Let’s Talk About Brawler’s Guild

90 Orc Hunter
8475


We know you’ve got questions, so ask away, and we’ll try to clarify where things are hazy.


Not a question, just wanted to state my disappointment about the invites. I know it's my own fault for imagining what BG would be, but in my mind it sounded like a great solo challenge. Something a player could do on their own (ie not need a guild and a raid schedule to enjoy) via doing instanced solo challenges. Instead there is going to be a long period when only the folks with money to access the BMAH can get invites, and then will be sending them to their guildmates and friends. As someone who doesn't have that kind of gold, and isn't part of a big/progression guild I can currently see no path to get myself into the Brawler's Guild based on the description you've supplied.

What sounded like an opportunity for solo players to enjoy a challenge instead is going to be locked to them for flavor reasons.

As for the "one at a time" thing, I'm not sure how being able to watch the fights provides more of a reward than having them be instances so you don't have to wait in line.

I dunno. I just feel deflated by the implementation of what sounded like a fun new feature someone like me could have access to.
11 Dwarf Shaman
50
11/08/2012 11:17 AMPosted by Daxxarri
While that's something we're going to be keeping an eye on, it will be quite difficult to monopolize the invitations. The current plan is to furnish 10 new Bind on Pickup invites on the Black Market Auction House each day, so anyone trying to control all the invitations on a realm would have to have quite a fortune, and be willing to spend it all on nothing more than simply delaying, not stopping, other players from joining the Guild. Also, after players earn an invitation of their own to give out (these earned invites aren't bound, they're consumables that can be freely handed out, sold on the Auction House, etc.), they can do with that earned invite as they please.


What about randomly mailing BoP invites to 10 people each day? I'm sure there are ways to see if a character is actively playing the game and is at the appropriate level, so the invites don't go to low-level bank alts or expired/abandoned accounts.

Even if an invite went to a character that never used it, eh so what? Tomorrow there'll be 10 more going out.

Seems like a more equitable way of doing it and achieving the same goals - except for the gold sink aspect (which I'm sure is a big reason for handling it this way).
Edited by Keggerator on 11/8/2012 11:28 AM PST
100 Human Priest
13595
11/08/2012 11:21 AMPosted by Rangikuu
The current plan is to furnish 10 new Bind on Pickup invites on the Black Market Auction House each day, so anyone trying to control all the invitations on a realm would have to have quite a fortune, and be willing to spend it all on nothing more than simply delaying, not stopping, other players from joining the Guild.


I know several who have the means and the ilk to do just that...
They may have the means to do it, but it won't make them profit, so why would they?
100 Human Death Knight
22870
As an avid soloer and huge fan of the soloing niche that's been developed over time in WoW, I am disappointed with the way you're handling this.

Tying entry into the Brawler's Guild to player economy is an extremely unappealing and frankly unfair form of progression.
I can respect the need or desire to gate progression in this venture, but surely there are ways of doing so that actually challenge a player, rather than pressure them to spend large amounts of gold and rely on chance?

The Realm First achievement was not a bad idea in and of itself, in my opinion: It's just that removing it became mandatory once you went through with this BMAH idea.

Finally, I'd appreciate if you expanded on what you mean by this, when you say that the Brawler's Guild: "A means of solo progression", yet simultaneously also say that it is: "A unique way to earn some solo PvE bragging rights"?
Isn't there a bit of a contradiction here?
Community Manager
11/08/2012 11:18 AMPosted by Stardaze
That's an outright lie, and you know it.


A lie? No. In fact, if you'd read past that first sentence, I provided the rationale regarding why I believe this to be the case. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong - we'll see.

Regardless, I understand that this subject has raised some strong feelings. Nonetheless, I encourage everyone to discuss the issue in a fashion that is tactful and in accordance with the posting guidelines and code of conduct.
95 Draenei Hunter
11610
75% of all statistics are made up on the spot, but It is the sad truth that in my experience you will often find 3 dbags before finding one nice person.
100 Goblin Warrior
6645
Wait. It's called a Brawler's Guild and it's PVE?
Lame.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13080
11/08/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Keggerator
What about randomly mailing BoP invites to 10 people each day?


This sounds like a reasonable, good idea.
82 Human Warrior
0
Strawman arguments aside, you're talking 10k gold a day, 70k gold a week, 300k gold a month.
95 Draenei Hunter
11610
11/08/2012 11:23 AMPosted by Lasagna


I know several who have the means and the ilk to do just that...
They may have the means to do it, but it won't make them profit, so why would they?


Why does that one guy on your server pay 15$ a month to constantly troll people...

Because

He

Can

Too many people do things for that reason and that reason alone.
90 Pandaren Mage
12330
11/08/2012 11:25 AMPosted by Daxxarri
That's an outright lie, and you know it.


A lie? No. In fact, if you'd read past that first sentence, I provided the rationale regarding why I believe this to be the case. Perhaps I'll be proven wrong - we'll see.

Regardless, I understand that this subject has raised some strong feelings. Nonetheless, I encourage everyone to discuss the issue in a fashion that is tactful and in accordance with the posting guidelines and code of conduct.


Lie was too strong of a word and I apologize. I should have said misconception. This might not be the case later down the road, but during the first month or two I could see monopolization going on. I've noticed since the xpac release that things don't always go as they should go from the developer's table.
95 Draenei Hunter
11610
11/08/2012 11:27 AMPosted by Amorisse
What about randomly mailing BoP invites to 10 people each day?


This sounds like a reasonable, good idea.


This! ^

It would be more exciting, non campable, and SO much better. You get a letter from an NPC who saw you do X something like kill DW or something in your acheiv list Making it more personal. And he thought it would be great to see what else you could do.

THIS! ^ Way better idea
90 Human Monk
17840
11/08/2012 10:48 AMPosted by Daxxarri
A venue for a realm’s community to come together

Like Isle of Quel'danas or Galleon, where you throw a hundred people together after the same objectives and hoping they'll "bond" and compete at the same time?
Edited by Litchi on 11/8/2012 11:31 AM PST
There are only two possible ways things can go with the current design. They're not mutually exclusive, and one will likely give way to the other over time.

The first is that this becomes absurdly exclusive content that only a tiny fraction of players will see.

The other is that Blizzard's attempts at gating will fail, and the place will become so crowded that queues will stretch to absurd lengths and it will become borderline unplayable.

The only way this is going to work is if the Guild is instanced. I respect the social angle they're going for, and I think each instance should have a relatively high player limit (~40 people?), but putting the invites in the hands of the players is one of the most utterly bad ideas I've ever seen (Seriously, do you have any idea what this community is like?), and letting everyone in without instancing will break the system.

Too bad. I love solo challenges, but I have decided I no longer have any patience for struggling to get into exclusive content. Trying to raid pre-LFR was bad enough; I'm not going back to those dark ages. Clearly, the Guild is not for me.

Also, does anyone else find it ironic that the people Brawler's Guild is most likely to attract -- soloists -- are the least likely to have the social connections necessary to experience it?

And shouldn't it be Brawlers' Guild, not Brawler's Guild? /grammar police
Edited by Maigraith on 11/8/2012 11:35 AM PST
90 Pandaren Mage
12330
11/08/2012 11:30 AMPosted by Rangikuu


This sounds like a reasonable, good idea.


This! ^

It would be more exciting, non campable, and SO much better. You get a letter from an NPC who saw you do X something like kill DW or something in your acheiv list Making it more personal. And he thought it would be great to see what else you could do.

THIS! ^ Way better idea


This.
93 Undead Warlock
4170
Remember CRZ? That was a new feature, a long time ago, to control the population in a zone.

Why don't you use this tech for the Brawler's Guild? Limit the zone to 30 to 60 players, and give everyone free access...
Community Manager
Finally, I'd appreciate if you expanded on what you mean by this, when you say that the Brawler's Guild: "A means of solo progression", yet simultaneously also say that it is: "A unique way to earn some solo PvE bragging rights"?
Isn't there a bit of a contradiction here?


Sure!

When we talk about progression, we're usually talking about increasing levels of player power. If you spend a decent amount of time raiding, doing organized PvP, etc. then you'll likely either earn items or some means of purchasing items that increase your character's ability to face tougher challenges over time.

Bragging rights are just that. While they can be very satisfying, they don't increase your character's effectiveness. So, the Brawler's Guild isn't a means of progression in the same way that dungeons, Raids, battlegrounds, arenas, scenarios etc., are.
100 Night Elf Druid
16935
They may have the means to do it, but it won't make them profit, so why would they?


Why does that one guy on your server pay 15$ a month to constantly troll people...

Because

He

Can

Too many people do things for that reason and that reason alone.


Here's some great news for you, then!
For the low, low cost of delaying general access to the Brawlers' Guild for a few days, your server will suck all the money out of these trolls, rendering them powerless.

Seriously, though, no one is going to waste vast sums of gold (it would take multiple gold caps) just to delay access to other people for a few days. There is going to be so much else going on when patch 5.1 launches that people will just shrug it off and try again in a week. No meaningful trolling would even be accomplished.
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