Let’s Talk About Brawler’s Guild

You only get from the game what you put in. Gold doesn't fall into anyone's lap. You quest for it. You work your professions wisely for it. You put up with !@#$%^-s in Trade channel for it.

In the end, gold is available for everyone. You just need to actually earn it.

EDIT: Forgive the swear. I forget myself sometimes.
Edited by Fixitt on 11/8/2012 1:24 PM PST
90 Night Elf Druid
13785
You said yourself that gold is easier to make once you have more gold. This makes it more available to people that have gold. What about the guy who just started playing wow in mop? He shouldnt have as much right to see the content the first day as anyone else?


He does have as much right to do it, and as a new player will likely level more slowly through all the content and take his time as he learns how to negotiate the world AND make money. There's a good chance at max level he will be barely aware of the Brawler's Guild and will be more focused on doing dungeons, grinding dailies, building reputations, etc.

Just leveling grants you a chunk of gold to start out with and if he's super serious about building more gold, he'll find ways to do that. If not... he'll wait to do things with NO POWER BENEFIT until they are at a price he can enjoy... after most of the rich folks have done it and moved on... just like with dailies... and raids... and BG/Arena rating... and so on.
100 Orc Hunter
14580

I think it's also worth mentioning that the feedback we're receiving on this isn't being ignored, and that we're still considering alternate methods of distributing the invitations.


As far as the invitations goes, I'd suggest NPC's from the guild sending invitations to those who have sought out the tougher badasses in the world and taken them down. Not necessarily raid bosses, but rather those tougher-than-usual named rares that some of us have made it a point to take down. One of the "must-haves", for example, would be the Glorious! achievement for killing all of the Pandaria rares.

At least then some form of skill--and not just the contents of your bank account, which is completely counter to the Fight Club rules that this Brawler's Guild apes--would be a prerequisite.
Edited by Benggaul on 11/8/2012 1:27 PM PST
Community Manager
Daxxari,

I hardly ever post, and never about topics like this, but this one has really annoyed me. I've been playing, quietly and loyally, since launch, and have maintained acceptance and a positive attitude throughout that time. In this case, though, Blizzard is, in my opinion, making a huge mistake that is upsetting many, many players. The isolation of solo content, even for a short time, to only the super-rich, feels like an insult (even if it's not intended as such).

This goes beyond buying vanity items and single-tier upgrades at the BMAH, or buying giant yak or rocket mounts. This isn't limited-interest content, like a new raid or battleground. Everybody loves the concept, everyone wants to participate, and 99.9% of us are being told that we can't because we're simply not wealthy enough.

You want to gate the content, that's clear. But my question is, why? If you want the small-club feel, why not delay the feature until you have the tech to enable multiple instances that small numbers of people can be permanently assigned to? If you want to only have one instance, then why not equalize the passes by giving most of them out randomly, or making it an inexpensive, single-purchase-only raffle (with maybe only one or two passes per server also available on BMAH)?

You may not have intended this to be something big, but it's obviously extremely popular and anticipated content, and your unwillingness to budge from your wealth-centered content delivery mechanism is both disappointing and wholly unfair to the vast majority of your paying customers.


Thanks for expressing your thoughts clearly and constructively, Nessaja. Just to reiterate: we're still considering the possibility of using alternate methods of distributing invitations.
11/08/2012 01:20 PMPosted by Rollingbones


Except it is equally available to everyone.

You said yourself that gold is easier to make once you have more gold. This makes it more available to people that have gold. What about the guy who just started playing wow in mop? He shouldnt have as much right to see the content the first day as anyone else?


If that new player put the effort into getting the gold for it, he could see it day 1. But really, it's an exclusive, optional (quite literally, unlike dailies being "optional"), activity for people that don't have anything else to do. If you just started in MoP, there is plenty of things you've still got to do.
90 Undead Monk
11210
Sorry guys, but this account is a month old. I currently have 15k as i recently finished maxing up enchanting and blacksmith.

And now i ask you. Why shouldn't i have the same chance of getting a ticket with a person that is playing the game for much more time and has tons of gold?

Implementing a method through the existing system is the way to go for me at least. Why award more people that either farm ah, sell boosts / achieves etc, than the questers being out there every day, and helping the well being of the wpvp of their servers.

As i said before, make the tickets cost lesser charms (silver coins from quests). Then all players will have the same opportunity and you will promote / stimulate some activity / interaction in the realms.


You sir, prove my point entirely. You absolutely should have as much right to see the content the first day as anyone who has been playing the game since launch.
90 Human Death Knight
13075
the "must-haves", for example, would be the Glorious! achievement for killing all of the Pandaria rares.

Low drop rate from one of these rares would result in them being killed all the time, I think.
90 Human Rogue
11305
Cue people selling Brawler's Guild invites on Trade Chat in 5...4...3...2..
90 Pandaren Priest
12355
Having invitations drop from the level 90 rares would be really cool to see and fitting with the RP behind the feature IMO. Not guaranteed, of course, but a 10% or 5% drop would be cool to see.
90 Goblin Shaman
9495
I don't think anybody reasonable is going to suggest that the Brawler's Guild shouldn't be an "underground, exclusive" sort of thing. I'm happy for it to be exclusive, and I'm sure most people are, too.

The thing is, there are better ways to get the invites out there than the BMAH, ways that give all players a more fair chance of getting an invite, some that give an advantage to players who can commit more time to WoW. Drops from mobs that spawn randomly around Azeroth, or limited-stock sales from vendors, or even simply requiring a player to locate and speak to a particular NPC, and be the first to do it. All of these options could be tuned to reset and offer other players a chance at whatever interval the devs choose.

Putting the invites on the BMAH may create an air of exclusivity, sure. But, there are other methods that can and have been used to get extremely rare, exclusive items out there. As it is, this just smacks of a desperate attempt to prop up a failed feature, the BMAH, and to try to ensure it doesn't become MoP's "voice chat" - a feature notorious for its poor implementation and disuse.

Please reconsider the BMAH distribution method, or at least implement an alternate route for players to get their invites. I don't say this as a player who even expects to snare an invite early on through one of my suggested methods, either. I say it as someone who thinks that good players should get the chance to experience new content, regardless of their arbitrary ability to outbid someone else on the BMAH.
90 Draenei Hunter
0
You only get from the game what you put in. Gold doesn't fall into anyone's lap. You quest for it. You work your professions wisely for it. You put up with !@#$%^-s in Trade channel for it.

In the end, gold is available for everyone. You just need to actually earn it.

EDIT: Forgive the swear. I forget myself sometimes.


Tell that to the people who buy it...
100 Goblin Rogue
10970
I am someone who loves soloing old content. Not even for the rewards; just to see if I can. One of my favourite things to do in Pandaria is scouring the continent looking for rares to kill (only ten more to go!).

With that in mind I am extremely excited about everything about Brawlers Guild except for its implementation.

1) I love the idea of fighting harder and harder creatures, having to push my skills to their limits. It will provide a valuable "next step" from proving grounds which I understand to be more about learning one's class than pushing it to its extremes.

2) I do not love having to queue for solo content. Or, if I have to queue, I do not love having to queue from inside the area. It means I cannot explore and quest as I can with other queues, it means I cannot go hunt pets as I can in other queues, it means I cannot go hunt my rares for the day, it means I can't do my dailies; it means I cannot actually play the rest of the game. You are in effect asking me to choose between what you admit is intended as a smaller piece of content and, essentially, the rest of the content.

As an additional thought that occurred to me - it also goes against the design intent of Pandaria to "get people back into the world". It puts people back, sitting in cities, waiting for queues to pop. I'm on a PVE server so that wasn't really aimed at us; but even then it means the time that I spend in Brawler's Guild is time I'm not engaging in the other social aspect of 5.1 - Dominance Offensive. Which is actually a cooperative enterprise so enticing socialisation seems vital.

Given that I'm typically a "play for an hour or so per day" sort of person, and given that people on the PTR have been reporting 20+ minute queues, I will be lucky to get in two attempts per day. Worse yet I will spend more time in queues than actually doing the content I am queueing for.

3) I do not love the idea of being able to buff/debuff other players. Why? Because there is quite literally no chance I will ever buff someone. Why? Because the sooner they die the sooner I get my turn. The nature of the queue incentivises people to be as harsh as possible. The person in the ring is visibly standing between you and what you're here to do.

I've seen this behaviour when fighting world bosses with people tagging and despawning the boss; I've seen this behaviour when fighting rares with groups of people waiting for the same spawn and then kiting additional mobs to the person who manages to tag the rare; I've seen this behaviour when people are fighting a mob next a mining node and someone else swoops in to take it. Same basic premise.

I'm not criticising my compatriots, just stating that this is how people behave, and design should take place from that starting point and with those behaviours in mind.

4) Spectator mode seems uncompelling. As someone mentioned on another forum I frequent: there already exists an avenue where you can watch people solo crazy stuff, it's called YouTube, and you can even buff/debuff the player by voting their content up or down. Not only that but I can get tips and tricks, pause it, rewind it, get UI recommendations, discover new music, etc. And, again, in combination with the queue system there is a distinct possibility I am going to be alt-tabbed looking at YouTube videos of the fights rather than the fights themselves for the reasons outlined above (if I'm not throwing debuffs at people).

Some final thoughts for the time being: you mentioned that one of the intentions of the Brawler's Guild was to provide PVE bragging rights. Challenge Modes have a fantastic system for doing this, and I think that Brawler's Guild could learn a lot from them. Offer a title, offer a highly visible vanity transmog item, offer a mount, or a pet; things like that have been shown to be fantastic rewards as kudos, and are far more visible than anything the Brawler's Guild currently offers.
1 Pandaren Rogue
0
Daxxari,

I hardly ever post, and never about topics like this, but this one has really annoyed me. I've been playing, quietly and loyally, since launch, and have maintained acceptance and a positive attitude throughout that time. In this case, though, Blizzard is, in my opinion, making a huge mistake that is upsetting many, many players. The isolation of solo content, even for a short time, to only the super-rich, feels like an insult (even if it's not intended as such).

This goes beyond buying vanity items and single-tier upgrades at the BMAH, or buying giant yak or rocket mounts. This isn't limited-interest content, like a new raid or battleground. Everybody loves the concept, everyone wants to participate, and 99.9% of us are being told that we can't because we're simply not wealthy enough.

You want to gate the content, that's clear. But my question is, why? If you want the small-club feel, why not delay the feature until you have the tech to enable multiple instances that small numbers of people can be permanently assigned to? If you want to only have one instance, then why not equalize the passes by giving most of them out randomly, or making it an inexpensive, single-purchase-only raffle (with maybe only one or two passes per server also available on BMAH)?

You may not have intended this to be something big, but it's obviously extremely popular and anticipated content, and your unwillingness to budge from your wealth-centered content delivery mechanism is both disappointing and wholly unfair to the vast majority of your paying customers.


Thanks for expressing your thoughts clearly and constructively, Nessaja. Just to reiterate: we're still considering the possibility of using alternate methods of distributing invitations.


How a long, epic questline where you have to prove yourself to the head of the Brawler's Guild by going to various smaller brawl sites scattered around Pandaria (or Azeroth) and dueling NPCs, etc. there? That'd be fun. :3
Edited by Seraphimilim on 11/8/2012 1:32 PM PST
90 Undead Monk
11210

You said yourself that gold is easier to make once you have more gold. This makes it more available to people that have gold. What about the guy who just started playing wow in mop? He shouldnt have as much right to see the content the first day as anyone else?


If that new player put the effort into getting the gold for it, he could see it day 1. But really, it's an exclusive, optional (quite literally, unlike dailies being "optional"), activity for people that don't have anything else to do. If you just started in MoP, there is plenty of things you've still got to do.


I'm sorry you think this, but the content is for everyone who plays/pays for the game. Not just for those that are bored.
100 Orc Hunter
14580
11/08/2012 01:27 PMPosted by Babelon
the "must-haves", for example, would be the Glorious! achievement for killing all of the Pandaria rares.

Low drop rate from one of these rares would result in them being killed all the time, I think.


I did not say that the invites should drop from the rares. Please pay more attention if you're going to provide criticism.
100 Orc Death Knight
8695
Well when i heard about this i thought it would be fun..... too bad i will never get to see any of it..... thanks blizz. failed again
90 Worgen Mage
10895
It looks like players who are invited into the Brawler's guild by another player can only earn the right to invite ONE other player.

Will the players who bought invites directly from the BMAH also be limited to inviting just ONE other player into the guild? or can they invite as many players as they wish?
90 Worgen Warrior
8745
Are the invites per character or per account... Im guessing per character, but ifs that's the case, why wouldnt people buy an invite and give all future invites they earn to their alts?
Sorry guys, but this account is a month old. I currently have 15k as i recently finished maxing up enchanting and blacksmith.

And now i ask you. Why shouldn't i have the same chance of getting a ticket with a person that is playing the game for much more time and has tons of gold?

Implementing a method through the existing system is the way to go for me at least. Why award more people that either farm ah, sell boosts / achieves etc, than the questers being out there every day, and helping the well being of the wpvp of their servers.

As i said before, make the tickets cost lesser charms (silver coins from quests). Then all players will have the same opportunity and you will promote / stimulate some activity / interaction in the realms.


Your account is 1 month old and you have 15k gold. Yes, clearly gold is very difficult to acquire.
90 Worgen Warrior
11060
11/08/2012 10:48 AMPosted by Daxxarri
A venue for a realm’s community to come together


Have you seen you realm's trade chat? Probably little trading going on, a lot of trolling and argueing going on in there. Focus on guild activities imo. That is where our community majority is. Yes we have friends outsides our guilds, but I bet a lot of players are pretty comfortable and feel like a community with their guild.

11/08/2012 10:48 AMPosted by Daxxarri
since a big part of the Brawler’s Guild is watching other players fight their own battles, right now instancing arenas or using phasing isn’t an attractive option.


Make a guild hall, that is tied to your guild tag and nothing else. So you can have your brawler's guild in the basement of that. This will allow your guild to watch you and you only have to compete with your guildies for q times not your realm.

Also it would add a guild hall to the game which i know we have been asking for, for years!
2 birds and 1 awesome stone

PS Nix the BMAH idea
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