?

Idiot.


Except it was a "legitimate" strat used for several other encounters back in vanilla and several tbc fights (looking at you gruul) but only became a true problem on vashj because everyone saw it and realized how imbalanced it was, and was what prompted Blizzard to fix it shortly after, moron.

Seriously, you are not helping your case. I would just back out of this thread if I was you.

M'uru was DOABLE, which I said earlier, there would not be any kills on this boss this week if not for the hotfixes, the mechanics of the fight would not allow it.


Who died and made you decide what was doable and what wasn't? I have no doubt in my mind after the first round of fixes that method would have still netted a kill on him.

Anytime people say something isn't doable I think back to Yogg 0. Ultimate told'd fight.

Oh and here's a fun quote just to add salt in that wound you have there.

"Here's a bit of a fun (and devastating) fact for you (and Blizzard): before the final nerf came, both Method and Paragon had 1% wipes. That is all. " taken from manaflask.com holy !@#$ more gear wouldn't have help them nerf nerf nerf.
Edited by Lightstruck on 11/8/2012 5:28 PM PST
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90 Human Monk
16315
Gruul would be hotfixed if he was out today, just like this boss (also it wasn't soulstones it was invuln pots...) "clever usage of game mechanics" isn't how Blizzard wants first kills to be gotten anymore (TM getting banned on Spiritbinder etc.). The capability wasn't there at the time as I stated earlier.

also

Getting MC'd then walked into things that kill you while you can't control your character is not something any amount of gear or skill will ever fix.
Edited by Req on 11/8/2012 5:34 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
ITT: People who really have no clue what the mechanics of Heroic Vizier are complaining about Blizzard's reaction to people who did understand the mechanics of Heroic Vizier and why the encounter needed to be changed.
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86 Undead Death Knight
10495
I'm not ashamed to admit I'm not the best, but I'm also self confident enough to know that I can handle defeat and still be proud of what i accomplished with my guild.


For how long?

Would you spend a week of 100 attempts/night wiping to a single boss with no hope of progression?
Would you spend a month of 700 attempts/week getting nowhere, dying to things outside your control (literally, MC->Attenuate Death could not be prevented), with full knowledge that no one else *anywhere* was any closer than you?

Let me put this another way. Given that there is such a thing as an impossible encounter that is in need of tuning, what would you have to see in order to prove to you that the encounter was impossible and in need of a change?
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