World of Warcraft®

Gonna be honest, my biggest problem with the rep gates is the recipes.

I have Exalted on all the major Pandaria factions on my main.

The problem is, this is my Tailoring/Enchanting alt. I have been faithfully making Imperial Silk on her almost every day since the expansion started.

And yet, to use that on almost anything worthwhile, I will have to redo the Golden Lotus/August Celestials grind. Which isn't looking fun right now.

I mean, if I could just run heroics on her without a care in the world, grab a few upgrades, and jump into LFR, that would be one thing.

But I need more bag space, and especially since there's no "Green" bag like there has been past expansions, I will need to grind to at least Honored on one faction and at least exalted on another just to expand my bag space.

Sure, I COULD buy Royal Satchels on the AH, but... That still leaves me with 2 stacks of Imperial Silk on my alt.

And besides, I spent all my money making my rocket ship.

I mean, it's not like recipes haven't been on rep vendors before. I can deal with that, per se.

But having to run that ENTIRE rep grind all over again, dailies only, AND not even be able to make, say, a couple 26 slot bags using Windwool Cloth bolts and maybe a mysterious essence to tide me over until I hit exalted? Feels a little bad, man.

Crafting mains > crafting alts. You suggested buying and that's what you can do if you don't want to put the effort into getting the recipe.

11/12/2012 04:44 PMPosted by Sterria

Another sticking point is you brought up being forced to either do dailies or PvP. Why? Looking only at progression of character power at 90, do you not want to do scenarios, dungeons, or raids? What pushes you into reputation progression such that you feel you have to do it x9 and burn out on the game?

Putting valour gear behind reputation is a terrible idea. Basically you are paying for the gear twice. First you have to obtain the valour to spend and then you have to do a never ending stream of dailies to gain enough faction to purchase the gear. With the amount of time it takes to accumulate 1000 valour it does feel like work and detracts from the enjoyment of the game.

Valour gear should have the faction requirement removed (preferred option) or the rate at which valour can be obtained needs to be substantially increased.

Personally I never do scenarios, they seem like a waste of time for minimal reward. Much better to do a dungeon where there is the chance of loot and justice points (poor forgotten hard to come by justice points) and they are fun, with the sole exception of Shado Pan Monastery, I always drop group on that one.

its not a never ending stream, im exalted with all of them already, no more dailies for me....

11/12/2012 07:14 PMPosted by Vaedrin

They don't need it to raid. They do need it to stay off the bottom of the DPS meters and avoid being benched on progression night for the guy who HAS been doing his dailies, has better gear through valor... and has 2x a shot of getting a major upgrade from the boss as you do because he's got Elder Charms ready to go.

Then perhaps they have chosen the wrong raid group if this is not a scenario they enjoy. If they don't enjoy the competitiveness, then they could always go for a more casual raid.

They're making a choice to put themselves in a situation where they feel like they need that gear. They are not really being forced into it.

As for elder charms, it gets to a point where you have far more than you need per week. You really don't have to do dailies very often to get enough for the three elder charms.

There are two huge problems with this game.

Weekly lockouts are one. A lot of people log on for a couple of hours to do raid finder and various other weekly things, then don't touch the game after those lockouts are in place. If a player wants to do content to earn gear, let them. I understand that you don't want people playing 70 hours straight to earn best in slot, but you could at least think about adding some type of "diminishing returns" for loot (let me specify, a player can always do whatever content they want to do, and there's always a chance for them to get the loot they want, even if the chance to get that loot lessens with each run, but never reaches zero). It's never a good idea to tell your players that they can't do something they love doing.

The separation of PvP and PvE is number two. Splitting the game down the middle was not wise, the game was SO much more connected in Vanilla. Players got to see both sides of this glorious game, but now you have to pick PvE or PvP as your main focus. This hits even harder on casual players, because they don't invest the time to master both play styles, and collect both gear sets.

Obviously these are my opinions, and I'm sure many disagree.

11/12/2012 06:54 PMPosted by Zarhym

zahrym what you said is offensive.

That's silly. The idea that I should have a placating "grin and bear it" approach to players on the forums -- as was discussed last week -- is what you should actually find offensive. And I'm only responding to this to make a quick point:

A lot of people have called my recent posts (and me personally) any number of negative things. Let me just say that I read a lot of great critical posts on the forums everyday -- there are some great ones in this thread. And we're constantly discussing the feedback with our developers. Just because I'm challenging a person's analysis of the game doesn't mean I'm not listening to them, or don't think they're making any good points.

If I can offer counterpoints to threads that will focus the debate on further specifics and details of a topic, that allows me to take more succinct feedback to the developers, often times including many of the great suggestions I see. ;)

Just let it be known there's a reason I started my post this way:

There is definitely legitimacy to your post, and we've been reading a lot of the feedback players have been sharing lately as we evaluate our endgame progression systems. Even as World of Warcraft evolves over each expansion, and as happy as we are with the experience we crafted for Mists of Pandaria, we always know we can do better.

Anyway! :)

Because you have locked away a portion of the progression path behind endless dailies.

But character progression isn't blocked entirely "behind endless dailies." You can get into Raid Finder without any reputation rewards. Sure, it's clearly more effective to be earning some steady reputation with the core factions (which is the point) while running other content, but that's less relevant when an argument is made in absolute statements, such as "forced," "mandatory," and "locked away."

I'm not naive and I know that if you invest more time into your character by doing dailies along side your group content, your rate of progression will be faster. And again, that's by design. But certainly we enjoy hearing feedback about the design and how things could be tweaked to improve the model.

For instance, we talked recently to the developers about an evolution on the idea of being able to champion a faction via a tabard. What we don't want to repeat is the design that let players max out every faction reputation just by wearing a tabard while doing other content. So instead of endlessly getting reputation for every dungeon, maybe you only get a bonus once a day. It doesn't allow you to skip dailies altogether, but you can at least pad your rep gains a little bit.

Another cool part about this idea is that we can probably make it work through the UI, rather than requiring you to wear a tabard you may not think matches your bracers (teehee). It could be as simple as making it so that you champion the faction you selected to show as your XP bar.

And since it's brought up a lot, I completely understand the existing concerns players have about earning Valor through other sources and being locked from spending it for reputation rewards. It's something we'll continue to talk about -- be precise and feel free to suggest improvements!

It's worth throwing out there that it really doesn't take many daily quests to hit Honored with Golden Lotus, and you can easily hit Honored with The Klaxxi before you even unlock their daily quests. So it doesn't take much to give you a bear minimum of two ilvl 458 blues to spend JP on, and two ilvl 489 epics to spend VP on. That's a pretty fair boon if you're climbing to ilvl 460.

Important! I want to make sure it's totally clear one last time. I'm not saying our model is perfect and your feedback is incorrect. I'm trying to offer counterpoints so we can all signal in on the root of some of the popular concerns within the community. Operative word: TRYING. :D

I like the fact that you troll in an intellectual, respectful way. However, there is issues to your replies, and it is the same issues all "blue" posts have.
YOU REPLY TO THE WRONG PEOPLE! I wish I could have the hope that typing out 9 paragraphed comments on ways to help WOW would get read by the community manager and things would get changed, but you never reply to those kind of people. Just these idiots who just decide tht the game isnt worth playing, even though they are keeping ther subscriptions live.

I have a friend, best friend, hes been playing since vanilla. Me an him sit around late nights talking about how we could change wow for the better, what-if scenarios and such, we always say how we are going to email blizzard in the morning and tell them of all these ideas we have, but you know how these conversations always end? "Yea lol, like blizzard would ever do that."

Though I commend you for your trolling skills, stop doing that for a bit and check out some of these peoples ideas, then walk into your bosses office and apply some of that trolling talent you have and that way maybe he will walk into HIS bosses office and something could get done. There is no way to make EVERYONE happy, but if some of these ideas legit make the game better, might be worth replying to.

Speaking of seeing you guys do something more often, I havnt seen a GM actually appear in game in years. You guys should show us you actually exist and care about us sometimes :D

11/12/2012 06:54 PMPosted by Zarhym

A lot of people have called my recent posts (and me personally) any number of negative things. Let me just say that I read a lot of great critical posts on the forums everyday -- there are some great ones in this thread. And we're constantly discussing the feedback with our developers. Just because I'm challenging a person's analysis of the game doesn't mean I'm not listening to them, or don't think they're making any good points.

Just going to put this out there for the community.

If you're going to act childish, be prepared to be treated as a child.

If you want your community managers to treat you gently, it is on YOU to be civil in your posts.

Zarhym, you and the other CMs deserve combat pay for what you have to wade through sometimes.

Why not put in offline service for alt characters similar to the way Assassins Creed Brtotherhood, Revelations has missions to send your Assassins on set missions while they are offline

Send them on various lore objective quests. The time could be anywhere from 30m to 72 hours. On completion of their offline task the player must log back into that character and see the result and get the reward if successful. The reward could be a small portion of rep for a faction they have discovered, a rare chance at an item/pet or mount, some gold, some tokens. Whatever.

Maybe the ability to send alts on an offline quest as above should be unlocked by the main character via a lengthy quest. Sh*t I don't know you guys are the designers, not me.

11/12/2012 07:16 PMPosted by Odyn

what if there was a system in place to let the players adjust the type of rewards we get for doing the dailies, for instance we could sacrifice some or all of the valor and gold rewarded by the dailies for an increase in reputation gained, and then later when we dont need the rep we could substitute that for more valor and or gold, and when we dont need valor we could just do the dailies for gold if and or when we need it

Good idea

\

Any serious raider is already exalted with all the factions and didn't complain about it in the mean time.

I'm a serious raider. I didn't do them. I just cancelled my subscription instead. I did enough questing from 85-90. I find it a boring waste of my time and I don't want to do them for another 80 hours over the course of a month before I'm raid viable in my guild.

Only mention it because you made a blanket statement that's moronic.

I don't know too many serious raiders that just bail on their guild over some dailies. It really doesn't sound like you take it that seriously.

I'm a serious raider. I didn't do them. I just cancelled my subscription instead. I did enough questing from 85-90. I find it a boring waste of my time and I don't want to do them for another 80 hours over the course of a month before I'm raid viable in my guild.

Only mention it because you made a blanket statement that's moronic.

I'm not revered with any faction other than Order of the Cloud Serpent and Tillers and I raid, this tier was designed around an item level of 463 if you can't raid without epics I apologize.

And your DPS sucked compared to people who did their dailies and had better gear unless you're raiding with inferior players, and it took you twice as long to gear as someone who burned Elder Charms on the right bosses. And you must have thousands of Valor Points sitting on your currency tab gathering dust.

Why is this a good game design again?

Why not put in offline service for alt characters similar to the way Assassins Creed Brotherhood, Revelations has missions to send your Assassins on set missions while you are playing as the main character.

Send them on various lore objective quests. The time could be anywhere from 30m to 72 hours. On completion of their offline task the player must log back into that character and see the result and get the reward if successful. The reward could be a small portion of rep for a faction they have discovered, a rare chance at an item/pet or mount, some gold, some tokens. Whatever.

Maybe the ability to send alts on an offline quest as above should be unlocked by the main character via a lengthy quest. Sh*t I don't know you guys are the designers, not me.

Yeah the whole 28g per boss kill is retarded. I quit raiding on all my toons.

It's just not fun.

The devs trying to say that using a tabard to gain rep is a bad idea. This is just like how Ghostcrawler tried to convince everyone that heroics at the start of cata was fine until he was proven wrong. Zarhym the devs need to just admit there wrong and fix it to include tabards as a way to get rep before this blows up in the devs face. It's easier for you guys to save face now and admit your wrong then let this continue any further cause customers don't enjoy the fact that tabards are useless now. $$$$