Farewell WoW, MoP = RIP

90 Blood Elf Mage
11190
So here's my two cents,and I'm gonna toss it in even though it's about 200 pages deep in this thread.

I have no problem with the huge amount of daily quests, or doing dailies for rep/rep gear. I'm lukewarm towards dailies giving rep, I'm one who believes you should be able to cap Valor through completing all of the raids.

There's two things that really irk me though, the first is Justice/Valor gear being locked behind rep vendors (especially considering you reduced valor gains through raiding significantly). I understand the need to put a carrot at the end of the stick, but there's largely 2 sticks here, and only one carrot, and the carrot goes bad after a couple weeks of raiding.

I know, I know, it's all a choice and you won't miss the power upgrades in a month anyway, but that makes it worse. The first month of raiding is when those power increases are the most important and say what you will, but to anyone who really cares about their raids success either does all their relevant dailies or agonizes about not doing them.

We're also pigeon holed into playing farmville, with the cost of flasks and the nerf to cauldrons we're either stuck paying far more for flasks or golden lotus than we make from raiding (which pushes the people that don't make money off the AH back into dailies) or we can play farmville to get spirits of harmony to get golden lotus to get flasks.

The other thing that really grinds my gears is the rep. To preface I absolutely loathed MoP leveling (the time, the difficulty, the dread wastes, ALL of it), to the point that I nearly cancelled my subscription rather than actually finish getting to 90. Now I have alts I'd like to level, but there's no new BoA gear, you won't let me fly (I have infinite respect for the work that went into building MoP, but I've seen it, I don't want to see it again, I want to get to max level ASAP. I make the kill videos for our guild, I know all about putting alot of work into something and people only using it once, get over yourselves, the only people who are happy alts can't fly are the level 90's who want to gank them) And on top of all that you tell me I have to do the same rep grind to get the same reps to get the same gear I got on my main. Double pep isn't even close to good enough, the reps you have NEED to be account wide, Tie the rep level to whichever character has the highest rep level (one toon is 12000/24000 revered? other toons start at 0/24000 revered).

I really enjoyed alts, but there is absolutely No. Way. In. Hell. I'd level another character through this content as it stands now, Ever. And that's too bad, because I enjoyed doing alt raids to have guild subs for fights, I enjoyed raiding on off nights, which is much harder since you made 10/25 share the same lockout.

Basically it feels like EVERYTHING in this expansion is geared at taking as much time as humanly possible (tons of dailies, long leveling time, no BoA gear, No flying while leveling alts, huge time sink capping Valor, etc.) I know people complained about not having enough to do, but there has to be a balance. Every expansion it's a pendulum swing from one extreme to another, whether that be difficulty, quality of life, time consumption.

P.S. I don't see why 10s and 25s still share a lockout when the reason behind combining them was people felt obligated to run them both for upgrades and the time consumption was burning them out, and now we have LFR, a couple gross of dailies, more than half a dozen reps to cap, farmville to play.. the list goes on... You get my point.
58 Orc Death Knight
90
I admit that I enjoy many more aspects of MoP then Cata but sometimes the reputation grind does become overwhelming and tedious. However, it is a choice.

My main is a raider and despite knowing that valor gear does not necessarily equal more success in raiding . . . it certainly does help.

And there are alternatives - LFG and world bosses being two of them.

So, the debate of whether dallies are necessary to be successful does not concern me. Some people will say no because they are uber raiders or don't care about gear. Others will argue they like gear and maybe need that extra little help. Regardless, each viewpoint has some valid points and shouldn't just be dismissed. Blizzard cannot make everyone happy but that doesn't mean some problems in the system shouldn't be voiced or addressed.

That stated . . . our team has found that grinding dallies to get valor gear has been motivated by the horrible luck in drops.

First, I'm certainly not suggesting that valor or tier gear is absolutely required to progress but the fact that the gear does exist may hint that it may be beneficial to have if you are attempting to progress through raids. And let's be honest, not all realms or raid teams are equally blessed with skilled players. Even Blizzard recognizes and provides nerfs during the expansion to ensure that a vast percentage of raid teams are able to see all the content. And Valor gear should be a way of compensating for bad gear drops.

At this moment I know numerous "non-raiders" that have either 2-piece or 4-piece sets from LFG or world boss kills. And when I use the term "non-raiders" it refers to people that have no interest nor ever intend to actually participate on a progression or even casual raid team. Yet, we have two raid teams that have yet to obtain a single piece of tier gear, weapons or trinkets due to really bad luck in LFG/WB and have not simply progressed to the point in normal raids to get these drops.

In Dragon Soul having tier pieces drop in LFG was no big deal because the tier items for regular raids dropped early enough in raid progression. Raiders were able to balance out tier gear from both so that 'non-raiders' and 'raiders' were similarly geared if just different in ilevel. I never anticipated that having LFG and non-DS raid format existing at the same time would create a potential imbalance.

So, many of our raiders dutifully grind those dallies to get valor gear to compensate for the horrible bad luck of gear drops with the hopes that it will increase their chances of progressing to the bosses that do drop the "good" stuff. Sadly, I think it's been discouraging to some raiders to see people that have no interest in raiding walking around with better gear/ilevel due to just better luck.

Today our raid team is progressing through Heart of Fear. We ran LFG with no upgrades or tier pieces dropping. Zip on Sha. And during our raid, a "non-raider" posted winning 2 tier pieces and one from Sha. To say that it was discouraging is an understatement. Good for him but bad luck for our team. Guess it's true . . . if I didn't have bad luck, I'd have no luck at all."

So, it's not about a messed up loot system, LFG/WB loot tables or anything like that. I just bring this up as it is simply one of the reasons why some raiders may feel driven or forced to grind those dallies. They are not uber raiders and should never gamble in Vegas . . . but they just want a chance to do better each raid night. And sometimes grinding rep for valor gear is the only alternative.
90 Draenei Paladin
Hax
10190


Because you keep changing your mind in what your said solution is.

That is fine :) But the current heroic progression on raid bosses is NOT faceroll, and requires a lot of research and tuning, even for the top progression guilds. If it wasn't, there would be a lot more than 10 guilds with full current progression. So your comment on how current raids are 'easy' is still null and void.

How does that fix your solution that you want to reach valor gear but cant be screwed to grind rep for it? The only thing I see Valor gear being viable for is to help guilds get items to help progress on finely gear tuned fights. Even then the increase is so minimal that it wouldn't make a big difference at all for lower end guilds. Higher end, sure - but for those people, WoW is their life, and for some of them, their job. As in, they get PAID to stream themselves playing this game, or just payed by sponsors to play it.


zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Take away Epics from the VP vendors. Give Blue gear from dailies. Problem solved.

EPICS ONLY FROM RAIDS... not hard to tune raids to be done in blue gear from Dungeons.

Raids should not be this easy. They ARE easy right now. Seriously it's just "don't stand in !@#$". There are no real mechanics, nothing. Remember how long it took to down end game bosses before? THAT was good.

Thank you for telling me how my BF works. I didn't know -.-
Some of them did grind yes, but did they enjoy it? Hell no.


Good for your boyfriend :) You are clearly not on this level.

Which end game boss? Deathwing? He was loot candy. There are no end game bosses thus far in this expansion, as this is the BEGINNING of the expansion. So how can you comment on that? Please. Get in a raid and try the bosses THEN tell me how you do; and oh, Please tell me how much of a difference not having two 489 pieces from valor gear effects you on killing such EASY bosses. Because like you said; they are FACEROLL, so why do you require VP gear to complete them?
90 Draenei Shaman
14055
Heh, for two people who didn't seem to have raided in the "good old days", you seem awful eager to return to them.

How do you know you'll have fun?

Let's also consider some things:

1) Downing the ORIGINAL Four Horsemen was hard not because of the fight. It was hard because if a tank's taunt resisted, you'd wipe. Tank taunts were on spell hit, meaning you had to have a tank with +spell stuff on...or wait for your warriors to get 4/9 of their tier.

2) MC fights were tank and spank with no standing in fire. The hardest thing about them was benching all your fire mages and hoping no one screwed up a debuff.

3) BWL fights required remembering to put on your Cloak and hoping that you didn't get one-shot by the boss if you screwed up aggro. Also, run behind things to clear your debuff.

4) Naxx I didn't do that much of, but it was mostly "make sure your DPS is good" on the hard fights. That and hope that your Patchwerk soak tank didn't die.

5) AQ's difficulty came from getting everyone to grind their NR gear, run away from the spinning thing, tranq shot, and...well, C'Thun was actually challenging. So there's that.

Once TBC hit, you actually got bosses that required thinking. But again, the hardest bosses boiled down to: make sure your DPS is good. If that meant stacking a class and benching others, rolling heroisms, etc., then that was what you did.
Edited by Smushiel on 11/14/2012 12:01 AM PST
90 Dwarf Paladin
0
I will say, despite my previous post supporting Blizzard and Mists of Pandaria, I do agree with Lucitya on the reps and the flying being account wide...I too am quite discouraged about leveling alts, not just for the leveling part, but the frightening thought of starting over with no rep...
90 Blood Elf Priest
14880
Good for your boyfriend :) You are clearly not on this level.

Which end game boss? Deathwing? He was loot candy. There are no end game bosses thus far in this expansion, as this is the BEGINNING of the expansion. So how can you comment on that? Please. Get in a raid and try the bosses THEN tell me how you do; and oh, Please tell me how much of a difference not having two 489 pieces from valor gear effects you on killing such EASY bosses. Because like you said; they are FACEROLL, so why do you require VP gear to complete them?


LOL <3 Holy :)
90 Blood Elf Mage
8520
it will never go back to BC, period, Blizzard dev's cant understand the simple math.

from vannilla-BC 1 xpac, wow went from 0-12 million, and its never been as high as it was in BC, it even craped out to 8 mil in Cata or LK 33% player loss, they brough out a few fun things old players though "hmmm maybe ill give it another shot just to satify my curiosity"
and ive seen several of my old friends quit...again.

1 logged, got to 90, did a few heroics, did dailies for 2 days and sent me a whisper "lol this is a joke man" we joked around for a minute he then said "later man" and i havent seen him since, that was 3 wks ago, 1 wk of this pityful joke and he was done.

its like blizzard had a good tihng goin, screwed it up, started losing customers (which is what we are) and continued down the same path ignorantly.

everyone says "well if you dont like it leave" "if its that bad..." constant back and forth, didnt see a whole lot of that in BC, not like now.
90 Draenei Paladin
Hax
10190
Good for your boyfriend :) You are clearly not on this level.

Which end game boss? Deathwing? He was loot candy. There are no end game bosses thus far in this expansion, as this is the BEGINNING of the expansion. So how can you comment on that? Please. Get in a raid and try the bosses THEN tell me how you do; and oh, Please tell me how much of a difference not having two 489 pieces from valor gear effects you on killing such EASY bosses. Because like you said; they are FACEROLL, so why do you require VP gear to complete them?


DUDE ARE YOU BLIND???? I don't PLAY ANYMORE

YES DW was a piñata but he was def harder than the stupid Sha of anger now.

And no Im not on my BF's level or I WOULD BE IN THE SAME GUILD derp.

AND ALSO didn't you see me simply say take off the epics from dailies? READ


Sha of Anger is akin to the VOA boss, Archavon, and is not meant to be an end level boss. This was stated by blues. If you are referring to Sha of fear, he was only just released this week on NORMAL, so people have no yet attempted Heroic Sha yet to determine his level of difficulty.

So if your BF is on such a high level, that you are not on, then how can you claim that they are 'easy' based on a hardcore player's progression and guild? If his guild is doing well, they are clearly much higher than casuals. So if anyone in this thread were to go in and attempt Sha of Fear, he'd probably be close to impossible.

Why are you changing your suggestions? It went from wanting free rep, to wanting more paths to VP gear, to now wanting NO VP gear at all. Do you see that you have just gone in circles with countless hypocritical suggestions? Your logic is hugely flawed.

Oh and, I'm not a dude honey <3333
90 Tauren Warrior
14365
lol, last blue was on page 41 I think. Thats 152 pages ago. Just leave it be.
90 Draenei Shaman
14055
Heh, for two people who didn't seem to have raided in the "good old days", you seem awful eager to return to them.

How do you know you'll have fun?


Only reason I didn't raid in Vanilla was #1 I started halfway through and #2 I had no clue what raiding even WAS, I didn't get to max level until towards the end, I started raiding in BC.


So that means you...didn't raid back then. Let me restate what I said above:

Let's also consider some things:

1) Downing the ORIGINAL Four Horsemen was hard not because of the fight. It was hard because if a tank's taunt resisted, you'd wipe. Tank taunts were on spell hit, meaning you had to have a tank with +spell stuff on...or wait for your warriors to get 4/9 of their tier.

2) MC fights were tank and spank with no standing in fire. The hardest thing about them was benching all your fire mages and hoping no one screwed up a debuff.

3) BWL fights required remembering to put on your Cloak and hoping that you didn't get one-shot by the boss if you screwed up aggro. Also, run behind things to clear your debuff.

4) Naxx I didn't do that much of, but it was mostly "make sure your DPS is good" on the hard fights. That and hope that your Patchwerk soak tank didn't die.

5) AQ's difficulty came from getting everyone to grind their NR gear, run away from the spinning thing, tranq shot, and...well, C'Thun was actually challenging. So there's that.

Once TBC hit, you actually got bosses that required thinking. But again, the hardest bosses boiled down to: make sure your DPS is good. If that meant stacking a class and benching others, rolling heroisms, etc., then that was what you did. The real coordination fights were in BT. However, they were VERY dependent on one or two people:
1) Your tanks for Illidan
2) Your interrupters on loot council
3) That guy who always screwed up Gorefiend
90 Night Elf Warrior
10340
Take away Epics from the VP vendors. Give Blue gear from dailies. Problem solved.

EPICS ONLY FROM RAIDS... not hard to tune raids to be done in blue gear from Dungeons.


I would be ok with this. Gear should be proportionate to the effort required. The daily grind is
much less difficult than normal mode MV and shouldn't offer the same level of gear as a reward. Perhaps make the daily gear equal to heroic dungeon gear and make it available for purchase with gold instead of valor. No valor gear, but in this case I think it'd work.

Then just make charms of good fortune available as a reward for completing a dungeon for an incentive to stay to the end of the dungeon if the item you need doesn't drop.
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