Help with my gear/dps

90 Dwarf Hunter
OOB
13680
I am in a raiding guild and i know that i am not doing near enough DPS that it seems to me that i am holding my guild back. I am not able to keep up. I am looking into rotation and everything else but i am not making the impact that i feel i need to... here is my logs and i really want to improve so i am asking the community for help not looking to be flamed for wanting to improve. Reguardless what you think of me or my guild.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/ktq275z63kszflkv/
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
13405
blizz ruined hunters. bench your hunter and roll a mage. seems like every hunter out there, including myself is in the same boat. if blizz doesnt fix something with this class soon it'll be obsolite.
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Right at 39k overall for a raid is what I'm seeing for 471 iLevel gear.
You're right in thinking that isn't right because it isn't.
Hunters are FAR too reliant on Cooldowns and other clunky moves like Lynx Rush, Murder of Crows, Glaive Toss, Dire Beast, etc. What blizz NEEDS to do is look into Hunter damage scaling correctly with GEAR. Hunters have NEVER scaled correctly with gear. I'm 90 and my explosive shots STILL do less damage than my AUTO SHOTS. But yet a DW Frost DK can have like 450 or less gear and his Obliterates, Frost Strikes and Howling Blasts crit for over 70k easily. Now THAT is bull.

And as the hunter above me said, the class will soon be obsolete.
Edited by Alyvia on 11/8/2012 7:22 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
6705
I felt that my hunter wasn't performing up to scratch recently as well, then I changed to BM and got myself used to it by running a lot of dungeons, doing lots of dailies, making lots of macros, and generally figuring it all out (had to start from scratch for BM, I've never played it before) and now I'm seeing a lot of improvement! Today I burst at 115k on Feng the Accursed and averaged down to 60-80k. May not sound enormous but it's a definite improvement for this girl.

As for your gear, enchants, all of that I really can't see anything that you're doing blatantly wrong, however, I can point out that your expertise is below cap, which is 7.5% Really important to cap that out or they'll dodge your attacks and such.

Our problem is that with all the added abilities in this expansion we feel way too clunky and we rely way too much on burst. Hopefully we get fixed but it's not looking good for us atm :(

Good luck with your hunter!

( Just a suggestion that has nothing to do with performance, I see you've chosen aspect of the iron hawk as your Tier 3 talent. I highly recommend exhilaration, it's a fantastic instant heal to have while raiding to help out your healers when you get into trouble. It's saved my behind a few times! Haha)
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90 Orc Hunter
11435
11/08/2012 06:17 AMPosted by Velienna
blizz ruined hunters. bench your hunter and roll a mage. seems like every hunter out there, including myself is in the same boat. if blizz doesnt fix something with this class soon it'll be obsolite.

If you have this attitude it may well be. OBVIOUSLY he is doing something wrong because he should be doing a lot more with his gear. Furthermore you have ZERO raid progression this xpac. Zero. None. Zilch. Nada.
You obviously aren't the most qualified.

Hunters are FAR too reliant on Cooldowns and other clunky moves like Lynx Rush, Murder of Crows, Glaive Toss, Dire Beast, etc. What blizz NEEDS to do is look into Hunter damage scaling correctly with GEAR. Hunters have NEVER scaled correctly with gear. I'm 90 and my explosive shots STILL do less damage than my AUTO SHOTS. But yet a DW Frost DK can have like 450 or less gear and his Obliterates, Frost Strikes and Howling Blasts crit for over 70k easily. Now THAT is bull

I can't disagree with the majority of this but I will point out that this hunter has no raid exp either.

Keep with it man, I can't help you with BM but don't let the crying get you down.
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90 Orc Hunter
11435
11/08/2012 07:47 AMPosted by Kittyminky
I highly recommend exhilaration, it's a fantastic instant heal to have while raiding to help out your healers when you get into trouble
Situational because you shouldn't be standing in stuff :P Iron Hawk is a overall better choice.

11/08/2012 07:47 AMPosted by Kittyminky
Today I burst at 115k on Feng the Accursed and averaged down to 60-80k
I don't want to sound rude but that'll be a little lower in normal Feng. Sounds like a good improvement though.

11/08/2012 07:47 AMPosted by Kittyminky
Our problem is that with all the added abilities in this expansion we feel way too clunky and we rely way too much on burst. Hopefully we get fixed but it's not looking good for us atm :(
Agreed
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
6705
Posted by Kittyminky
I highly recommend exhilaration, it's a fantastic instant heal to have while raiding to help out your healers when you get into trouble
Situational because you shouldn't be standing in stuff :P Iron Hawk is a overall better choice.


This is true but I'm not even talking about that :P
Say when the null barrier hasn't been picked up in phase one of Feng and the healers have let you in particular drop too low you chuck yourself the heal and you're fine. Or maybe someone stays in the crowd of ranged when they have wildfire spark on them and drop it right on top of you, you can quickly heal yourself up if you're down too much when you get out, stuff like that :P
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
6705
Posted by Kittyminky
Today I burst at 115k on Feng the Accursed and averaged down to 60-80k
I don't want to sound rude but that'll be a little lower in normal Feng. Sounds like a good improvement though.


Don't worry, I don't think it's rude! I'm excited that I'm seeing bigger numbers but I still don't feel right about it. Our mage in particular kicks my !@#. I see you have quite a high ilvl. Would you be able to give any insight into what the average dps you see for hunters at my average ilvl (473) is on normal Feng so that I can get some insight into how much lower I am exactly?
Edited by Kittyminky on 11/8/2012 8:10 AM PST
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90 Troll Hunter
10500
I am by no means an expert on hunters or BM spec as I primarily raid as SV but the first glance at your logs I noticed a few things.
1. Your up time on serpent sting was rather low (74%). You should be aiming for at the very least 85-90% up time.
2. You only cast rapid fire twice. Considering you spent almost 7 minutes on this fight you should have be able to use it 4 times with readiness.
3. You only cast glaive toss 4 times that whole fight. You need to cast it EVERYTIME its on CD, so that's once every 15 seconds.
4. Also looking at your armory it appears you are not expertise capped. You should definitely work on getting that to 7.5%.
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90 Orc Hunter
11435
11/08/2012 08:05 AMPosted by Kittyminky
Say when the null barrier hasn't been picked up in phase one of Feng and the healers have let you in particular drop too low you chuck yourself the heal and you're fine. Or maybe someone stays in the crowd of ranged when they have wildfire spark on them and drop it right on top of you, you can quickly heal yourself up if you're down too much when you get out, stuff like that :P

Well, its situationally good really. If my guild its rare that mistakes will happen on normal fights but I'll concede that it could be a situationally useful ability HOWEVER I feel like for normal modes that Iron Hawk or Spirit Bond are better abilities for saving healer mana. For LFR I can see it being useful however, less damage to worry about.

11/08/2012 08:09 AMPosted by Kittyminky
Don't worry, I don't think it's rude! I'm excited that I'm seeing bigger numbers but I still don't feel right about it. Our mage in particular kicks my !@#. I see you have quite a high ilvl. Would you be able to give any insight into what the average dps you see for hunters at my average ilvl (473) is on normal Feng so that I can get some insight into how much lower I am exactly?

Beast Mastery isn't really my thing to be honest-I've always loved SV and MM.
I'd be happy to try to help though. (sorry for long response time)

Femaledwarf.com Shows that over a 7.5m fight you should be looking at about 65315.87 dps.
Simcraft shows that over a 7.5 min Fight you should be looking at 64432 dps.
So over a fight of that length I would say 60+ is doing pretty good.
Because of BM hunter burst you will do more dps the shorter the fight is because your initial burst dps is so high...so you will do more dps at the start of a fight, roughly 1 min markers once BW comes off CD, and when readiness comes off CD (5 min mark) (About 2-3k more roughly)

So your DPS will in a real world situation be a lot better IF you kill the boss faster, so if other dps is lacking yours might too.

So the damage you are doing on Feng is sounds good for your gear.
I do a decent amount of dps on most fights and my mage is able to wreck me most of the time. Its frustrating, sure, but we can't do a lot as overall we aren't great on single target right now.
That being said this is assuming you are handling stuff correctly.

(25m Normal kill from best guild on my server, roughly same ilvl as you at the time)
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-edjm6ql4fsl7b1rq/sum/damageDone/?s=586&e=1153

I can't find a good 10m log because I don't really know any other hunters in 10m but if you are doing 60 plus in your gear you should be PERFECTLY fine and doing very good.
Raid bots shows the average BM Hunter doing ~ 55k on Feng.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
OOB
13680
I managed to get up to what i thought was a almost constant 45k on the 2nd boss in HoF but when the fight ended it dropped down to 36K we wiped in P2
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90 Dwarf Hunter
OOB
13680
here is the logs from last night... any advice or input helps

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/di9g5bb7d31pvyxh/
Edited by Keelmath on 11/9/2012 8:56 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
13405
@ earthroot. whether or not ive raided yet this xpac should have no bearing on what my feelings on the matter are. while i may not be the ultimate authority on hunters, it is the class i play the most. i believe when i say unless blizz fixes some things with this class it will go the way of the dodo. i may not have raided yet. am very close to it but thats besides the point. ive done enough heroic dungeons to know somethings got to change. and as for my gear, while not horrible, isnt fully gemmed and such. i can only work with what i have at the moment. believe me, enchants and gems will help us all a bit. but ultimately, gear and goodies and flawless rotation can only do so much. something needs to be fixed with this class.
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90 Draenei Hunter
13880
@ Keelmath:

Will is not a boss that we should be gauging our DPS on. There is a lot of target switching and there are other classes that will trump hunters for this fight.

In MSV Feng is probably your best gauge.

That being said, there are some things you can do to help out with Will:

If you're BM, leave your pet on the boss that will have the most debuffs on it (the guy everyone else will switch to when the titan gas happens). Downside to this is 40% of your dps is essentially gone on the adds, which is important to the fight.

Being SV might be better for this fight. The reason BM isn't so hot is because your pet is spending a lot of its time traveling from one mob to another. Going SV will alleviate this.

I see that you were MM for attempts. While not completely horrible, it is the lowest of the 3 specs at the moment.

Look at your # of shots compared to just the other hunter in your raid:

Him: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/di9g5bb7d31pvyxh/details/7/?s=11148&e=11872
You: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/di9g5bb7d31pvyxh/details/36/?s=11148&e=11872

Now look at a top parse for the fight (25N):
SV: http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu'shan_Vaults/Will_of_the_Emperor/25N/Survival_Hunter/
BM: http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu'shan_Vaults/Will_of_the_Emperor/25N/Beast%20Mastery_Hunter/
MM: http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu'shan_Vaults/Will_of_the_Emperor/25N/Marksmanship_Hunter/

Study their shots and how many they did. You need to be able to target switch and DPS quickly, utilize your cooldowns properly, and know when titan gas is coming to time everything just right. It's not about just your gear at this point, you are simply not pushing the buttons in the right order. Doing this alone will greatly increase your DPS. If an ability is off cooldown something is wrong (except in the case of Will when the gas is about to come).

Your gear is just fine for that content you have cleared. I recommend doing some more LFR to get more upgrades. Also keep doing dailies. It's free 483 gear, the same ilvl as Mogushan normal right now.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
2665
Hey guys, my ilvl is 469 at the moment and im a BM. my dps is around 37-39k is that good or not for my current ilvl?
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
5620
11/08/2012 06:17 AMPosted by Velienna
blizz ruined hunters. bench your hunter and roll a mage. seems like every hunter out there, including myself


same and my item lv is 481 , 44~ is my max !!

Mage ftw , or warlock
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90 Troll Hunter
11450
If you're in 480 gear and can't break 44k, the problem is actually that you're bad. Hunters being underpowered has nothing to do with it, because you'll probably be bad at another class too.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
5620
11/18/2012 03:45 PMPosted by Melhunt
If you're in 480 gear and can't break 44k, the problem is actually that you're bad. Hunters being underpowered has nothing to do with it, because you'll probably be bad at another class too.


i see so MM can do more in single boss at MSV ?

if that the case instead of this smart a$$ arrogant comment
you can post something with real value .
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90 Troll Hunter
11450
11/18/2012 03:57 PMPosted by Ôk
If you're in 480 gear and can't break 44k, the problem is actually that you're bad. Hunters being underpowered has nothing to do with it, because you'll probably be bad at another class too.


i see so MM can do more in single boss at MSV ?

if that the case instead of this smart a$$ arrogant comment
you can post something with real value .

Sure MM can:

http://worldoflogs.com/rankings/players/Mogu'shan_Vaults/The_Spirit_Kings/25N/Marksmanship_Hunter/

But you shouldn't play Marksman because it's worse than BM. And you really shouldn't confuse personal problems with class balance.

If you want help, there are a dozen places you can find it. If you're doing poorly, it's only your own fault.
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