Get the Desktop App for Battle.net Now
- All your games in 1 place
- Log in once
- Automatic game updates
When I dance they call me macarena
and the boys they say that I´m buena
they all want me, they can´t have me
So they all come and dance beside me
move with me jam with me
and if your good i take you home with me
A la tuhuelpa legria macarena
Que tuhuelce paralla legria cosabuena
A la tuhuelpa legria macarena Eeeh, macarena
Majority means more than half at the very minimum to use the word correctly... Wowprogress only goes back to tier 8
You can use the following links to view which guilds progressed in the older content:
What you will find is Fatal Union on all of those pages (alongside a lot of guilds that no longer exist).
Maybe it should be changed to consistently? I've yet to see another guild maintain such a dominate force on this server over the course of such a long time frame (and i've only been in FU for a short portion of the time). EDIT: when this topic ever comes up in guild many people put FU and Dosi quite near each other throughout Classic and TBC, with many current longtime members holding many realm first achieves for T7 raids.
Consistently? I just disproved that, but ok. I dunno, when I app to a guild, I don't check their realm forums to verify that they have a post with likely the exact same information on it as whatever lead me to a guild in the first place (almost invariably the case), but to each their own. We post recruitment info here because we get a lot of applications from here. In fact, looking at our recent apps, the last 7 have come from Kargath (5 are in trial), with Tail being the combo-breaker.
And on your last point, why not move to Illidan? Well for one, many of us have multiple toons that provide us and the guild with many more benefits than just our 1 main character. Purely moving the main raid team alone would cost about $300 for their mains. Adding in alt characters we're looking at quite possibly a $1000-$2000 investment which still doesn't include our second team and their alts and other people who help out within the guild.
I moved my main over here over a year ago and left my alts in place on my old server (Elune), honestly it's never really been a BFD past the annoyances of the initial move. The only times it can be annoying is if someone is gouging on the AH for something I need quickly, but in most cases there is someone in guild who is willing to save my purity. So really it’s $20 per person, which is a case of good beer, or 2 cases of crappy beer, seems worth it for more long-term happiness with something that a lot of time is invested into. I always heard good things about the Illidan as a server but I’ve never actually played there so I’ll digress, but I was just using it as an example of another server with a much healthier and more competitive Horde side.
Lastly, why *would* we move to Sargeras? The reason I posed the question is because FU seems entirely unsatisfied with Kargath and the Kargath community, this has been expressed over, and over, and over. We (generally) do not share that sentiment, nor do we have the same goals. I like only raiding 10 hours a week, being in a large socially well-adjusted group of people, getting full-body pics of kderps, and having guild pornuh experiences (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjGRkVSrCZs). I want to be well-progressed, but I don’t care to work for realm firsts or to try to be competitive with people who have lifestyle advantages or otherwise prioritize WOW higher than I do; I leave that to Coolsky. ^_^
Edited by Novae on 11/20/2012 10:16 AM PST
I feel like you're just trying to push buttons instead of using logic Novae, but I shall amuse you with a response =)
Fatal Union was the top guild in T7, 3rd (again not counting Eternal) for T10, and back to top for T12, 13, and 14. As far as number's go, that's 50% (T8, 9, 10, 11 = 4 tiers, 7, 12, 13, 14 = 4) of the tiers available just going back to Wrath. Add in BC where FU was top for BT and Sunwell, that's another half an expansion. While Vanilla wasn't the best moments for the guild, they were still in the mix for #2 on server for progression after Dosi trumped every other guild the server had to offer. The other guilds fighting for #2 no longer exist that I'm aware of, nor does Dosi. As such, Fatal Union has consistently been the longest running, competitive guild capable of being described as dominating the server in progression. So while in pure technicalities Fatal Union may not have been #1 most of the time, it's the only guild that has been able to stick around and prove it's capabilities. We're no Blood Legion who can claim #1 on server from the start of time, but that was never the original claim. (Again I remind you my comment was from a consistency standpoint.)
Has Electric Sheep (and other guilds as well) done well? Yes. I'd count ES as one of the last legitimate kills of Heroic: Madness before the nerfs became so lol that any group of mouth breathers could take him down but I digress at that discussion.
On your other point. Moving a single player and having guildies help out is one thing. Moving the entire base of a guild is another. You're comparing cardboard to cheesecake.
Are we unsatisfied with Kargath? Some definitely are. Others enjoy the realm as longtime members of the community and would rather not leave(and hope for the realm to return to its glory days). Others have many friends on the server that they enjoy playing with/helping out in addition to enjoying the raiding atmosphere Fatal Union has to offer. CRZ doesn't necessarily fix this issue (eg not being able to trade items/gold between characters with different home realms). It's not illegal to love your guild and dislike your realm. Is it necessary for us to move? Nah.
As for the recruitment post, we still do have Kargath recruits who either make it or not in the guild. I can name 2-3 people in the main raiding group who have come from guilds on Kargath within the last 4 months. That's reason enough to keep a recruitment post in the forums here.
I await your inevitable response with some excuse/claim that any and/or all points of my post here are false and have no validity. =)
Edited by Aryvei on 11/20/2012 12:33 PM PST
Omfg Novae did you seriously just post that video? Rude.
There goes my last shred of dignity!
Staying out of this argument though, mostly because I find it boring and unnecessary :< However, I will say Aryvei is a legit QT
Awww what's this then? I haven't so far attempted to denounce any actual information that's been put forward in defense of the claim, not even information from Watch's other recollections (although I will debunk one later). I did get a kick out of the accusation that I am illogical because I did not adopt your logical path to conclusion, but I'll not be dragged into a name-calling contest, let's keep it highbrow ladies and gentleman.
The links that Syphil linked actually support my point, because it looks like there were other guilds further progressed than FU for Vanilla (for Naxx at least 3 guilds got further in, having no dates on anything makes everything else impossible to assess), and the wotlk link shows no pre-nerf Malygos kill while others did (which if accurate, debunk's Watch's claim of finishing on top for tier 7).
To be clear, I wasn't arguing that FU has not been a highly competitive guild since inception, that much is seems clear as day; What I am debunking the claim that FU is the "most progressed guild on Kargath for a majority of the last 6 years", which is a very specific claim, with a lot of evidence to the contrary. Even if you count all of T12 which is *very* generous (you guys were not first on *any* heroic leading up to Rag), the volume of time just doesn't add up with a likely story. To be specific, between April 2009 (start of T8 and WowPorgress tracking) and September 2011 (Realm first Rag kill), FU appeared to have never killed *anything* first other than some occasion normal mode encounters. That's almost 2 and a half years of not being on top. Check my work if you'd like: http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/us/kargath/Fatal+Union/rating.tier12_10 . Stack on the Malygos time and you're already dreadfully close to pushing over the 3 years mark. Really, the only way one could reason the claim to be true is to extrapolate the missing information in the most favorable posture with regard to the claim, but that doesn't seem very objective, or likely, but I'll aknowledge that it is possible. Regardless, this is the requirement for it to even be technically correct, common usage of terminology is still being trampled even in an optimal case.
Maybe my reading comprehension isn't what it used to be, maybe the nuerons in my brain got fried by tryptophan (happy Thanksgiving btw), maybe I suddenly became a moody old man who can not impartially look at data, maybe I'm blinded by my own jealous rage...
bump and <3 ?
Waggles gets lo', to the window, to the walls.
Edited by Novae on 11/23/2012 4:53 PM PST
Maybe you forgot that line, but there it is again. You have disproved the original claim that Fatal Union has not been the clear cut #1 all the time, but you have never disproved my correction to the matter that Fatal Union has been the #1 consistent force on the server. One doesn't have to be the top guild all the time to be considered great/consistent. Many great guilds have points where they do slip down the ladder, but always climb back up. Most of the guilds that beat FU during T8-T11 and back in Classic/BC can be classified as followed:
1) A one time show
2) Good for a tier and then backed off
None of which showed lasting value beyond being a good/stable guild at best when it comes to progression.
Unfortunately this notion is not what makes a guild ranked #1 for a progression tier. If you look back on many tiers, the end ranked #1 guild has sometimes not had any top world kills except the last boss and yet they're still ranked on top for the notion that they cleared the instance first. Why just last tier (Dragon Soul) 즐거운공격대 (KR-Kargath) came to be ranked #1 with only deathwing world firsts, the rest of their kills never ranked above 14, and after that none before mid to late 40s. Their Morchok Kill was #2974 in the world which was after both FU and Ethos had long been finished with him. In fact, Blood Legion (US-Illidan) had half the world first kills for Dragon soul and ended with world 4th because, get this, they cleared heroic madness 4th. You can be 2nd the majority of a race, but if you finish first you're still top dog of the tier.
2.5<3 which is also less than 1/2 of 6. Correct me if my math is wrong.
Funny that I can armory about 4-5 members pretty quick and see their Realm first FoS for Maly, Naxx, and/or Sarth. Don't believe everything you read in those outdated wowpedia links.
So here's a quick summary:
Your first post cleared up that the phrase "FU has been the most progressed guild on Kargath for a majority of the last 6 years." is very likely a stretch (a point which I haven't denied).
My first comment stemmed from the idea that Fatal Union has been consistently the best guild on the server overall and that none other has claimed the number of awards and is still around to show them off. Not necessarily #1 a majority of the time (though still damn close), but merely the longest lasting dominate guild the server has seen. Since then you've combated that my statements as false and that my research incomplete. I'll be the first to admit Fatal Union's defeats/faults, but I'll be right there defending this guild the same (even if I should leave).
That Lich King link is ridiculously -- laughably -- incomplete, and basing your conclusions on that page would be a really dumb thing to do.
According to that link, Aesir and Ethos are the only guilds to clear 25-man Naxx "at level".
12/01/2008 -- Lich King was released on November 13, 2008.
And let's not forget:
Which clearly means a Horde guild got the realm first, which only further supports the ineptitude of that page and its information.
You can pretty much tell that some guilds were really into updating that page at the start, then Ulduar came out and nearly no one updated; move forward to ToC and ICC and you have zero information.
Basing your conclusions on that page is an exercise in retardation. Sherlock Holmes would be ashamed.
Edited by Sequoyah on 11/24/2012 1:31 PM PST
90 Troll Druid
No fights in any tier count except for the last boss. Just like Will, Empress, and Sha in this tier.
Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.
Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.
Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.