Please make Challenge Modes harder

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100 Tauren Death Knight
19630
I've personally been enjoying challenge modes because, even if you mention that you have to have invis pots to clear trash, you're forgetting that there are TONS of cases where you have to have a group tuned with CCs and chain CCing, your healer has to be amazing and your tank has to be spot on with personal defensives in order to not to not be smeared across the floor.

It still takes a heavy amount of skill to be able to pull full rooms of buffed adds with 463 gear and continue moving while burning them down, avoiding damage, CCing AND ensuring you do whatever it takes to stay alive, or skip lore that would otherwise waste time.
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
11/07/2012 07:04 PMPosted by Soulglol
Pretty much stupid that the trash is harder than the boss 99.99% of the time. That's not what they should be about, the bosses should actually be a challenge. Like take Sha of Violence, double or triple it, and make that every boss.


Ya, this pretty much, TBC usually had this issue too, but there were still some bosses, like most people forget the chick in Mechnar, that felt just as epic killing her the first time as killing some heroic bosses. (Pretty much everyone skipped her)
90 Goblin Shaman
15035
Idk, I actually like CM's they way they are.

Now I'd be all for it if they wanted to add like another mode to appease those not happy with it. A horde mode of a sorts like has been brought up earlier in this thread might work.
2 Undead Mage
0
Knowing which trash packs to skip, and when to use your invis potions, is most certainly an interesting definition of "Challenge".
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
11/08/2012 01:20 AMPosted by Coneofcold
Knowing which trash packs to skip, and when to use your invis potions, is most certainly an interesting definition of "Challenge".


Ya, the weird part is, all the challenge modes sync up perfect with that 1 pack to skip, they were designed with that in mind.

Could just not have that pack and disable invis pots.
Edited by Postonforums on 11/8/2012 1:31 AM PST
90 Goblin Shaman
15035
11/08/2012 01:20 AMPosted by Coneofcold
Knowing which trash packs to skip, and when to use your invis potions, is most certainly an interesting definition of "Challenge".
Then they should rename it to Time Trial to avoid semantic issues. :P
90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
I don't even think Blizzard could make this game like they did in TBC. Classes have too many abilities and too many cooldowns, you can CC without pulling, etc.

I remember tanks getting almost destroyed by 2 dogs and a Burning Blade Destroyer (true to it's name). I remember when a healer just couldn't heal that damage with single target heals, I remember off-tanking dogs on my rogue with evasion to get the damage off the tank.

These things, tanks have too many cooldowns for this, healers as well. My rogue has way too many options to survive that dog now.

Even today I would just take my shaman into that situatioin and pop ascendance and obliterate the whole pack. In TBC, threat would have stopped me from doing that, but not today.
Edited by Firestyle on 11/8/2012 6:57 AM PST
100 Orc Death Knight
17925
Or going forward they could simply make the instances based on killing pretty much everything within reason. Would be easily doable by just adjusting the timer and the trash requirement.
90 Troll Shaman
13765
I was also expecting more of a challenge in the sense that you had to CC and use all your abilities to counter certain mechanics. Currently, all we do is pop big cooldowns and AoE down waves and waves of trash. Sure, it's difficult because the trash hits hard, and some mobs need to be silenced/chain-stunned, but it's still not all too difficult. The challenge lies in beating the timer, and really, that's just about not dying and doing above-average DPS.
100 Blood Elf Warlock
14050
Note: 3 Golds so far. It so difficult to find consistent groups :*(

I also feel that bosses are way too easy, but also too short. With a BL some fights are under a minute long. That is just not enough time for a fight to really be difficult. The longer the fight, the more time there is for someone to make a mistake. It is much more difficult to have to deal with a mechanic 10 times than it is to have to avoid is once and then the fight is over before the boss can do it again.

Bosses could also use an extra ability (the only boss I have seen this done to is Wise Mari in Temple of the Jade Serpent with that water bolt he does on CM). It is nice that these dungeons are more difficult number-wise, but since everyone has pretty much done the Heroic version countless times to get gear, something new would make the instances a little more interesting mechanic-wise. It doesn't need to be something that completely changes the fight, just something that makes the fight more than extra health and damage. For example, Razorgore's Bone Shields in Scholomance could deal stacking damage over time so you don't want to click it unless he is casting his ability on you, or Armsmaster Harlan in Scarlet Halls could shoot out projectiles during his whirlwind phase that land on random parts of the ground (indicated by circles on the ground) that stuns a player who happens to get hit by it for 10 seconds or so (which pretty much means death).

Don't get me wrong. Challenge Modes are fun, but I personally feel that any "boss" worthy of the name should be more threatening than the trash.
Edited by Ryusaki on 11/8/2012 6:04 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
14580
I agree that the trash was more annoying than any boss we encountered. It was like a break for me whenever we got to a boss, mostly because I didn't have to heal much and tended to gain more mana than I spent.

We also expected to be using more CC, as well. We found that just choosing heavy AoE specs was more beneficial, though. Occasionally, we used Ring of Frost or Shockwave for a mass CC, but there was hardly any need for single-target ones.

A few of them were challenging to heal, but I LOVE (really) doing attempts and figuring out almost to the exact percentage how much mana I can use before I have time to drink or regen next. Remembering the tank gets smashed here, needs an external cd there, smite the !@#$ out of this next pack...

It was fun. I like them how they are, personally. The only one I didn't enjoy was Stormstout Brewery simply because I had to switch to shadow for the last boss. I hate shadow.
Edited by Lumidelle on 11/10/2012 3:10 PM PST
100 Worgen Mage
19135
CM Golds are fine in difficulty where they are if you're not using the most optimal comps. Optimal comps, yeah, maybe a little bit easier than intended. Plus Marza's awesome guide thread has gotten the word out about where to use invis pots, what to watch out for, etc, lol. It's sorta like raiding where vids help out a ton too and take away some of the challenge.

I'd personally like to still see a Challenge Mode board made here, and later CMs not using consumables to make them more accessible (or limiting it more).

The thing I'm wondering about CMs is how many Gold players will keep doing it for the leaderboard like Blizzard intended, or stopping after they got their transmog.
Edited by Digerati on 11/10/2012 3:45 PM PST
90 Pandaren Monk
8325
You could run them naked.
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
11/10/2012 03:59 PMPosted by Ayve
You could run them naked.


You can turn the buff off.
100 Dwarf Paladin
18435
I don't have that understanding at all. I think Blizzard intended them for a minority of the players, even for bronze.

I agree, I've tried them a little with "average" players (I count myself there), and it would take a fair bit of practice to even get bronze.

And I take it in addition to more health/damage all the mobs and bosses have additional abilities which aren't listed in the dungeon journal? Like Wise Mari shooting streams of frostbolts at anyone more than 20 yards away? Also some trash mobs in Scholomance will Fear which they sure don't do on regular heroic. My experience is limited though.

I sure wouldn't want to pug these, and I think that was Blizzard's intention. Failing on them is fine as long as you learn. Having whining, griping, elitist pugs along just makes it too stressful.
Edited by Slainidh on 11/10/2012 7:08 PM PST
100 Orc Death Knight
19725
CM Golds are fine in difficulty where they are if you're not using the most optimal comps. Optimal comps, yeah, maybe a little bit easier than intended. Plus Marza's awesome guide thread has gotten the word out about where to use invis pots, what to watch out for, etc, lol. It's sorta like raiding where vids help out a ton too and take away some of the challenge.

I'd personally like to still see a Challenge Mode board made here, and later CMs not using consumables to make them more accessible (or limiting it more).

The thing I'm wondering about CMs is how many Gold players will keep doing it for the leaderboard like Blizzard intended, or stopping after they got their transmog.


The funny part of course is that those guides are nowhere near optimal, The idea is just to get people less frustrated and more thinking along the lines of what CM's entail, you can do VASTLY better (and the leaderboards bear that out) and it's not just better play - there are insane strats to try and I wish I had time to. The best part of CMs is sitting there with buddies in mumble thinking of what we could do differently to get a faster time.

I do hope the consumable requirement is lower in the future, it's just an annoyance. I think Invis brings some nice strategy to the runs, it would be WAY too boring if you just literally had to pull every trash mob in every zone. I also think they're far too obnoxious to farm, and there's too big a benefit to being certain professions and the like in CMs.

Difficulty-wise...I think they're fine. Yeah it's easy to blow the time out of the water with an optimal comp, but I think you SHOULD be able to do them with most comps, and right now you can. I also don't think there's much point in a mode that is balanced around the top 2-3 CM groups in the world. They can always go for Leaderboard rankings regardless of 'gold' or 'silver' designations.
90 Undead Death Knight
Eon
7570
Am I confused?
Pretty sure Wise Mari can be done with virtually 0 damage taken. I guess you're trolling and it went over my head. :[
Edited by Xionic on 11/10/2012 7:50 PM PST
100 Orc Death Knight
17925
The new abilitiy wise mari does only hits you if you stand too far away from him ;o
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
11/10/2012 07:53 PMPosted by Gròmmash
The new abilitiy wise mari does only hits you if you stand too far away from him ;o


Outside the ring, but you get a pretty obvious place to stand
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