Why do hybrids have healing at all?

90 Human Mage
11/11/2012 10:02 PMPosted by Zevahcotineb
We aren't discussing whether or not pures should have healing. This is about why hybrids specs should be able to off heal, when making them in essence, "pure DPS" would probably fix a lot balance issues in PvP.

Dps hybrid specs have heals because they are balanced around it. They have the ability to heal themselves and others but sacrifice things like control, defensive cooldowns, and escape mechanisms that the pures have.

Dps hybrid specs have heals because it adds variety to the game. If you take heals away from hybrids, how to you make them viable and different from the existing pures?

And the ability for dps healing hybrids to heal others is hardly the most broken thing in pvp right now. Right now the main problems are warrior burst, hunter (a pure!) burst, and mage (a pure!) control + burst.

I'm not saying they should just remove the spells hybrids have and not compensate them. That would be retarded. The issue of Hybrid vs Pure has been going on for years, and I think it would make more sense to make hybrid dps specs into pure specs. If you want to heal you can always play a healer, but it seems like healing on a DPS class is complicating things.
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76 Dwarf Warrior
Hybrids have had healing for 8 years. It is an important component to how playing one "feels" and not a simple matter to just be rid of it. It would leave a lot of players unable to identify with their characters.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
lol people are making it seem like hybrids are outdpsing and outhealing everybody at the same time. This is not the case, not how they are designed, and if that ever were to happen, there would be a nerf so fast that 3.0 ret would seem like it took forever.
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90 Orc Warrior
From RaidBots 10N data for dps:

DK: 6.55%
Druid: 8.24%
Hunter: 13.03%
Mage: 14.46%
Monk: 3.12%
Paladin: 5.08%
Priest: 11.62%
Rogue: 8.99%
Shaman: 9.15%
Warlock: 12.58%
Warrior: 7.19%

Look at those pures having their spots taken! It's not like the top 3 represented classes are pures and the other pure is basically tied for 5th.

I can cite numbers just as meaning less for a PVP thread too!
Let's look at the world first heroic shek'zeer kill:
Death Knight : 1
Druid : 4
Hunter : 1
Mage : 3
Monk : 2
Paladin : 4
Priest : 3
Shaman : 4
Warlock : 2
Warrior : 1

All 4 of their druids were dps.
1 Monk was healer and 1 monk was DPS.
1 Paladin was Holy, 1 was Prot, and 2 were Ret
2 Priests were Disc, 1 was Shadow.
3 Shamans were ele, 1 was resto.

This makes ELEVEN of their dps hybrids.

Compare to:
1 Arms warrior
2 Warlocks
3 Mages
1 Hunter

11 Hybrid dps to 7 Non-hybrid dps. Warriors are hybrid-tank, not hybrid-healer, so I'm going to consider it a pure.

Hybrid tax certainly wouldn't make compelling gameplay, but doing good dps and having decent off-heals is just as bad.

There are more hybrid classes than there are pure classes. It would make sense that they are represented more. Anyway, we're talking about a world first kill, big f'ing deal. Some aspects of a fight fit certain classes better.

On world first Spine there were something like 7 Mages and 5 Rogues, and no Warriors. I didn't have a problem with that. It's just that Mages and Rogues had REALLY good on demand burst DPS.
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90 Orc Warrior
So, your claim is that locks provide nothing to help the raid aside from damage? And all hybrids have something powerful enough to overcome low dps?

Funnily enough, despite your claims pures still have way more representation than any hybrid except shadow.

LOL yeah. Health Stones are an amazing raid utility. They were a bit crappy before, but they are awesome now. They also have a battle rez.
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90 Troll Shaman
Pretty much what Nagomalda said pvp power is the cause for the huge unbalance in pvp at them moment. I can see what blizz was aiming for when they introduce pvp power but, the sad fact is PvP Power is just armor penetration on crack. All i see is people stacking that stat and not their main stats.
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85 Undead Rogue
I don't mind hybrids but their DPS needs to be cut down in an equal amount to the healing they can do...that is quite fair
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90 Troll Druid
Idk why you're complaining about hybrid healing for pallies. Ret Pally heals are horrendous, and for the matter so are the heals of the other melee hybrid specs, Enhancement Shammies and Feral Druids.

As for Shadow Priests and Moonkin Druids, the only ones worth complaining about, they already are planning to make PVP power no longer effect their healing in 5.1. That should reduce their healing significantly. Unfortunately, that will probably neuter the melee hybrid healing as well, and it's already lackluster at best.
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90 Draenei Shaman
Classes are the way they are. If you think an ability another class has is good and feel you could utilize it well, play that class.

People that only play one class are very annoying, because they feel that class should have everything the rest of the classes do. When they dont they should be buffed in some way to compensate.

Be good an be able to see how the game as is and make the most of it in its current state. Or be bad and always whine for the game to be changed, so you can keep doing what your doing and be the best.

Who would hire a football coach who is constantly complaining about the rules needing to be changed so they can compete? I am not saying there is no place for Mages, Warlocks, Hunters or Rogues. I am saying if thats the way that someone feels, they should adapt to the game instead of expecting the game to adapt to them.
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90 Night Elf Druid
Lol, feral heals ftw!!! Rogues and mage tears? yum...
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100 Pandaren Monk
Why di hybrids have healing at all? Because one of their specs can heal. So some spells are ledt in their spellbook. Their self heals are omg op. Healers crit for 200% non healers 150%. They dont get healing modifiers and of they try to heal, they will oom. Now you crying aboug this is like me saying why does a dk and lock get a brez now that was only for druids. Why do mages get spell power buff that was for ele shaman and demo locks. Why do mages and hunters get lust thats a shaman spell..... See where im getting at? Wow changes get used to it and stop with pointless posts like this.... The whole hybrid dps thing is over and no doesnt mean pure dps classes are not played anymore. In the end its the players choice what toon they play. And worlds first kills dont matter because those are unbalanced class stacking.
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95 Pandaren Shaman
broken design that they are already looking to fix.... they were warned in beta it was going to be OP but they said it was fine, sure did not last long.
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100 Human Warlock
11 Hybrid dps to 7 Non-hybrid dps. Warriors are hybrid-tank, not hybrid-healer, so I'm going to consider it a pure.

Hybrid tax certainly wouldn't make compelling gameplay, but doing good dps and having decent off-heals is just as bad.

This argument is pretty stupid, since the reason there were that many Hybrid DPS probably had very little to do with offheals, or the ability to switch to healing specs for previous fights (since guilds like this are willing to just switch characters to stack the raid). It had something to do with class specific mechanics. Citing that as evidence for the weakness of Pures is as valid as citing the first Heroic Spine kills as the death of Hybrids, or any non Rogue or Mage DPS.
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90 Human Paladin
The same reason that warriors have tanky abilities in a DPS spec. It's part of the class flavor and wouldn't make sense to remove at this point. Even if it was the absolute best way to balance hybrid classes against pure damage classes, there would still be pause to do that because you'd be changing the way several classes play so much. It would likely upset quite a few players for something that is arguably able to be balanced sufficiently without major overhauls to the classes.

If right now it was changed so that no one except healing specs could offer any healing, I think that would bring up more balance issues than trying to balance what we currently have. Jumping from the frying pan in to the fire, so to speak. Something to visit in the next expansion? Maybe.
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100 Goblin Mage
I just don't think Blizzard has a clue how to deal with all these classes and abilities. There is too much crap. The druid is so messed up they had to make a 4th spec on it.
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90 Orc Shaman
Personally, I think I would much rather have strong self healing than have potential group healing as an Enhance shaman. I mean I never have a practical use for spells like Healing Rain or Chain Heal considering how little they heal for and how much they cost.
Something like Second Wind would be much more suitable than targeted healing specifically for melee hybrids like Enhance, Ret, or Feral imo.
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100 Night Elf Druid
If you're talking about raid PvE, what does it matter whether a DPS Druid/Shaman/Priest/Monk can heal or not? If we toss an off-heal here or there, it's to take pressure off the dedicated healers or maybe even prevent a wipe. I don't see why anyone in his right mind would complain about that. We're using our kit to help the group succeed.

If you're talking about PvP, then the answer is that pure DPS classes generally have better utility and CC. As a Moonkin, my CC options and self-peel options pale in comparison with what a Mage or a Rogue have. I need healing to stay alive when that Warrior or DK is giving me the beat-down, because I don't have the myriad of ways to open a gap against him that pure classes do.
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100 Undead Warlock

EDIT- And who in the hell said this was a PVP thread? This is a DAMAGE DEALING thread in the DAMAGE DEALING FORUMS.

How about you read the thread topic and see if you can figure that one out on your own?
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