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90 Night Elf Priest
0
I noticed while lvling on an alt in Wrath zones that Wrath zones seem to be built bigger than Pandaria zones. They feel more spread out and wider, maybe it is just a feeling, or maybe by meters per sqr footage wise it could be true, I don't know. Also, Pandaria questing style is a bit more streamlined and "leaned" out than the older Wrath or BC stuff. It seems to follow a more linear path than sending you all over the place for no apparent reason, which would be something I call, "5-S"... a system my work uses.

Pandaria is indeed pretty small. Valley of the Four Farts is all connected through one long road going east to west. The quests are intended to be like mini campaigns. You aren't doing these long chains of quests across the zone, you're finishing story arcs that are all a part of the meta of the zone. It's different than the past expansions. Except when you reach the Vale of Eternal Dailies then it's pretty much BC/Wrath/Cataclysm all over again.
1 Worgen Druid
0
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this. The tome worked out well enough for Wrath of the Lich King as an experiment, but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying. In addition to the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230"]upcoming reputation changes[/url] for alts (when a character on the account hits Revered), we'll consider other methods of potentially speeding up the leveling process for alts, but we don't think "allow flying" is necessarily the best answer.


No one cares what you developers 'think' we should have as players. We, the players, care what we think. Mop is a disaster because of the dev teams arrogance and pathetic attitude that "we should experience it because you spent so much time on it." thats what you are paid to do - develop things. Its our job to enjoy it. Right now a lot of players are not enjoying mop because our alts are dead in the water for many reasons. Some are:

- Levelling is the worst grind since vanilla.
- no flying mounts... Ground mounts are slow and boring. Makes levelling worse.
- rep grinds hidden behind rep grinds.

Thanks guys at blizz great job. You really know how to ruin a once great game.
Edited by Stylés on 10/27/2012 5:09 PM PDT
91 Human Paladin
17755
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this. The tome worked out well enough for Wrath of the Lich King as an experiment, but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying. In addition to the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230"]upcoming reputation changes[/url] for alts (when a character on the account hits Revered), we'll consider other methods of potentially speeding up the leveling process for alts, but we don't think "allow flying" is necessarily the best answer.

Except the whole point of having it as a BoA that requires level 90 to buy is for the people who have already "experienced" levelling in MoP anyway, its not like they're missing out on anything, it just makes the process of levelling alts slightly less tedious.
While there may be some people who might actually enjoy the levelling process, the vast majority of players just want to get it over with as quickly as possible and don't really find doing the same quests half a dozen times on different chars to be particularly interesting, assuming they even did in the first place.
93 Human Paladin
17115

but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying.


And so much of that experience is likely already been experienced once already and has lost most of its impact.
90 Night Elf Priest
0
10/27/2012 05:04 PMPosted by Ganon
Flying is a no brainer....you did the grind the way you were meant to do it....now at 90 you should be able to give your alts the perk your main didn't get.

It makes no sense to me if they wanted players to experience leveling the proper way, why did they make Outlands and Northrend flying available from the start?

To ease the burden.

All the newer players to WoW are 'never going to experience it the way it was meant to'. I mean you can't have two different philosophies here. Either Blizzard supports flying from the start or they don't. But they seem to be stuck in the middle.
100 Human Death Knight
13675
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this. The tome worked out well enough for Wrath of the Lich King as an experiment, but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying. In addition to the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230"]upcoming reputation changes[/url] for alts (when a character on the account hits Revered), we'll consider other methods of potentially speeding up the leveling process for alts, but we don't think "allow flying" is necessarily the best answer.


Consider faster! There are those of us, who hate leveling.

HATE HATE HATE IT.

I have tried to get a 2nd character to 90, the closest it has gotten is 87. I usually log off the game in absolute disgust whenever I try. As a result, I now have 9 characters 85+ I won't even play anymore.

I don't care about flying mounts before 90, just lower the exp required by like 500% please.

If I want to do the quests for "fun", it doesn't matter to me if I am 87 or 90 when I do them, it is not like there is any challenge in a single quest in MoP.

Actually, what I would really like, is to make xp from bg's worth about 10x as much, so I don't even have to go to Pandaria, I can just PvP to 90.
Edited by Demonae on 10/27/2012 5:10 PM PDT
1 Worgen Druid
0
10/27/2012 04:45 PMPosted by Infernalist
If this is about seeing the content then make a tome that is only purchasable by level 90 toons that have the Loremaster of Pandaria achievement and perhaps Explore Pandaria. That way there's proof they've seen all the content. There's no reason to force folks like that thru things multiple times, if anything it cuts down on playable content when you don't want to level your alts.


How many ways does he need to say 'no' before people hear it?


Until they change their answer to yes because a vast amount of players want it. If he keeps having to repeat himself there is a very good reason for it... People want change. And to be so stubborn as to not listen to the players and just keep sayong "no because we like it that way" is 1) the height of arrogance and 2) utterly stupid as people will continue to unsub. I have noticed however that since ghost crawler took over the dev team become more arrogant with each patch. They think they are gods because they help develop the best mmo around however they are just lucky enough to riding on the back of the original dev teams success. Tese devs wouldnt know how to run an mmo properlly if all the coding was done for them.
90 Undead Warlock
9255
This is why the blues don't respond to threads..

It turns into this:

No one cares what you developers 'think' we should have as players. We, the players, care what we think. Mop is a disaster because of the dev teams arrogance and pathetic attitude that "we should experience it because you spent so much time on it." thats what you are paid to do - develop things. Its our job to enjoy it
90 Pandaren Rogue
14030
Ok...blues have been saying this since BC.....we get it....you think we miss out on the adventure....fine.

After I get a toon lvl'd up, I don't really care about your artwork. I wanna get my other toons lvl'd up in the fastest, most efficient way possible.

I did the ground mount thing already and saw what ya'll wanted me to see. Now let me get my other toons up cuz I still gotta deal with this completely overboard rep process ya'll got going on. Buffed rep or not....it's still retarded that I have to do one one rep to unlock others and I ain't got time for all that.....Let me buy a BoA tome for a few grand and go about my business lvling my other toons.

People that like using ground mounts can keep using them.....just like they can turn off buffs in raids cuz they don't think we should have either.

I don't normally have many gripes with the new xpacs but I really don't know who ya'll were listening to when ya'll implemented some of the things that actually made it in the game. I have enjoyed it, don't get me wrong....but I sure have found myself shaking my heading and saying wtf quite a bit.

Flying is a no brainer....you did the grind the way you were meant to do it....now at 90 you should be able to give your alts the perk your main didn't get.


The landscape was nice, but the quests just didn't draw me in that much. I sincerely hope they reconsider a tome for people who have a 90
90 Draenei Shaman
8885
10/27/2012 05:09 PMPosted by Peachey
It makes no sense to me if they wanted players to experience leveling the proper way, why did they make Outlands and Northrend flying available from the start?


They didn't.

10/27/2012 05:09 PMPosted by Peachey
All the newer players to WoW are 'never going to experience it the way it was meant to'. I mean you can't have two different philosophies here. Either Blizzard supports flying from the start or they don't. But they seem to be stuck in the middle.


No they aren't. They did it in Cata, didn't like it, and so they went back. Doesn't sound "stuck in the middle" to me.

Cata was the odd man out, with regards to letting you fly at the start.
Edited by Sialanne on 10/27/2012 5:24 PM PDT
90 Undead Warlock
9255
10/27/2012 05:24 PMPosted by Sialanne
It makes no sense to me if they wanted players to experience leveling the proper way, why did they make Outlands and Northrend flying available from the start?


They didn't.

All the newer players to WoW are 'never going to experience it the way it was meant to'. I mean you can't have two different philosophies here. Either Blizzard supports flying from the start or they don't. But they seem to be stuck in the middle.


No they aren't. They did it in Cata, didn't like it, and so they went back. Doesn't sound "stuck in the middle" to me.

Cata was the odd man out, with regards to letting you fly at the start.


This. People who started in Cata are, undoubtedly, furious...but they'll get over it.
90 Worgen Druid
14010
just make it like RAF. when i do a million dailies i gain levels to grant to my alts.
90 Orc Warlock
12830
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this. The tome worked out well enough for Wrath of the Lich King as an experiment, but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying. In addition to the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230"]upcoming reputation changes[/url] for alts (when a character on the account hits Revered), we'll consider other methods of potentially speeding up the leveling process for alts, but we don't think "allow flying" is necessarily the best answer.


Here's the thing.

I don't like flying mounts. I think they're stupid and were only fitting and fun in Outland due to the setting and theme. They were a horrible thing to support in WotLK, they ruined a lot of the mystery and wonder of Classic zones when it all had to be revamped to support them, and Pandaria is absolutely not ground-mount friendly.

I would much rather be grounded and stay grounded. Please, it's time to end flying mounts with Pandaria. Keep us grounded in the future. If you INSIST on keeping up with flying mounts going forward, leave it to specific zones in the new content. Don't make everything support it. It's stupid.

But if the option to fly is there, it's annoying knowing that I'm grounded. I was cool the first time in Pandaria, but honestly I hate leveling alts because of how ridiculously unfriendly Pandaria is to ground-mounts. If the continent was exclusively for ground mounts, I'd be happy because I wouldn't be getting nagged in the back of my mind that life would be 10x easier if I could fly like my main.

Archaeologists have no way to get to the Seat of Knowledge before level 90. My warrior was leveling Archaeology throughout Pandaria as he levels, and I've had to pay people numerous times to fly me there for all of my turn-ins. No, the little dragon on the bottom level of the Shrine provides no options. You need quests to use it, archaeologists are excluded.

With the Quick and the Dead practically useless, dying in Pandaria is so painful to return to. The graveyard placement is absolutely terrible, and I feel like I'm making the Molten Core run all over again. If we didn't get 2 full years of this guild perk, I don't think I (or anyone else) would really care about the nerf. But you gave us something and took it away out of the blue. Yeah, not fun.

Then with flying mounts and without flying ghosts...? Well, sorry you died to that rare spawn guarded by fast respawning elites. Spirit rez and try again in 10 minutes!

The terrain, while beautiful, is immensely inconvenient in several zones. It takes ages to get anywhere in Jade Forest or Kun-Lai Summit without a flier because the zones are full of mountains and cliffs. It's beautiful, but knowing that some people (or my main) can fly, but my alt cannot? Really irritating. I'd be happy with such complicated terrain if it was designed exclusively for ground mounts in mind.

You either need to do a full pass on terrain in this expansion and add in more reasonable paths, less ridiculously clustered camps that block entire sections of the zone unless you blindly charge through, and give us methods to reach areas that require flying mounts without one, or give us the flying tomes. I'm not enjoying leveling grounded alts when I know other people are flying.

And stop beating around the bush and give ghost flying. Sorry, but there's absolutely no reason why you need to preserve the "feel" of the world when the player is dead. The last thing I care about when I'm running back to my body is how beautiful those falling leaves from that tree is. No. I'll look at that when I'm alive. The only thing that comes to my mind when I'm dead is, "wow I wish they'd revert this stupid guild perk change" and "where is my body?", or "hey look, I need to take rez sickness due to terrible graveyard placement".

TL;DR

-Flying mounts are stupid. Stop supporting them.
-If you are going to support them, stop restricting them.
-Quit pretending that Pandaria is ground-mount friendly. While beautiful and exciting, it's a disaster trying to go anywhere and several areas are inaccessible.
-Graveyard placement is bad and the devs are grossly underestimating how many areas you can get stuck in without ghost fliers. Nobody cares about the beauty of the game when they're dead. This isn't classic where you graveyard run to different zones. The guild perk change and the lack of ghost fliers provides absolutely nothing positive to the experience. Nothing.

[No, I'm not mad bros. I just wanted to make my stance perfectly crystal clear. :D ]
Edited by Lokron on 10/27/2012 5:33 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Rogue
14030
10/27/2012 05:29 PMPosted by Tastytoast
just make it like RAF. when i do a million dailies i gain levels to grant to my alts.


that would be so awesome but would never happen lol
90 Pandaren Shaman
12890
WTB ghost flying at 90 at least.
87 Night Elf Druid
6705
I think flying is one of those things that Blizzard secretly wishes they'd never introduced.
90 Pandaren Monk
4810
Its good to not have flying. Players want more convenience than is good for them. You would miss out on a lot (like we all did in Cata) if you were flying while leveling.
100 Human Mage
16245
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this. The tome worked out well enough for Wrath of the Lich King as an experiment, but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying. In addition to the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230"]upcoming reputation changes[/url] for alts (when a character on the account hits Revered), we'll consider other methods of potentially speeding up the leveling process for alts, but we don't think "allow flying" is necessarily the best answer.


The upcoming reputation changes for alts actually don't address the problem alts have. Those alts still have to grind dailies. THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

Make the exalted tabards BoA and give rep in dungeons so our alts can be rewarded with an alternative means of gaining rep from our mains going through the rollercoaster of dailies rep grinds.
Edited by Kyriani on 10/27/2012 5:52 PM PDT
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