11/12/2012 04:30 PMWhat pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?
Posted by Zarhym
The answer will probably vary between people, but dailies give you so much
that it will inevitably feel like you're crippling yourself if you don't do them.
Is this really a surprise to Blizzard? Every single thing about the MoP endgame is obviously designed to funnel players into dailies. Everything gives you VP, but only dailies let you spend VP. Dailies give you rep (which is a goal in and of itself for some people, though I'm not one of them), mounts, achievements, titles, gold, valor, the ability to spend valor, charms of good fortune, vanity items, trade goods, trade recipes, Wrathion rep (for all intents and purposes), and the ability to ride cloud serpents. The only things dailies don't give you are justice (which is kind of useless this expansion) and PvP currency.
I doubt anyone wants all of those things. But I think we can pretty much guarantee that everyone wants at least one or two, and since several of the more important ones (the ability to spend valor and charms) aren't available any other way, I think it's safe to say we're always going to feel gimped if we don't do dailies.
So if you decide that you don't want to do the dailies, you just feel your endgame shrink and your options for progression fall away. This is why I've cancelled my sub until such time as the endgame is repaired.
For me, valor is what I can't live without. For me, the endgame has always been about farming valor (and emblems before that). It's what I enjoy. I like having a clear goal with measurable progress, not praying to RNG gods. But I refuse to do something I don't enjoy in a game, so I'm not doing the valor dailies, so I have no reason to log in. My endgame has evaporated. I'm only logging on to my 90 once a week to do LFR, and then it's off to leveling my monk or Guild Wars 2.
I like dailies; just not these
dailies. They're not well-designed, and feeling like I have to do them every day on every character sucks the fun out of them. I like Tillers because they're better designed quests, you progress quickly, and you don't lose much if you skip a day. Golden Lotus, on the other hand, is one of the worst daily grinds I've ever seen. Dull and uncreative quests, too much competition because of the small quest areas, pitifully small rep rewards from each quest, no plot to speak of. I'd rather go back to Quel'danas -- at least it had that fun bombing run, and everything felt connected to a greater plot. Why do I need to collect worms to fight off a Mogu invasion?
Ultimately, as people are so fond of pointing out, you can choose not to do the dailies, but that's not really what I'd call a choice. I can run scenarios or dungeons to get valor is a choice. Do dailies or opt out of a core progression system is not a choice: it's an ultimatum.
Zarhym, I'm not someone who necessarily wants to bring back reputation tabards, and I don't mind doing dailies (although some of the individual dailies are bad). But I feel you're coming off disingenuous at best (and oblivious at worst) to ask why people feel like they are forced into doing dailies. If you guys have been reading only 25% of what's been discussed on the forums and elsewhere, you'd know why people feel forced into it.
The answer is simple - because Blizzard made the decision to require reputation for valor point gear and for many crafting recipes. Yes, it's true that most people don't *really* need those items, but by now you should know your player base well enough to realize that a very large portion of people will feel obligated and pressured to do anything that improves their gear - regardless of whether the pressure is only internal or coming from their guild.
I only started in WotLK, but as far as I know never before has Blizzard had the combination of requiring reputation for so many top-end items and only providing dailies as a way to get that reputation.
Also having it be required to reach Revered with Golden Lotus before you can start Shado-Pan or August Celestial dailies just adds to the frustration. One argument people make is "you don't have to do all of them!" But if I want *anything* from Shado-Pan or AC, I have to do lots and lots of GL dailies. As an enchanter if I want all the recipes - then I have to get Revered with all three factions.
And finally, I think you're underestimating how frustrating some of the dailies are, even if you don't mind dailies as a concept. You have dailies with low drop rates (the Klaxxi ones), dailies where you have too few mobs being targeted by too many players ("Fatty Goat Steak" and some of the other Tiller dailies); and too many dailies that are just generic "kill X number of mobs, farm Y number of items" (i.e. - Golden Lotus). The quests and quest hubs seem to have strange randomization - I've heard of people reaching Exalted with the Golden Lotus without ever doing "Roll Club" or the Cloud Serpents without ever having to do a dragon race. And with GL - if there's one particular daily you don't like, you can't just skip it, because doing so can prevent you from unlocking all the following hubs.
So yes, there's a lot of frustration - and I think a lot of people wish Blizzard would provide a response other than "why do feel forced?" when the answer is pretty obvious, or you don't comment on some of the mechanics that make the individual dailies so frustrating.
This. Very, very much this.