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(Don't know why I'm getting involved by talking to people who clearly have no idea what they're talking about... but here it goes)
Okay, clearly its been so long that all of you forget that BC wasn't actually THAT difficult - there was only one thing that made that Xpac harder than it needed to be - and that was someone entering the game could NOT get to the 'current' tier of raiding without going through EVERY OTHER STEP to get there - so raiding guilds were at a minimum - they couldn't get recruits off the bat. I went through that, so I know what it was like. I had to grind through a completely separate tier to even be eligible for the current tier.
The instances were NOT as hard as you seem to be remembering. You are comparing two entry-level instances - MV VS Kara (they were BOTH entry so you can't compare end-game atm). And guess what..? Kara was PUGGABLE all the way through to Prince in BLUES. MV is not.
Back in BC, I consider myself to be a... not so desirably powerful player of the time - I knew how to move out of things, listen to instructions etc, but the number crunching just went overhead and I was not optimized for performance. And I STILL cleared that instance with random people I met in trade chat, with blue gear I farmed from stupid Clefthooves (par one or two purps from the heroics).
So what on EARTH are you people smoking?
The funny part is pvp changes. I mostly get my cap with arenas. This week I did a rated battleground before getting Arena cap. Guess what ? my rated battleground point counted as arena cap :| (1800). so extra 400 conquest I got from rated battleground went in vein cuz I didn't do it blizzard way "hit arena cap before rated battle ground".
Point is I don't like doing rated Bg's and when i do one I don't get beyond conquest cap (1800 for arenas, 2200 for rated battle grounds) because I didn't do in right order ? Some more useless grinding for extra 400 conquest points....
Edited by Zare on 11/14/2012 12:51 AM PST
You realise they created LFR, Normal, and Heroic modes to enable different player bases to be able to SEE the content? Blizzard WANT their customers not to miss out, but there are harder modes in place so that 1% can still be the 1% - completing the end tier in Heroic mode so they can feel achieved within themselves. Not saying I'll be in that 1%, but there's a reason they don't make raids completely inaccessible - the numbers have gone up from 0 to 11 million from vanilla till now. That's a much larger player base that want to get the most out of this game.
the mass majority of players were pleased w/ BC
T6 was added with patch 2.1http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_2.1.0But the SSO jp vendor was added with sunwell.The only hard bosses in MT hyjal, ssc, tk and bt were the final ones
there were buyable epics in BC, with rep you could buy alot of epics, including resist gear.
sure maybe the only hard bosses were the last 1's but you had a gd blast getting to them.
when was the last time you seen a sheep in raid?
when was the last time you used sap/fear and sheep in a 5 man.....or watched your tank eat it in under 3 seconds? thats a heroic, when it takes you an hour to get through a heroic, that locks after 1 clear, you desirve the big bonus epic at the end. it took me 2 months to get suneater to drop on my warrior, an i was so pround when i showed up to raid with it "DUDE YOU GOT SUNEATER!" think i may have even gotten choked up when i replaced it w/ king's defender.
i raided in BC, alot, the plant i worked at closed down and i got a year of unemp, unfortunantly that ended some time ago, Mag was no joke, 1 boss.......hours.
if 1 retard screwed up it was all over.
BC wasnt about "RUN THERES A BALL OF FIRE FALLING FROM THE SKY!!!"
it was cc this, cc that. or everyone dies, yes, there was alot of movement from time to time, in bursts, but you got to flat nuke most of the time, your skill was hinged around your ability to set up your toon, run a good rotation, mana pot/mana gem/evo wisely
AND BC HAD MAGE TANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY IN GODS NAME DID THAT HAVE TO END???????????
Actually :O Monday night when we cleaned up Wind Lord; you know, because that boss actually requires you to cc 4 targets; and if you cc anymore they all become uncc'd and go around oneshotting the raid :) Oh, and once you kill one of these, 2 become uncc'd! :O and each round of adds you kill, the boss does increased damage. Yeah, there's no originality there, and nah, there's been no cc in boss fights since bc. ;P
I guess it depends on your definition of a challenge. I think Sunwell, Sarth-3D, and some Ulduar achievements definitely qualified as a challenge. Sunwell was very tightly tuned, and required a lot of coordination (even that first trash pull around the corner). Sarth-3D was also tuned pretty well, and needed healthy coordination of tank and healer cooldowns.
Stuff before Sunwell mostly took quite a while for world first kills too, so it's easy to say they were a challenge at some level. Mostly it was gear check bosses, but getting past a gear check as early as possible was definitely challenging and felt extremely rewarding. Like I remember switching to a resto shaman and getting to skate through Naj with less HP than the damage he did because I hadn't finished gearing up yet (we were supposed to run SSC/TK to gear me and others up, but there were no-shows that needed SSC/TK and so we figured WTF and did BT). Stuff like that where you could cheat the "right" way to do the boss by accepting a challenge was great. The priest just kept me shielded, we all used CDs, etc.
So I don't know if tightly tuned fights, gear check mechanics, and such qualify as a challenge in your mind. But I do know they were fun since they provided a challenge for weeks and weeks where you steadily saw your group progress through both gear and skill. I miss the days when I'd show up for a raid desperately hoping we'd just get to see phase 2 of the fight, not even thinking about actually downing the boss at all.
Sarth 3D was a joke. in both 10 and 25. Did it in current content with a mediocre guild, as a mediocre player. I'd say the last four bosses of HoF were alot more challenging than him.
you realize blizzard created lfr and heroic modes so they wouldnt have to create 8 raids in 1 expansion? BC 8 raids, cata 5, thats why they created different modes, its called lazyness.
look at it man,
lol honestly their even revamping old 5/10 mans so they dont have to create new 5 mans....."just up the dmg/hp and gear....and were all set, everyone go have a beer, good work" blizzard has gotten lazy.
id almost gauruntee you the only reason they did away with talent trees is because they didnt wanna screw around with trying to balance it anymore, "we dont want the cookie cutter specs, so heres 6 tiers, 3 choices" is it not still cookie cutter? what exactily did that solve other then less work for blizzard?
there was a time when you would see a mage in org standing on the bank in gear you wanted but had to work your @#$ off for, there is now a weekend warrior standng next to him in the same gear its just yellow instead of red, and they wonder why they've lost 1.5 million accounts, they wonder why the mage in red said "screw this"
Edited by Magior on 11/14/2012 1:02 AM PST
I'm finished* it, and this chubby psycho is making me sick :) He doesn't KNOW what he's talking about and hes forgetting WHY these bosses didn't fall so early on and there were NOT as many players accessible for guilds to bring in - if a guild lost a hardcore raider... they had to GEAR UP A NEW ONE. He's basically saying no one should get to experience the content if at all. And you know what hes forgetting - those world first players didn't LIKE a lot of the things that are now GONE. They are GONE for a reason.
'Oh Grull died 10 days after release!!'
Um.. thats nice.. :P and 'WOTE' died 8 days after MoP's release :) yay for statistics. There are better players now, and more of them. And if I hear one more chubby wow-nerd talk about how the lore is lacking in MoP... .... ... go read a book about it. Its very interesting thus far.
Our OT got world FIRST Manexxa.. WOOHOO. And cleared quite a way through Naxx. Guess what..? He doesn't CARE. Were you there in Naxx with him? He might know you. Another of our friends was there for OC-First KJ, ask him how he feels about BC :) Says it was good, but the bosses they are bringing out are still GOOD.
Now let me ask you, what did YOU achieve in that period of time..? Why aren't they complaining, but you are?
I liked BC. I liked WOTLK. I liked Cata (par deathwing.. very lackluster fight). And I like MoP so far.
Statistics are still very much the same. There is still less than 1% of players that have KILLED the end bosses :) and there are MORE players - so Blizz is doing fine. Maybe you should be the one reading statistics..?
Edited by Wolf on 11/14/2012 1:05 AM PST
dont need 1, i looked in forums then too, and their wernt massive 195 page "this game sucks" posts, and you didnt see post after post after post of the same thing
what in gods name were you sheeping and why?
you got me there, but they speedy nerfed it and it went away
did you have a healer? cause he probably shouldnt be pulling without 1
stop it your gunna make me tear up, at least you got to kill stuff, vs collecting worms and falling fruit
now were on the same page
I don't disagree that Blizzard hasn't been lackluster in terms of how lazy or original hey want to be, but I do disagree how certain people seem to think this tier is easy :S From the past few expansions, it has been nothing but a step up difficulty wise in terms of the raids. I choose to play this game because I loooove the raids. And honestly, these raids have been much better than anything past BwD that Blizzard put out last expansion. The fact that there are 16 bosses, not including different modes, has been the MOST ever released at once in this game in over 4 years, to the extent that unless you raid 14 hours a day 7 days weekly, the likelihood of your guild completing 16/16 H before the next patch hits is minimal, or at least you can't progress easily without falling behind on getting loot from the farmable (by your guild) encounters. You are entitled to your opinion, I'm entitled to mine. And personally I grind the raids for the achievements, mounts and titles, not the gear. The gear is just a bonus to help me progress through the next stage of raids; but the Titles and achievements to me matter a lot; for they tell me I completed the current challenge within such and such date. Just my two cents worth.
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