Farewell WoW, MoP = RIP

90 Pandaren Rogue
14030
11/12/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Zarhym
Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why?


Let's see. First, valor gear is tied to vendors that are gated by abysmally slow rep grinds. Second, you've done the exact same thing with high end gear crafting. Third, with the upcoming gear upgrade option, you need to have rep to get the gear to upgrade.

Making only one reliable way to gain rep at a painfully slow rate was a mistake. You said you were against instance grinding but you're fine with killing 300 or so mobs a day outside of an instance for a crappy amount of rep. How about letting the players decide how they want to gain rep and progress? Rep tabards, or rep per kill in the instances with attached faction. More FREQUENT tradeable rep turn in items like Sunfury Signets or Relics of Ulduar.
100 Gnome Rogue
11455
11/12/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Zarhym
Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why? Looking only at progression of character power at 90, do you not want to do scenarios, dungeons, or raids? What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?


His play time aside (which i agree is hardly casual), there is some point to be made around why people feel daily's are the way to gear - it provides the highest ILVL purples available outside of normal mode raiding, thought that would have been obvious.

I dont really like daily's but i do them - because the rep gear is the highest i can get currently (i dont have time to raid with a guild atm) - So its LFR and REP for me.

Would have been nice to do some dungeons for rep, and really its your own fault blizzard for allowing what you now consider to be a poor progression path to continue on for so long (rep from dungeons) - not that i agree, i think its great.
Edited by Eezeet on 11/12/2012 4:59 PM PST
1 Goblin Warlock
0

Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why? Looking only at progression of character power at 90, do you not want to do scenarios, dungeons, or raids? What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?


Not that I agree with the OP on all his points, but from a personal standpoint, what makes me feel like dailies are "required" is that everything that you can spend valor on is locked behind a reputation, and those reputations can only be done by doing dailies. Yes, you can do dungeons and scenarios, and raids and raid-finder, and those are all fun, don't get me wrong. But the currency you reward players with for doing those things is completely not usable unless you also do dailies. This fact, more than anything, burns me out on dailies, and also reduces the enjoyment I get out of other endgame stuff that awards valor.

This is also compounded for me because I never even touched Dread Wastes; I hit 90 in townlong steppes. That makes a good portion of the valor items inaccessible to me until I complete an entire other zone. Even if there were no alternative means of reputation (i.e., tabards), in Cata or Wrath not unlocking a faction would not reduce my ability to buy valor items. I just really do not think valor rewards should be rep-locked. You already have a weekly cap, and the pieces cost enough to require multiple weeks to purchase even one piece. It's too much.
90 Pandaren Monk
6310

Honored : All VP gear unlocked and you can do this by questing without dailies.
Revered : Patterns for crafted recipes.
Exalted : Mounts and vanity


This is so crazy it just might work...

I have never been a big fan of questing and I have never liked daily quests. I make the exception for the Shattern Sun system because we where changing the world while grinding them out which was really cool. The new daily system is just a very boring grind for me and many others like me.

I like 5 mans. I like crushing big scary stuff. I do not like collecting item B to hand into NPC A 15 times.

EDIT: Also looking forward to the nightmare of CRZ and dailies. I have been verbally attacked by people on my own server... can't wait for more of that.
Edited by Kongfuzi on 11/12/2012 5:00 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Warlock
6995
11/12/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Zarhym
Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why? Looking only at progression of character power at 90, do you not want to do scenarios, dungeons, or raids? What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?


I'm not really in a situation similar to that of the OP, but I can definitely relate to the "forced" feel of dailies. I forget the exact number of Valor points I have, but this marks the first time in any expansion or any iteration of the game in which you cannot spend Valor points without first partaking in some manner of faction/rep grind. A friend of mine is a dungeon junky who doesn't quest hardly at all, and who has hit the Valor cap. Until 5.1, she has no use for Valor, your top tier PVE currency. That's frustrating, and it's bad design, and it forces people into Daily-based rep-grinds whether they want to or not if that currency is to be useful to them. It's not really a game breaker for me because I'm hyper-casual these days, but if I was raiding like I used to, I can see how it would be infuriating.
24 Blood Elf Warlock
10870
11/12/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Zarhym
Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why? Looking only at progression of character power at 90, do you not want to do scenarios, dungeons, or raids?


blues vs purples in the sense of getting into raids which everyone requires a certain ilvl unobtainable by the 463 blues
Edited by Shaoflust on 11/12/2012 5:00 PM PST
90 Orc Hunter
0
Finally ready to call it quits, realized today after almost 8 years of playing that I just didn't enjoy the game anymore.

MoP ruined this game for people like me, I have a family, and I cannot and WILL not be forced into doing dailies across all my toons or hell even ONE toon in order to progressively gear my characters.

The new loot system for LFR, Sha, etc is completely unbearable, constantly seeing 28g pop up across all my toons gives me ZERO incentive to continue grinding out the casual content I am used to.

And its not like I havent given it time, I leveled nine classes to 90, and going through the same content over and over wasn't so bad, its the point where you get to 90 and you are pigeon holed into grinding dailies over and over or PVP'ing (which I do NOT enjoy). So I canceled today, which is saying alot because I play alot and used to enjoy this game massively.

Some will flame me, blizz will probably close the post, but truth be told, if they don't address these things soon there will be many following suit.

There is definitely legitimacy to your post, and we've been reading a lot of the feedback players have been sharing lately as we evaluate our endgame progression systems. Even as World of Warcraft evolves over each expansion, and as happy as we are with the experience we crafted for Mists of Pandaria, we always know we can do better.

Having said all of that, I'm just not personally sure we can design a game that's going to feel fresh and rife with content every time you login, if the expectation is that the average World of Warcraft player will have nine level-90 characters less than two months after the expansion's release. I really don't mean this as a judgment of how you choose to spend your time, either. But when considering everything you said in your post -- you mention needing time for family and enjoying casual content -- your noted (or implied) play time really sticks out.

Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why? Looking only at progression of character power at 90, do you not want to do scenarios, dungeons, or raids? What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?

If you want to spend your Valor Points, you have to level your reputation (at least until 5.1 upgrades). I leveled an alt to 90 and I just don't want to level up my reputations again, probably not even with the boost, so I have no use for Valor Points right now.
Edited by Ovan on 11/12/2012 5:02 PM PST
100 Goblin Rogue
18700
11/12/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Zarhym
Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why? Looking only at progression of character power at 90, do you not want to do scenarios, dungeons, or raids? What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?


I don't post often, but I've wanted to post for awhile now on this particular topic.

I do raid, and I do feel it necessary to get reputation to unlock the benefits to my character that those reps provide so that I feel like I'm helping my team as best I can. In the past it was shoulder enchants, but now its full on raid gear that I can't get unless I rep grind.

I however, can live with the current reputation grinds. What is marring this otherwise great expansion for me is this dance around wanting me to play alts but then demotivating me to do so.

I view alts as a way for me to support my main toon. I like having an alchemist, miner, blacksmith, etc all there to support my toons. I like having high level tailoring etc.

But in order to get the high level recipes, I have to grind out reputation to get them. Its fine to gate SOME things behind reputation like mounts, and other fun things. But it feels like the whole game is gated by reputation grinds. And that pretty much kills any desire I have to level alts let alone grind out reputation on them.

The ONE exception to this is tillers. Because having a 16 plot farm gives you so much, hiding that behind a reputation grind feels ok. But the pattern for the 28 slot bag? I can't even approach that on my tailor (who is still 85) just because its behind not only august celestials but golden lotus as well.

In short, I think a LOT of people would quiet down if you made the compromise of letting us NOT do dailies for rep on our alts. Make the rewards that you can buy BOA or give me a way to grant my alts reputation so I don't have to grind out dailies on more than one toon.

I'm not even exalted on all reps and starting to get very burnt out on dailies.
90 Dwarf Hunter
8470
Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why? Looking only at progression of character power at 90, do you not want to do scenarios, dungeons, or raids? What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?


Scenarios's do not contribute to "character power"... A slim chance at a RNG blue for a random slot isn't really progression, it's about as much progression as farming Spiders and getting an epic, just less rare...


Change Scenarios to raids and blue with epic and you can define raid like that. I agree that maybe Scenario loot needs to be revisited (because I freaking love them), but in their current state they offer a decent chance at gear and VP points. Heck, I got two pieces of scenario gear before I got a piece of heroic dungeon gear.
Edited by Norke on 11/12/2012 5:04 PM PST
1 Undead Warrior
0
The game is and was pointless, now with a dash of omg do this over and over. I too feel it is unplayable.. when your trying to get up from in front of the tv to go do your daily's it is time to stop paying.. if your tv is actually calling you back then the game truly sucks. It does not really suprise me that is sucks so much. I came back based on a TV add that made the panda look cool.. big mistake NO more money for you blizz.
53 Human Paladin
335
Finally ready to call it quits, realized today after almost 8 years of playing that I just didn't enjoy the game anymore.

MoP ruined this game for people like me, I have a family, and I cannot and WILL not be forced into doing dailies across all my toons or hell even ONE toon in order to progressively gear my characters.

The new loot system for LFR, Sha, etc is completely unbearable, constantly seeing 28g pop up across all my toons gives me ZERO incentive to continue grinding out the casual content I am used to.

And its not like I havent given it time, I leveled nine classes to 90, and going through the same content over and over wasn't so bad, its the point where you get to 90 and you are pigeon holed into grinding dailies over and over or PVP'ing (which I do NOT enjoy). So I canceled today, which is saying alot because I play alot and used to enjoy this game massively.

Some will flame me, blizz will probably close the post, but truth be told, if they don't address these things soon there will be many following suit.
9 level 90's and you're talking about a grind? You have a family, and other obligations and you've leveled 9 characters to max level? I think this is more about control over the direction of the game with an ultimatum. You don't need to do dailies. I have a hard time believing you.
Edited by Hypokricy on 11/12/2012 5:06 PM PST
90 Night Elf Druid
8200
11/12/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Zarhym
What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?

Not speaking for the OP, though for me, dailies are the biggest reward for the effort(difficulty). You get gold, stat based rewards better than LFR, cosmetic rewards, and none of it is RNG based so you know you will get items for even the most unlucky WoW player. The biggest bang for your effort is doing dailies.

11/12/2012 04:38 PMPosted by Faera
Scenarios's do not contribute to "character power"... A slim chance at a RNG blue for a random slot isn't really progression, it's about as much progression as farming Spiders and getting an epic, just less rare...

This as well, the rewards from scenarios is lower than basic honor/jp gear and only serves as "character progression" for those who only do scenarios after hitting level cap. If you are already strapped for time and want to progress your character as Blizzard has said is an important thing for players that they want to support, then you are going to skip things like scenarios and do things which you might find less enjoyable as they are a means to progress your character. At this point for the effort(difficulty), dailies just reward far too much compared to the content on the same effort level.
Edited by Noctemtenchi on 11/12/2012 5:07 PM PST
100 Night Elf Druid
18650
Hey Zarhym,

I just want to say that I agree with the OP. I don't have 9 90s, but I do have one and let me just say this:

I do not enjoy dailies. Well, wrong word choice. Say, rather, that I loathe the idea of a "daily." My mind will not handle the idea that if I do something every day for 20 days I will earn ________.

The issue (for me) is that when I aim to accomplish a thing, I want to dictate the pace. I don't want to be told that I can only do this thing once per day, or that I need to do 5 of "these" for proggression. This is why I abhorred the daily quest cap in previous expansions.. even though I rarely hit it! The idea that I had to choose between fully completing the Basin dailies vs. Hodir vs. Icecrown... it felt like a contrived hindrance that existed solely to prevent __x__. (Inflation? "Forcing people to do them all?")

To be honest, I find myself put off by a lot of things that are a little.. passe in WoW. I'll just give some free advice, and stop there. :)

1. Raid lockouts: Remove them for non-current content. Let anyone that wants to farm MC 30 times a day for a drop do so!

2. Mining nodes: Remove the profession requirement and allow everyone to farm them, and then concentrate on their professions.

3. Mailing system: Shared bank for characters on a server. Same amount of total storage, much more convenient.

4. "Farm status" daily quests (pun intended!): You've killed the reputation boss and are now fully exalted. Earn triple valor from dailies. Same effort as farming a raid boss, right?

There you go! Free and game changing, but loads of fun.
90 Tauren Warrior
11190
I have to say I need to give credit to Zarhym here for putting it so elegantly. I have a full time job, it took me forever to get my MAIN to lvl 90. I chose to progress through dailies, rep, raids, etc before I start to level an alt. That was my choice, as it is yours. Because I don't have to be as politically correct as Zarhym does, I need to say, if you have the time to lvl 9 characters to lvl 90 (even if it was just the 5 mop levels) and we're not 2 months into the expac yet, there isn't a gaming company in the world who can keep up with your appetite for content. Perhaps you should look into playing multiple games at once?
100 Human Paladin
18040
The problem is there's a fine line between "something to do" and "something you have to do". I don't think they properly drew that line in MoP.

In previous expansions, one could "gear up" multiple characters in a tier. That appears to be difficult now, especially with the VP/honor upgrade mechanisms. This is especially grating after Cataclysm, the expansion that caused the creation of more level-capped alts than any previous one. Most of those alts are now going to have to be left to rot, which feels terrible.

The excitement I had for this expansion is rapidly draining away. The grind is just too blatant. It also reminds me of why I left Rift (the AA-like mechanism); that mechanism is also why I have never considered going back to that game. Once you fall behind, you're done.
90 Night Elf Warrior
10975
I think one part of the problem is that for the past year or so we have become accustomed to an extremely simple and easy way to gear up our alts and be raid ready. People have forgotten that at the beginning of a new expansion it takes some time.

edit: and as it turns out, the guy above me said something similar :D
Edited by Eprouvil on 11/12/2012 5:09 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Death Knight
UE
22885

Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why? Looking only at progression of character power at 90, do you not want to do scenarios, dungeons, or raids? What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?


From what I understand everything you buy with valor points requires some form of rep first? So if you want to do raids you need to grind those reputations to be able to purchase these item upgrades.
The guy with the 9 level 90's doesn't need those valor items to raid, dungeon blues will do for the content he is doing.
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]