Farewell WoW, MoP = RIP

38 Goblin Rogue
10255
You are really hung up on gear man. Really.

Regardless of what the goal is, the path to it must be fun and rewarding. It really isn't any more complex than that. People want a choice. Right now there is only one way in the MoP expansion to gain reputations with certain factions. They only have one way of spending currency obtained through other methods....which again require the single course of action, dailies.

My point of contention is again, simple. People want a choice. Saying 'don't do it' is not a valid choice in the discussion. It may be the ultimate outcome for some, but that will not lead to any revenue for Blizzard, so I'd like to at least agree that people leaving is a bad thing.


I'm not at all, but everyone who says they need the valor gear the rep vendors sell certainly are. And really that's the majority of the people on the forums complaining about dailies. So yeah, I focus my points there because its addressing the points others are making.

If it's not about gear, please point me to the people complaining they can't get mounts without doing dailies.

For you, mayhaps it is not. but I'm having trouble quantifying what you want that your dislike of dailies is preventing you from having. Is it the mounts? The achievements? You've taken valor gear off the table so I assume its one of the two.

Don't do it is certainly a valid choice when there are different paths to take. Do different paths lead to different places? Yes. Do all paths need to lead to the same destination? If so, where are the pet battlers complaining they cannot achieve gear progression through pet battles?

I get the concept of choice well enough, but the overwhelming outcry from the anti-daily crew ultimately boils down to a desire to have their cake and eat it too. Perhaps you don't fall into that crowd, but looking at the myriad posts on this subject makes it clear that folks just want Blizzard to move the game one step closer to getting handouts.

What? How putting rep gear as rep only and valor gear as valor gated only makes sure that valor gear is mandatory? You already need the valor points for that gear...

Double gating is WRONG, nothing should be double gated. And we should let Blizzard know that we dont want things to be double gated.


The dual gating of valor gear is an attempt (although apparently a failed one based on these posts) to point out that they are there as a bonus to those who want to put in the extra effort.

Curious if you could quantify your all capitals use of the word "wrong" here, since I haven't seen lawsuits raised against Blizzard or religious organizations denouncing them. Yeah, my comment is tongue in cheek, but "wrong" in all caps like that seems sufficient hyperbole to warrant it.
87 Undead Rogue
5235
tl;dr: daily quests suck

If there were any point to having a community about WoW? The game world is entirely fictional. "Azeroth" or whatever, isn't relevant at all in any meaningful sense of the word to anyone above the age of 12 or so.

Sure, there's nice artwork. And some pleasing landscapes. And a generally fun-ish array of minor distractions. But there's nothing really relevant about the fantasy world itself, except perhaps its "art" value.

So its natural that daily quests that force people to repetitively engage with the paper-thin, nonsensical, and ultimately goes-nowhere lore of the game also force them to constantly examine their relationship with the game world and what that means for them in the larger context of their lives.

For a lot of people, I think, the group activities are able to maintain their relevance over long periods of time because those activities (5-man dungeons, PvP battlegrounds, Arenas, Raids) are less about the game and more about the people and teamwork involved. Its your time and effort with others to see what you can collectively accomplish. Those types of activities intrinsically build a sense of community. Or would if they required significant challenge. Most of the game is so plug-and-play (read: easy) you might as well be playing a single player game. The only real community left is the stuff you can't just automatically queue for.

Sure, you can do your dailies while in a group. But there's no meaningful incentive to do so. Rather, there is nothing game-related gained for doing so. You don't get better rewards for getting to Revered in a group of 10, for instance. If you group for dailies it has nothing to do with WoW, so what is the point of the game? If you build a community at all there, that's just up to you, and you don't need to be playing WoW to do it, in that case. Dailies aren't the least bit challenging (for most of us, I hope?). They're monotonous in all the worst ways.

Frankly it is also disappointing (or should my expectations for a world class game company be lower?) that Blizzard thinks daily quests are in any way eligible for rewards comparable to what you can get in 5-mans or PvP or raids. Daily quests are so easy, the hardest part about them is working up the motivation to throw yourself at them again and again. There's no teamwork, no challenge, no greater meaning. Just the grind.

So what is the point of putting such good rewards at the end of a huge rep grind you can ONLY achieve through logging in day in, day out, for months at a time?

There's only one reason for it, its to keep you paying your money to them. Doing dailies isn't about creating community or fun, and defending dailies is just about defending a paycheck.

Put another way, placing "excellent" game rewards at the end of such menial, meaningless tasks is essentially a form of punishment. Its about as close as Blizzard can come to calling their players slaves without actually saying so. "You aren't here to be provided quality entertainment, you're here to mindlessly log in every day, week, month, and keep paying us your money. You want a sense of progression, or certain tradeskill patterns you can't get anywhere else? Here, go do these mind-numbingly easy solo tasks ten thousand times in a rigid singular fashion, there are no alternative ways to complete this content or access these rewards."

Or if they'd like to convince us that this is about making raiding non-mandatory, then start putting all those tradeskill patterns on raid bosses or 5-mans or PvP vendors FFS. Let's let the players choose how they'd like to play the game, instead of dictating required activities.
Well said.


^

Time is money friend. Dailies are an illusion, so Blizzard can suck money out of us slaves.
90 Tauren Druid
3310
11/13/2012 06:03 PMPosted by Bretherezen
I cannot even begin to fathom the reasoning behind why a good bye thread made it to 177 pages...


The only possible explanation is that Blizzard let it. 26 pages is the default max. Any further has to be unlocked by a Blizzard support rep.
90 Draenei Shaman
6775
11/14/2012 10:55 AMPosted by Yandere
So what do you have to say to your guild enchanter? "Nah don't worry about dailies, we can down the next 5 tiers of content without the BiS bracer and weapon enchants or just pay exorbitant amounts on the auction house for them. Sure it will be harder or cost more gold from the guild bank, but we can manage since you don't want to take the time out of your day to do dailies."


Or you just expect your raiders to get their own enchants. You don't have to subsidize it. How they do it is their business. Chances are someone in the guild will want to get the enchants to make gold, and your "problem" is solved. All those other professions you mentioned have their finished products selling for less than the cost of the raw materials.


Sure, lets make the game more about single playing, everyone is by themselves, lets split even raid groups into not helping each other....

And then people say this daily system is better for the community.... Yeah sure.
90 Orc Shaman
13750
So what is the point of putting such good rewards at the end of a huge rep grind you can ONLY achieve through logging in day in, day out, for months at a time?

There's only one reason for it, its to keep you paying your money to them. Doing dailies isn't about creating community or fun, and defending dailies is just about defending a paycheck.


People asked for something to do to keep them logging in, though.

I mean, if you have a better system, by all means go for it.

I'd also point out that I'm done with dailies except for vanity items, and have been for a few weeks, so it isn't that hard to do.
Edited by Hyjinx on 11/14/2012 11:06 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Hunter
4155
Also I have a question for blizzard

Your main point is that u want people to u vary there game play and experience game play of the entire expansion I can understand this. I love the concept

But as z said in this post in not so many words that our money means nothing past a suggestion. That this isnt a democary. I guess I'm asking do we get choice in the. Matter? Do we get a choice in whether we get dictated to get. The rewards That make progression easier.?

Sure dailys are optional but double gatting the gear Is going against the " play with other people" statement I see from blizzard constantly. I guess I'm confused do u want us to experience dailys which is essentially solo content or play with other people? I guess for my self I need it explained to me how this gated. Solo content isn't against the community game play concept
90 Draenei Shaman
11575


Valour gear should have the faction requirement removed (preferred option) or the rate at which valour can be obtained needs to be substantially increased.


The rate at which valor is accrued isn't terrible, the rate at which the faction to be able to use them is. If they want to speed anything up (and for the love of the gods, please do) speed up (or give us other ways) the rep grind for all these reps, ESPECIALLY golden lotus, which seems to be the gatekeeper for using Valor. I rarely jump on the forums, but seriously, fighting with everyone on the server for daily mobs every day (in at least 4 different hubs) is not my idea of a fun way to utilize my valor points.
90 Pandaren Monk
10755
My only issue with this expansion so far is that raiding beyond LFR is a painful experience for guilds with limited time/limited experience pool to deal with. Our guild has one day a week to raid, and we've been attempting the Stone Guard for four weeks straight - and only managed to get them down to 30%.

The attendance rate has slipped from extremely high to extremely low, to the point that we don't know if we can make it for the next week. The guild will suffer as a result and activity will steadily die off.

And Blizzard, doing LFR as a guild simply doesn't cut it. We want to progress, but most of our members have a couple of hours a day at the very most to log in, do a set of dailies, then log out. We feel left out of the raiding loop simply because we don't have the time to play like other guilds.
90 Draenei Shaman
6775

What? How putting rep gear as rep only and valor gear as valor gated only makes sure that valor gear is mandatory? You already need the valor points for that gear...

Double gating is WRONG, nothing should be double gated. And we should let Blizzard know that we dont want things to be double gated.


The dual gating of valor gear is an attempt (although apparently a failed one based on these posts) to point out that they are there as a bonus to those who want to put in the extra effort.

Curious if you could quantify your all capitals use of the word "wrong" here, since I haven't seen lawsuits raised against Blizzard or religious organizations denouncing them. Yeah, my comment is tongue in cheek, but "wrong" in all caps like that seems sufficient hyperbole to warrant it.


FYI WRONG =/= ILLEGAL.

The dual gating of valor gear is there because if rep wasnt gating stupid amounts of rewards most people would not bother with dailies if they werent gating valor gear. Dailies is such a bad and boring system that most people dont care about them unless Blizzard puts this stupid amounts of rewards.

So, since Blizzard wanted to force people into this system, they HAD to put valor gear, professions recipes AND the things that reputations already hold before, like vanity items and mounts. And since that MAY not be enough, thay had to put charms and special drops from daily related satchets.

That is the truth, Blizzard needed to force their playerbase into this system, which is why they put so many rewards behind them.

Blizzard talks about dungeons double dipping is bad and then makes dailies quadra dipping.
Edited by Saanen on 11/14/2012 11:22 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Hunter
4155



agreed. Epics aren't required I totally agree that said
Lfr. And normal 10 are not even in the same universe in difficulty and lfr cant even be used as prep. For 10 man normal was my point on what u quoted

Find me proof that Guilds other then top/hardcore raiding Guilds killed The bosses In pure 463 ilvl gear then I might beilieve this. I'm a full. Beiliever in the blizzard company but when thhey said that I had a hard time beilieving it I ussualy agree with blizzard


3/6 third week in, I haven't gotten above honored with Golden Lotus and my ilvl is 365 first and second place in healing meters, most of my guild uses LFR for gear not dailies.

U are one person. In the guild that is 3/6 are u telling me everyone in said raid group was 463? And still provingnmy point by. Using lfr u are not 463 a nd blizzard claims u don't need epics to progress
Edited by Briteyes on 11/14/2012 11:16 AM PST
87 Undead Rogue
5235
If you ask me, it's a brilliant and brutal business model.

Business man 1: "Let's design something that forces people to be engaged in extremely repetitive tasks which makes us billions of dollars!"

Business man 2: "Ok, we'll put lots of fancy window dressing on it too, so people won't see the checker boarded maze."

Business man 1: "Brilliant, we'll tie in some sort of story to go along with it, and we'll even create a false sense of accomplishment."

Business man 2: "Excellent, I'll contact various people I know who can handle the design aspects. We'll need artists, writers, programmers, managers and all other areas of our pyramid to do it."

Business man 1: "We'll charge them $15.00 a month and call it World of Warcraft!"

Business man 2: "Don't forget, later down the road to start the old classic, "Minimize to Maximize" concept. We'll down-size the business too and lay off tons of the workers we brought in when our profits are soaring. We'll be rich!"

Well folks, my Business Professor was right. "There is only one way to make money in the corporate world, and it's off the suffering of others!"
90 Draenei Shaman
6775


People asked for something to do to keep them logging in, though.

I mean, if you have a better system, by all means go for it.

I'd also point out that I'm done with dailies except for vanity items, and have been for a few weeks, so it isn't that hard to do.


So the bolded part means that you have nothing more to do int he game or that your non bolded part is wrong and not only there is a better system, but its already implemented in MoP itself.
90 Undead Rogue
9160
OP burned himself out leveling 9 alts to 90, and is disheartened to learn that he now needs to farm rep for all those alts. (This is NOT an altoholic friendly expansion.)

In cata you had rep tabards... but that meant there was zero appeal to do dailies when you could get gear from dungeons AND JP for gear from dungeons AND rep to get gear from reputations. No one left major cities after they got their tabards. They would just queue up and occasionally leave to get their rep rewards from factions they never even spoke of. You know its bad when you hear someone in trade; "hey i just hit revered with the Earthen Ring. Does anyone know where the quartermaster is?" It was World of Queuecraft.

Clearly some people want that again. I for one, NEVER want to see that again.

What i DO NOT LIKE is the fact that you have to grind up rep with one faction (the golden lotus) which also gives significantly LESS rep then any other factions, in order to unlock some of the cooler faction dailies, like the Shadowpan. I understand the want to gate some reps to make the experience last longer... but something needs to be done. Either increase the rep awarded for golden lotus dailies, add more of them, or reduce the requirement from revered to honored.
90 Draenei Shaman
6775

You get better raiders if you don't baby them.


You get a better guild and a better community if you use your guild resources to help your guildmates, even if they end up being worse raiders.
90 Undead Rogue
9160
11/14/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Trashpig
Well folks, my Business Professor was right. "There is only one way to make money in the corporate world, and it's off the suffering of others!"


Well you cant really call it suffering. Its a game that we all CHOOSE to play. If you dont enjoy it for any reason. Stop playing, and stop paying.

While its true that WoW players are somewhat of a glutton for punishment...
90 Draenei Shaman
10845
tl;dr: daily quests suck

If there were any point to having a community about WoW? The game world is entirely fictional. "Azeroth" or whatever, isn't relevant at all in any meaningful sense of the word to anyone above the age of 12 or so.

Sure, there's nice artwork. And some pleasing landscapes. And a generally fun-ish array of minor distractions. But there's nothing really relevant about the fantasy world itself, except perhaps its "art" value.

So its natural that daily quests that force people to repetitively engage with the paper-thin, nonsensical, and ultimately goes-nowhere lore of the game also force them to constantly examine their relationship with the game world and what that means for them in the larger context of their lives.

For a lot of people, I think, the group activities are able to maintain their relevance over long periods of time because those activities (5-man dungeons, PvP battlegrounds, Arenas, Raids) are less about the game and more about the people and teamwork involved. Its your time and effort with others to see what you can collectively accomplish. Those types of activities intrinsically build a sense of community. Or would if they required significant challenge. Most of the game is so plug-and-play (read: easy) you might as well be playing a single player game. The only real community left is the stuff you can't just automatically queue for.

Sure, you can do your dailies while in a group. But there's no meaningful incentive to do so. Rather, there is nothing game-related gained for doing so. You don't get better rewards for getting to Revered in a group of 10, for instance. If you group for dailies it has nothing to do with WoW, so what is the point of the game? If you build a community at all there, that's just up to you, and you don't need to be playing WoW to do it, in that case. Dailies aren't the least bit challenging (for most of us, I hope?). They're monotonous in all the worst ways.

Frankly it is also disappointing (or should my expectations for a world class game company be lower?) that Blizzard thinks daily quests are in any way eligible for rewards comparable to what you can get in 5-mans or PvP or raids. Daily quests are so easy, the hardest part about them is working up the motivation to throw yourself at them again and again. There's no teamwork, no challenge, no greater meaning. Just the grind.

So what is the point of putting such good rewards at the end of a huge rep grind you can ONLY achieve through logging in day in, day out, for months at a time?

There's only one reason for it, its to keep you paying your money to them. Doing dailies isn't about creating community or fun, and defending dailies is just about defending a paycheck.

Put another way, placing "excellent" game rewards at the end of such menial, meaningless tasks is essentially a form of punishment. Its about as close as Blizzard can come to calling their players slaves without actually saying so. "You aren't here to be provided quality entertainment, you're here to mindlessly log in every day, week, month, and keep paying us your money. You want a sense of progression, or certain tradeskill patterns you can't get anywhere else? Here, go do these mind-numbingly easy solo tasks ten thousand times in a rigid singular fashion, there are no alternative ways to complete this content or access these rewards."

Or if they'd like to convince us that this is about making raiding non-mandatory, then start putting all those tradeskill patterns on raid bosses or 5-mans or PvP vendors FFS. Let's let the players choose how they'd like to play the game, instead of dictating required activities.


This nailed it. Everyone should read this.
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]