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100 Troll Druid
7650
10/27/2012 01:05 PMPosted by Gumberculeez
Book of Pandaren Flying (BoA - requires level 90 to purchase) = 2400gold, PST.

Also requires Terrific Trio: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/hyjal/Mojones/achievement#92:a7383

Level three to 90, that's plenty of opportunity to see the fruits of the developers' labors. Then we can fly?
100 Blood Elf Mage
15455
There was a day where you had to go to the location of raids and instances to enter... there was a day where you had to ride a land mount everywhere. Be thankful that you get to fly at 90 and can que into instances while in the city. I'm not saying I don't want this but at the same time there is no reason to do this right now. It really does not take that long to get from 85-90 too.
90 Night Elf Priest
9705
I still don't really see the big deal about it, flying isn't necessary while leveling. I've leveled 4 characters to 90 already and probably a 5th one on the way. I hardly even notice the absence of a flying mount, besides it's more fun being on the ground.

Plus Blizz put a ton of work into Pandaria, the scenery is absolutely beautiful! Of course this is just my opinion. It shouldn't be hard to live without flying for a mere 5 levels.


I'm not sure that "I think it's pretty and didn't mind, so no one else should," is really a very good argument. In what way would it affect you if people could fly through Pandaria on their alts? What are you really worried about there? Do you think they didn't notice it on their way by the first or even second time?

When you're at home, do you make all your guests look at all the pictures on the wall in your hallway as a requirement before they can use your bathroom, even if they've already seen them before?

You can't make people appreciate things by forcing them to look at them over and over. Even if they liked it the first time, they may actually grow to dislike it on subsequent viewings or play-throughs because it's getting in the way of what they really want to do.
90 Blood Elf Mage
12945
10/27/2012 01:06 PMPosted by Infernalist
No.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
7575
I don't really understand how it is that being forced into using a ground mount keeps me from bypassing all the scenery anyway. This is a weak argument. All I see is toons on ground mounts training mobs until they get where they want to be. The mobs leash.

Am I dynamically experiencing hills? I don't see the draw. Using the logic that players shouldn't be allowed to bypass the experience, how come I can queue for dungeons and pvp? Using those I bypass the experience completely.

I like pandaria. I liked all the content before. I was still out doing quests and flying around until the day before the xpac dropped. Taking away flying didn't do that for me. Taking away flying did make me less interested in doing it again.

It is getting old losing flying at the beginning of each xpac so I can experience the content. What's the point really?


This. Ground mounts don't let me experience the world better, as Blizzard claims. In fact, it does the exact opposite. Flying mounts definitely let me experience the world in ways ground mounts can't. I can reach places that ground mounts can't. I can actually go to places at the pace I want without being discouraged by a huge mob. I can see how epic the world of warcraft is when I'm high in the sky looking down below. I can actually have fun experiencing the quests created. All ground mounts do is force me to fight the same enemies I killed on previous quests and discourage me from actually exploring the world while removing any sense of fun.

Looking at the design changes in MoP, I really can't help but feel Blizzard just nerfed the pace of everything just for the sake of keeping players subscribed longer. Nerf to JP gain, nerf to rep points, locking JP/valor gears behind reps, etc. To me, the pace of Cataclysm was perfect. Not so fast, but not too slow. Now, everything drags on, just to try to keep me subscribed longer.

Unfortunately, this is having the opposite effect and I won't resubscribe after my annual pass expires. Why spend $15 a month on something that slows me to a crawl when I can come back a few months from now and do things at my own pace for the same $15?
Edited by Buffyumyum on 10/27/2012 7:20 PM PDT
100 Pandaren Rogue
7795
I don't fully understand why we can't fly to start out, if you want to get immersed in the world there is nothing stopping you from riding a ground mount. Don't punish those who just want to get it done. I have no desire to see the same content 9 times on a ground mount.
82 Goblin Shaman
12575
This is for alts...if you have a 90 already you already experienced Pandaria from the ground - I see no reason we should have to do it again without flying. As an alternative, give us a 50% XP buff to alts - leveling through Pandaria, especially when compared with more recent MMO's (GW2 comes to mind), is boring and takes too long for 5 levels.

The vast majority of "current content" is ALWAYS @ max level - there is really no reason we should have to slog through the same quests 11 times to enjoy max level content on all of our alts - not for a game going on 8 years old.
Edited by Twixaroo on 10/27/2012 7:25 PM PDT
100 Orc Warrior
9870
If you're thinking of speeding up leveling....how about not arbitarily capping BoA's at different levels and either cap them all at the same level or allow them all to be used to 90 so long as you have a single max level character?

BoA leveling takes a lot of the irritation out of things for me, I hate the messing with upgrading gear while leveling.
5 Tauren Druid
0
Give BoA flying to people who are exalted with all Pandarian factions.
90 Pandaren Monk
13370
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this. The tome worked out well enough for Wrath of the Lich King as an experiment, but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying. In addition to the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230"]upcoming reputation changes[/url] for alts (when a character on the account hits Revered), we'll consider other methods of potentially speeding up the leveling process for alts, but we don't think "allow flying" is necessarily the best answer.

Fishing.

Fishing, fishing, fishing, fishing, fishing, fishing, fishing, fishing....

And I already know about Nat's Fishing Journal, but it requires to be "Revered" with Nat Pagle. Do you have any idea how many low-chance rare fish catches that requires?
90 Orc Warlock
12780
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this. The tome worked out well enough for Wrath of the Lich King as an experiment, but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying. In addition to the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230"]upcoming reputation changes[/url] for alts (when a character on the account hits Revered), we'll consider other methods of potentially speeding up the leveling process for alts, but we don't think "allow flying" is necessarily the best answer.


As someone that's currently leveling 9 toons to 90(89s and 88s atm already have my main at 90) I think there's not really much your missing out on.

Bottom line is I speed to 90 on my druid for realm first, and didn't pay attention to the quest text, cinematics or story line. Now I'm going through on every class but a monk and still don't care to read quest text, watch cinematics, or pay attention to the story line.

What I'm trying to say is while yes you spent time making the zones, putting in the scripting for the fighting npcs, and adding flavor to all of the zones, if someone wants to enjoy that part of it they will, flying doesn't make these things worth nothing. But now someone like me while I will admit a lot of time went into it, the fact of the matter is I'm just trying to get to max level and be done with it, and really don't care how I get there.

Which is why I'm currently doing one level at a time in each zone so every toon is leveled under full rested xp. And let me tell you, after going through a zone for the 3rd time in a day you really don't care about what's around you, by the time I've gone through the zone the 9th time I don't even have to look to see where quest objectives are, see what quests I picked up, know what item is rewarded, even know where to pick up the amber touched moth for 715k xp.

And as you pointed out flying may not be the best way to increase leveling speed, but please give me something so the best way to level my alts isn't to do the same zone and the same quests 9 times in a 3 day period. BoAs would work, a flask like the one that drops from the rare spawn, something so I don't have to do this because atm it feels like a job the only reason to do it is because its the means to an end.
100 Night Elf Warrior
8595
10/27/2012 07:13 PMPosted by Sòb
I don't fully understand why we can't fly to start out, if you want to get immersed in the world there is nothing stopping you from riding a ground mount. Don't punish those who just want to get it done. I have no desire to see the same content 9 times on a ground mount.
No, you're looking at things too literally. In game design, when you make people choose to limit them self, they will constantly know they are doing that. It can turn into something nagging at you in the back of your mind.

When you force someone to accept a limitation, they learn to adapt to that limitation.

When you give people the option to fly, knowing they can bypass everything if they choose to creates an attraction that probably isn't best for your experience, but it's too attractive to resist.

It's nowhere near as simple as you make it out to be. But as long as you ignore things like the context I described, it's going to seem an easy thing to you that makes the people you disagree with into silly people trying to force you to do things.
Edited by Elrith on 10/27/2012 7:28 PM PDT
Just as someone who has farming toons that are still under 90, I'd appreciate the chance to buy them Tomes to use. I'm not leveling the toons as such, I just use them to farm though they do gain some experience that way.

For someone who levels via dungeon or BG, restricting them to the ground does nothing - but then neither does allowing them to fly.

For those who level via the quest content in the Pandaria zones, be honest. How much time do you actually spend mounted? You can't kill while mounted. The majority of quest items you can't collect while mounted. You don't have to fly great distances to get to the next mob to kill in most cases. The quest hubs aren't massively far apart unless you're switching zones and in most cases, you're set up with the FPs you need to get there.

Is having flying really going to speed up your leveling that much? No, it's not. You'll shave off a few seconds here and there. Maybe a minute if you're changing zones. That's about it.

The freedom to fly really doesn't make a difference unless you mine/herb or are 90 and trying to get to the daily quest hubs.

I am in favor of making it an option for those who prefer it but I honestly don't think it makes as big an impact as many are trying to make it sound. But the illusion of freedom does make the game less a burden and therefore more fun for many. Those who like to explore on the ground will do it anyway. Those who don't just end up unhappy.
Edited by Joynal on 10/27/2012 7:34 PM PDT
100 Orc Death Knight
20035
Blizzard, I'd like to suggest allowing players to trade in old heirlooms and some gold for a version of the heirloom that levels up to 90 instead of 80/85. That way you can add another gold sink in, people who want to level faster can, people who don't aren't affected and heirlooms get to be useful a bit longer.
90 Orc Warlock
12780
For those who level via the quest content in the Pandaria zones, be honest. How much time do you actually spend mounted? You can't kill while mounted. The majority of quest items you can't collect while mounts. You don't have to fly great distances to get to the next mob to kill in most cases. The quest hubs aren't massively far apart unless you're switching zones.


The single biggest factor in how quickly you level isn't how many mobs you pull at once or how fast you kill them, its how fast you move between objectives. Being able to mount up, fly the the back of the area where your quests are, work back through to the front, mount and fly/hearth back to the quest hub saves you a huge amount of time.
90 Human Warrior
0
10/27/2012 03:38 PMPosted by Crithto
We're not sure if we'll be doing this. The tome worked out well enough for Wrath of the Lich King as an experiment, but so much of the experience we spent a lot of time and effort shaping in Pandaria is negated by flying. In addition to the [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6794350230"]upcoming reputation changes[/url] for alts (when a character on the account hits Revered), we'll consider other methods of potentially speeding up the leveling process for alts, but we don't think "allow flying" is necessarily the best answer.

The thing your forgetting is, people play your game, and they want to have options. If they want their alts to fly instead of travel on the ground, why not let them? It's your game, but the constant restrictions and number crunching make it seem like you guys forget that PEOPLE play your games, not computers.
92 Troll Rogue
12600
I don't understand why people are against this? It doesn't affect you if you don't want to use it. I can buy it, fly around and get my alts finally leveled and actually play them. They're just sitting there gathering dust.

I'm really getting tired of Blizzard telling me how to have fun.
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