is prot warrior threat generation low?

90 Pandaren Monk
6570
11/16/2012 12:26 AMPosted by Rijdot
I like how deep wounds, revenge, and seal of truth get nerfhammered within a couple weeks and keg smash hasn't even been noticed


It's been noticed. They gave it a splash damage cap.

Not much of one, though.

Just... shift our damage. Please. Everything else is so piddly. :(


At the time? Oh yes, they DID notice it.

Swift Reflexes now deals 100% more damage.
Keg Smash now deals 50% more damage and strikes all nearby targets, rather than three.


They buffed it to its current smashmouth form. Monks were having threat issues at the time.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
10115
can we just rename thunderclap kegclap and make it do more damage so i dont have to taunt my share of the trash off my monk co tank.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
11/16/2012 10:55 AMPosted by Onslaught
can we just rename thunderclap kegclap and make it do more damage so i dont have to taunt my share of the trash off my monk co tank.


Your share of the trash?

What's in there that can't be one tanked?
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90 Human Warrior
14390
thanks for all the input I'll try reforging into some hit and expertise when we go back to do more attempts on heroic stoneguard and see if theirs any difference.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
11/16/2012 10:58 AMPosted by Rijdot
can we just rename thunderclap kegclap and make it do more damage so i dont have to taunt my share of the trash off my monk co tank.


Your share of the trash?

What's in there that can't be one tanked?


My e-peen. :(

11/16/2012 06:43 PMPosted by Thadric
thanks for all the input I'll try reforging into some hit and expertise when we go back to do more attempts on heroic stoneguard and see if theirs any difference.


wait what.

Why are you ever hitting each others mobs?

Once they taunt one you need to not hit it and let it get to them
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90 Human Warrior
14390
11/16/2012 07:21 PMPosted by Ðemolition


Your share of the trash?

What's in there that can't be one tanked?


My e-peen. :(

11/16/2012 06:43 PMPosted by Thadric
thanks for all the input I'll try reforging into some hit and expertise when we go back to do more attempts on heroic stoneguard and see if theirs any difference.


wait what.

Why are you ever hitting each others mobs?

Once they taunt one you need to not hit it and let it get to them


no i tank the one so, so generally if the monk pulls it back during a swap it screws things up, though it mainly happens at the start.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
wait what.

Why are you ever hitting each others mobs?

Once they taunt one you need to not hit it and let it get to them


Like I said earlier.

PEBCAK, not gear.

11/17/2012 07:21 AMPosted by Thadric
no i tank the one so, so generally if the monk pulls it back during a swap it screws things up, though it mainly happens at the start.


Shouldn't happen at all--he shouldn't be applying any threat to a mob that he doesn't want to tank and you can't apply your threat to. Hit/exp won't undo that range issue.

Ahem.

If the warrior taunts the mob, the warrior will move to the top of the agro table. However, if the monk applies more threat, he'll return to the top of the agro table. If the mob doesn't reach the warrior in time for the fixate to fall off, then the warrior will have his threat's value debuffed in the same way that all characters at range do--this will probably cause the mob to go back to the monk.

Okay, now that we've identified the problem, what can you do?

After taunting, Heroic Throw just to make sure you have a threat lead--as well as any other ranged threat you have. Meanwhile the monk needs to -lay off- that target, and focus his threat on what he's taunting off you. The monk probably won't have the same problems even if you do screw up and attack his target, because the monk taunt buffs the target's movement speed, so it will reach him before the fixate runs out.

So we go back to the original assertion, now that we have actual context. The monk needs to stop building threat on mobs he does not desire to tank. Hit/Expertise won't even help this due to the mechanics involved--the monk just needs to stahp.

Oh yeah, the dog will also debuff any damage done to it once it gets far enough away too... so the one tank -can't- generate as much threat as the other tank to make up for accidental kegsmash...

...monk needs to not kegsmash during the swap.
Edited by Kickgruntler on 11/17/2012 7:47 AM PST
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So we go back to the original assertion, now that we have actual context. The monk needs to stop building threat on mobs he does not desire to tank. Hit/Expertise won't even help this due to the mechanics involved--the monk just needs to stahp.


Before you break your arm patting yourself on the back, that's a far cry different than changing stances to compensate for insufficient threat.
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39 Worgen Warlock
0
11/17/2012 09:04 AMPosted by Zapwidget
Before you break your arm patting yourself on the back, that's a far cry different than changing stances to compensate for insufficient threat.


I'm a little confused here. Where are we talking about stances? I thought we moved on to Stone Guard taunting.

Swapping stances is a bad thing to do there for either tank. :/
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
11/17/2012 09:16 AMPosted by Rijdot
Before you break your arm patting yourself on the back, that's a far cry different than changing stances to compensate for insufficient threat.


I'm a little confused here. Where are we talking about stances? I thought we moved on to Stone Guard taunting.

Swapping stances is a bad thing to do there for either tank. :/


I'd mentioned swapping stances for the over-agroing tank, not knowing he was refering to Stone Guard. Was thinking more along the lines of Feng.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
I'd mentioned swapping stances for the over-agroing tank, not knowing he was refering to Stone Guard. Was thinking more along the lines of Feng.


The DoT hurts just as much when you aren't tanking.

I'd really recommend "stop being bad" over stance swapping when possible.
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90 Draenei Warrior
14070
Is it even worth it to stance change any more? Since we only get the bonus rage from shield slam and revenge in defensive stance, is the rage from melee attacks worth it for more damage?
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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90 Tauren Druid
0
11/17/2012 07:53 PMPosted by Waniou
Is it even worth it to stance change any more? Since we only get the bonus rage from shield slam and revenge in defensive stance, is the rage from melee attacks worth it for more damage?

Personally, if I ever switch forms, it's not for damage. It's because my cotank does half as much damage as I do on any given fight, and on tank swaps it's so bad that my lacerate+thrash will often out-threat him and leave me at ~101-102% threat even if I back away and do nothing in bear form.

/grumble. I have no idea whether it's a good idea for prot DPS, but it's probably a good idea for prot threat if your cotank is terrible at DPS :P.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
Is it even worth it to stance change any more? Since we only get the bonus rage from shield slam and revenge in defensive stance, is the rage from melee attacks worth it for more damage?
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
us.battle.net/wow/etopic/2489160859


I haven't tried, but I'm 95.38% sure its nowhere near worth it

edit:

11/17/2012 08:17 PMPosted by Ahanss
/grumble. I have no idea whether it's a good idea for prot DPS, but it's probably a good idea for prot threat if your cotank is terrible at DPS :P.


Just tank with a monk where its impossible for that to happen because lolskillsmash
Edited by Ðemolition on 11/17/2012 8:19 PM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
0
11/17/2012 08:18 PMPosted by Ðemolition
Just tank with a monk where its impossible for that to happen because lolskillsmash

Never underestimate how badly people can suck at even the simplest rotations.

And yeah, I'm not an officer. As much as I wanted him booted after his trial run (and said as much to the officers), wanting to actually have a 2nd tank outweighed getting a good one :P.
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90 Draenei Warrior
14070
11/17/2012 08:18 PMPosted by Ðemolition
Just tank with a monk where its impossible for that to happen because lolskillsmash
Still waiting for skillroar to be hotfixed :(
-----
Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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90 Pandaren Warrior
10115
aoe shield slam sounds like lots of fun, shield smash, also i wasnt a minor glyph that turns pummel into shield bash.
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90 Goblin Death Knight
8270
Please stop advising him to change his gearing strategy. The other tank can stop pushing buttons and back off, switch stances, etc.


There was a bit more, and I agree with the rest, the off tanks should know when to throttle back. However, the re-gearing (mainly reforging) is sound advice. Hit and exp are way to low. If you aren't hitting the boss, you aren't generating threat.

Hit and exp are 2nd stats for every class until capped, to max their dps. With a raid boss, I would actually go around at least 8.5-9.5 on hit, since raid bosses are higher level than regular pve bosses, the cap is a bit higher.

It is a real balancing act, between generating threat with str and hit / exp vs being not squishy (avoidance). I usually end up reforging every time I replace one or 2 gear items, to balance out my stats again. (this isn't one of my tank toons btw. lol)

Currently, i am leveling my 4th? Protection warrior.
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12/10/2012 03:56 PMPosted by Sírüghlimore
With a raid boss, I would actually go around at least 8.5-9.5 on hit, since raid bosses are higher level than regular pve bosses, the cap is a bit higher.


Everything else you said was agreeable, but this part is just blatantly incorrect. Raid bosses are regular PvE bosses, and you eliminate your chance to miss a raid boss with +7.5% hit chance. Anything more than 7.5% is effectively wasted, unless you have attacks on the spell hit table and have no expertise.

Accuracy is further increased with Expertise reducing your chance to be dodged or parried, to the effect of +15% expertise eliminating the chance completely.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6570
12/10/2012 04:07 PMPosted by Zapwidget
With a raid boss, I would actually go around at least 8.5-9.5 on hit, since raid bosses are higher level than regular pve bosses, the cap is a bit higher.


Everything else you said was agreeable, but this part is just blatantly incorrect. Raid bosses are regular PvE bosses, and you eliminate your chance to miss a raid boss with +7.5% hit chance. Anything more than 7.5% is effectively wasted, unless you have attacks on the spell hit table and have no expertise.

Accuracy is further increased with Expertise reducing your chance to be dodged or parried, to the effect of +15% expertise eliminating the chance completely.


'Regular pve bosses' refers to things you find in heroic dungeons, I reckon.

Those are not the same.
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