Bonus roll issue.

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90 Undead Hunter
15045
I got this belt I'm wearing from the first boss, the first week LFR opened in MoP. Haven't got anything else since even with a dozen or so extra charm rolls. I did however get my first normal mode loot this week so that helps. That's a month of LFR with 1 loot. I'm going to be struggling to make the next LFR ilvl check whenever its released.

I get that rng is rng, but after doing a lot of pet battles, I thought LFR losing streaks maybe could act like trying to capture a pet. When you try to trap a pet, if it fails, you gain a 25% chance on your next attempt. This continues until you successfully trap your pet.

So in LFR terms, maybe every time you don't get loot, you gain say a 2% better chance next time?

Another way I look at LFR loot is like casino tables. House is gonna win one way or another but if they never let you win a single hand, a single pull of the slot here or there you probably aren't coming back. House makes a lot more when they give people a little hope here and there.
90 Undead Death Knight
11280
Really? I actually still have a ticket open since I burned a coin and received dps tier legs :<. Do you think there is any recourse for getting the item swapped for the proper spec or getting my coin back?

11/09/2012 03:28 PMPosted by Zarhym
I do however wish that Sha (and Galleon?) random loot rolls would give you gear based on your spec instead of any spec from your class.

They're supposed to. We just double-checked with the developers on this, as we've seen conflicting information go out to players. If you get loot from world bosses that isn't for your spec, that's a bug and the item flagging needs to be fixed. Be sure to report specific items on the Bug Report forum.

Apologies for any confusion in this regard.
Edited by Redslav on 11/9/2012 4:08 PM PST
11/09/2012 03:28 PMPosted by Zarhym
I do however wish that Sha (and Galleon?) random loot rolls would give you gear based on your spec instead of any spec from your class.
They're supposed to. We just double-checked with the developers on this, as we've seen conflicting information go out to players. If you get loot from world bosses that isn't for your spec, that's a bug and the item flagging needs to be fixed. Be sure to report specific items on the Bug Report forum.

Apologies for any confusion in this regard.
If we got loot not for our spec and report this as a bug will we get a the correct loot example i have paladin tanking legs from Sha but i was ret reporting that will my legs get turned into the correct ones? If not then idk if i care enough to put in a ticket
90 Human Warlock
17825
Zarhym, could you possibly answer a question I have in reguards to how the loot system works - in terms of both the LFR system and the 'bonus roll' from golden coin usage...

Does it use a single or dual roll?

For example....

DOes it go

2.5% item A
2.5% item B
95% gold

or does it go

95% chance to get gold
5% chance to get item
leading to
50% chance to get Item A if you rolled an Item
50% chance to get Item B if you rolled an Item.

And either way, is the odds to get loot in any way proportional to the amount of loot that exists for you on the bosses loot table.

So for example, if Boss A drops 1 item your spec can use, and Boss B drops 3 items your spec can use... Do you have the same chance of seeing loot from both bosses or does Boss B drop loot 3 times more often (so that the chance of you getting any specific item is the same).

It's very important to know for how to best spend my gold coins in particular... do I want to

A) use coins on bosses with only 1 item thus ensuring I get the item I want
B) use coins on bosses with multiple items, thus increasing the chance of getting a item at all.
Edited by Thanatosia on 11/9/2012 4:07 PM PST
90 Human Warlock
17825
Also,..... a suggestion to the loot system...

When you guys implimented Nightfall as the primary way warlocks recover shards, you did something brilliant behind the scenes. YOu wanted us to get around a 10% chacne to proc a shard every time Corruption dealt damage, but you dind't want to hose the spec with too much RNG and dry spells.... so although the overall math works out to give a nightfall proc around every 10 ticks of corruption, you really put in a curve so that the first tick of a corruption after a nightfall had say a 2% chance to proc nightfall, and then every tick that chance increased. It gave the same 10% overall chance, but it smoothed out long RNG Dryspells and made back to back procs less likely.

Is there any chance you'd ever be willing to impliment such a system behind the scenes to the loot roles... just to spare people the 'dry streaks' of going weeks without ever getting loot while they look at others get 3 loots in a row. YOu can preserve the same overall amount of loot going out, but there are ways to help mitigate the worst extremes in RNG which I think we can all agree is no fun for anyone.
90 Troll Shaman
14215
11/09/2012 02:11 PMPosted by Tsunámi
shard a pice of gear this early in the expansion.


sha crystals are worth more than 28g.

for us non-enchanters though.. getting gold is better than 90% of items if you already have one. since the vendor cost is less than 28g for all but pretty much weapons.
90 Worgen Warlock
7275
11/09/2012 04:05 PMPosted by Ookdooker
If we got loot not for our spec and report this as a bug will we get a the correct loot example i have paladin tanking legs from Sha but i was ret reporting that will my legs get turned into the correct ones? If not then idk if i care enough to put in a ticket


They can't identify what spec you were in when you received an item.

However, putting a ticket in will let them know the flags on the item are bugged, so that this doesn't happen to you or someone else in the future.
1 Undead Rogue
0
<long rant from Hervore>


No offense, but you're in a bunch of gear that isn't gemmed or enchanted, no raid experience, looks like you haven't done any dailies, etc. I don't think you need to worry about moving on to the next stage of the game just yet...
100 Worgen Hunter
13935

I'm not sure "improve the old roll system" is the right way to phrase it, at least in the context that you have any expectation that the bonus roll should be much more likely to give you what you want, if not at least know not to give you what you already have.

Using a bonus roll is effectively no different than if you were to be able to loot that boss twice in one week. Each bonus roll provides the same chances of getting gear from the exact same loot tables as a normal loot roll -- nothing more, nothing less.

So it's an improvement in that you can earn an extra shot at a boss's loot table in one week. But it's not intended to be a system that ensures you never get what you don't need. The random loot system can only be so convenient before it becomes too efficient. We believe chance should dictate whether or not you get something at all and, if you do, whether or not you need still need that item. That philosophy -- specific to boss drops -- hasn't changed much over the years, so it stands to reason that even a bonus roll would follow the same structure.

But with that said, we're exploring ways to make the bonus roll feel like more of a random bonus, without just making it extremely efficient for gaining character power. We understand how it feels to spend the charms and rarely see anything other than gold or items you don't need. So, for example, we could maybe add pets and mounts that would have a low chance of dropping exclusively on a bonus roll.


I understand what your saying and all, and it makes sense. But it does hurt to win the same piece over and over again, especially knowing I wouldn't have rolled need or greed on said piece a second time. It hurts even more to been shown the piece I need but don't qualify for since I had already ran the raid once, only to use my bonus roll and win a different piece, one I already have.

Don't get me wrong, I like the whole bonus roll idea and get it that rng is rng, but the above is a tad bit frustrating.

[edit to add]

In short, I'd much rather get the 28 gold then a piece I already have and I'd rather not see the piece I could have won. Just airing my thoughts, over all I like the whole deal.
Edited by Mcgarnicle on 11/9/2012 4:37 PM PST
90 Orc Death Knight
16140
My biggest problem with bonus rolls right now has to do with offspecs. Being the third tank for Stone Guard and replacement tank if one of ours has to afk out for a night, I am unable to use my bonus roll on fights where I tank because I am unable to get gear for my main spec.

Would it be possible to add a way to select which spec you want your bonus rolls to be based on?
90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
You just can't make some people happy unless they get what they want every single time. God, I'd hate to be these children's parents.


Why must you bring negativity to this brain storm of suggestions?


Because people are basically complaining about getting more loot than they otherwise would have before charms. The entitlement runs deep.
Edited by Firestyle on 11/9/2012 4:32 PM PST
98 Worgen Mage
17990
Adding items to the bags is a good idea. Most elixirs and even flasks don't sell for a lot of gold, but players will enjoy getting something different every time.

It definitely works with Blingtron. In reality you're averaging just 20g or so a day from it, but it's fun.
90 Draenei Warrior
10815
11/09/2012 03:10 PMPosted by Zarhym
So, for example, we could maybe add pets and mounts that would have a low chance of dropping exclusively on a bonus roll.


Not too low.

I'm already having enough "fun" farming Onyxia.

5% is low enough for a roll that you can only get through grinding dailies week after week in order to get 3 charms.
90 Night Elf Druid
13470
11/09/2012 04:31 PMPosted by Firestyle


Why must you bring negativity to this brain storm of suggestions?


Because people are basically complaining about getting more loot than they otherwise would have before charms. The entitlement runs deep.


But isnt the reason we play this game is to have fun and be rewarded with gear? The same reason we work to get paid to reward ourselves with power, internet, wow?

Do you now complain when you go to McDonalds and pay for a cheese burger without pickles but get pickles anyway?

We pay for the game, the expansions, sub every month to connect to the servers, and some of us work really hard in the game to be rewarded with mounts, gear, titles ect.
90 Night Elf Druid
8200
This is definitely on the table. :)

The satchel is actually a point of reference for what we're thinking.

Unless my memory is failing me, I recall when the extra roll system was first being talked about, there was mentioning of getting something useful beyond just gold like gems and similar items. Although getting gems and certain other mats could be too rewarding this early in the expansion. Then there is your mentioning of the possibility of "exclusive" items to the extra roll. That seems a bit over the top. The same grounds as satchel though does seem more useful.
90 Worgen Warlock
7275

But isnt the reason we play this game is to have fun and be rewarded with gear? The same reason we work to get paid to reward ourselves with power, internet, wow?

Do you now complain when you go to McDonalds and pay for a cheese burger without pickles but get pickles anyway?

We pay for the game, the expansions, sub every month to connect to the servers, and some of us work really hard in the game to be rewarded with mounts, gear, titles ect.


If you want "guaranteed" gear, do the normal raids, not LFR.

Just accept the fact that the guaranteed gear you get, may not be what you want/need.

Anybody that complains about drops has no clue about statistics or how drop mechanics actually work.
90 Pandaren Shaman
14515
The Bonus Roll System wouldn't be so bad if your "reward" was a little more than 30 gold. You will make more than 30 gold doing any daily quest, not even counting the Valor Points and rep you'll receive as well. What can you buy with 30 gold? Does anyone know?

LFR is even more hilarious. If you're feeling charitable, you can do the same LFR a second time and receive 30g at the end of it--in exchange for two, three, or even four hours of your time. How does that make sense? I know LFR isn't designed to have someone queue over and over for the same raid, but why is it designed against having someone queue over and over for the same raid? Why am I, more or less, punished for wanting to help PUGs succeed at LFR? You can claim that there is nothing punishing about it, but the fact of the matter is that I can go to any MoP fishing pool and do ONE CAST and make more gold off of a single fish than I would off of four hours of LFR.

Increase the non-gear rewards for Bonus Roll and for a second round of LFR. Especially for LFR, if you give geared/skilled players a reason to jump back in, you'll find that many more LFR groups will be successful. That means less whining on the forums about Garalon.
90 Night Elf Druid
13470

But isnt the reason we play this game is to have fun and be rewarded with gear? The same reason we work to get paid to reward ourselves with power, internet, wow?

Do you now complain when you go to McDonalds and pay for a cheese burger without pickles but get pickles anyway?

We pay for the game, the expansions, sub every month to connect to the servers, and some of us work really hard in the game to be rewarded with mounts, gear, titles ect.


If you want "guaranteed" gear, do the normal raids, not LFR.

Just accept the fact that the guaranteed gear you get, may not be what you want/need.

Anybody that complains about drops has no clue about statistics or how drop mechanics actually work.


I only do LFR to help my guildys, I do not use my token for a LFR bonus roll and I have never mentioned LFR. Everything I do in game is with guildys. My only complaint is getting the same piece of gear back to back on bonus rolls. Maybe you should actually read my post or armory my character before casting judgement.
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