Let’s Talk About Brawler’s Guild

90 Human Warlock
14245
I think this is a better approach to issue of Brawlers Guild invites, though as an alternate suggestion, why not occasionally drop from some of the tougher elite rare spawns as well?

I can understand why Blizzard are doing it this way, from what I see on the preview vids it looks like the fighting pit can only be occupied by one player at a time. So for every level 90 and his dog to rush into Brawlers Guild would lead to very, very long Q times and people would then get upset by this and vent their respective spleens in the forums and fansites etc. So a invite system is the lesser of the many evils. Just don't make the mistake of making it sound like "Here is something you been requesting for ages, scroungers and riff-raff need not apply"

Of all the things coming up in the patch, Brawlers Guild is the thing I am excited about the most.


There's going to be long queue times very quickly anyway.

Think about it. If every fight takes 5mins on average, and the invites are split 50/50 faction wise, then you're looking at a 20min+ queue time on the first day, moving to a 50min+ queue time on the second day.

I was looking forward to the Brawler's Guild, but I don't have the spare time available right now to sit around in the Deep Run Tram area for over an hour waiting for a turn to fight. So tihs will be something I look at later in the expac, if I get more spare time.
50 Gnome Warlock
765
Fantastic update. Glad to see that our concerns were addressed (one of the big ones anyway).
Edited by Bomdanil on 11/14/2012 5:56 PM PST
90 Human Paladin
13300
Update!

  • Entry into the brawler’s guild is by invitation only. Invitations can be found on the black market auction house, by invitation from somebody within the guild, and occasionally as drops from certain Horde and Alliance NPCs.

With it's current implementation of high cost and limited engagement, I don't care to engage in the Brawlers Guild & solo PvE. Besides, the #1 solo PvE'er will be hunters, hands down.

I do love this change, as it did with mounts available via faction leader kills, this will probably do the same. I bet there will be some nice 40 man raids created & completely wtf-pwning major cities. While only certain NPC's may carry it, I'm sure others will be annihilated in their wake.

I'm not much of a PvP person, but I look forward to raiding cities. Hopefully this is how it will play out.
90 Night Elf Death Knight
13730
Much better. I'm ok with large scale massacres of living things if it accomplishes my goals.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10165
Next concern, of course, is that now the daily areas will be overrun with people just rounding up and AOEing mobs for invitations (or camping unique NPCs at their spawn points).

You know it'll happen. Gamers can suck the fun out of anything.
90 Draenei Hunter
8755
I guess if Brawlers Guild had some kind of incentive, like mounts, pets and Transmog gear, that would lead to serious Q times and punch ups in the waiting lines. This is not to say that it will be this way forever and ever amen. Nothing stopping Blizzard putting in valuable stuff further down the line.

Problem with that is, what is an appropriate mount for the Brawlers Guild grand champion? You get to Grand Champion by being mean and tough and you want a mount that will make you look harder than Chinese algebra.

A scorpion mount? Been done.
A bear mount? Been done to death.
A mechanical mount of some kind perhaps? A shredder for example?
90 Gnome Warrior
13000
I guess if Brawlers Guild had some kind of incentive, like mounts, pets and Transmog gear, that would lead to serious Q times and punch ups in the waiting lines. This is not to say that it will be this way forever and ever amen. Nothing stopping Blizzard putting in valuable stuff further down the line.

Problem with that is, what is an appropriate mount for the Brawlers Guild grand champion? You get to Grand Champion by being mean and tough and you want a mount that will make you look harder than Chinese algebra.

A scorpion mount? Been done.
A bear mount? Been done to death.
A mechanical mount of some kind perhaps? A shredder for example?


nope. A freakin' SIEGE engine. Complete with toolbar and abilities >:) (and juicebox vendors!)
90 Human Mage
19115
This is going to be a disaster.
90 Draenei Hunter
8755
nope. A freakin' SIEGE engine. Complete with toolbar and abilities >:) (and juicebox vendors!)


Give me steam tanks or give me death! And Demolishers for Horde players.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10165
I guess if Brawlers Guild had some kind of incentive, like mounts, pets and Transmog gear, that would lead to serious Q times and punch ups in the waiting lines. This is not to say that it will be this way forever and ever amen. Nothing stopping Blizzard putting in valuable stuff further down the line.

Problem with that is, what is an appropriate mount for the Brawlers Guild grand champion? You get to Grand Champion by being mean and tough and you want a mount that will make you look harder than Chinese algebra.

A scorpion mount? Been done.
A bear mount? Been done to death.
A mechanical mount of some kind perhaps? A shredder for example?


A gnome.
90 Draenei Hunter
8755
11/14/2012 06:36 PMPosted by Seiva
A gnome.


Yeah, even if its like a large Jeeves, rockets in the feet allowing it to fly Iron Man style. Operator sits inside its head. Woot!
90 Blood Elf Priest
5050
I've read through most of this thread and the preceding two "well this killed my hype..." threads while making a few posts. I have come to the conclusion, from dictation instead of genuine response from the blue side that they are doing this to test the viability of the black market auction house and to gauge the potential of a Diablo III real-market ah system in WoW. How much real money could they make from a small take on the brawler's invites game-wide? Should they look at reaping rewards from non-progression(game impacting), yet highly desired content? They did lose a significant amount of subscriptions through the life of Cataclysm. Their pet and mount campaigns in the blizzard store have been phenomenal successes. I know pets and mounts aren't content, but content is the next tier of real money transaction to at least test.

They obviously will never validate this publicly, but I'll keep my transparent aluminum hat on. Let me know what you think.

*edit* blue post about npc drops came while i was writing :/


Meh. It's also possible they want to create a feeling of exclusive content for some of their most-dedicated customers, but were afraid it'd actually be too exclusive.
90 Human Paladin
7305
There isn't really anything in WOW that isn't related to the word exclusive, even if only temporary. I consider this a welcome change consider there was a time it was exclusive and that exclusivity was not temporary.

Practically there shouldn't be that many more extra invites, unless the rate is higher than expected, which would defeat the entire purpose of the gate. It'll probably be like those lotus shards or 5man heroic epics, things people talk about but most never ever see.
Edited by Hatsune on 11/14/2012 9:11 PM PST
90 Undead Mage
8655
11/08/2012 11:00 AMPosted by Faera
So... how is this different than AFKing in Org then?


Spectacle
90 Human Paladin
7305
Oh..." *smirk* "Have fun, IKEA boy."


What's an IKEA boy?

If I'm meant to be in it I'll get my invite the way a Space Monkey gets into Fight Club. They earn it through patience, perseverance, and they fought for it.


I'd say the AH veteran earned it through patience, perseverance and multiple victories over his peers in AH warfare.
90 Tauren Monk
18385
Stat scaling isn't currently planned for the Guild, no. Skill will absolutely factor in, especially at high Ranks, but bragging rights in this context can certainly also include raw character power. The fights aren't tuned for stat scaling, and beyond that, gear is an important part of World of Warcraft. We don't want to go too crazy with eliminating its value by over-using stat scaling.

Naturally, and as with all things, we might revise that perspective in the future, but it's not on the table at the moment.


And this right here shredded the very last bit of interest I had in the Brawler's Guild.

You created a mini-game that is meant to be a time-sink that, somehow, bonds the community together without any tangible reward besides achievements and bragging rights. You then put arbitrary restrictions to enter the guild through means of very limited and expensive invitations. Then you force the few lucky (or rich) participants to wait in line to do a battle since there is no individual phasing or something similar to that - so essentially, people are going to want to get in there to get it over with before the invitation count begins to rise exponentially and queue times become intolerable for a minigame.

I'm going to also assume that the invitations are per-character and not per-account, putting it as yet another feature in this expansion that isn't the slightest bit friendly to people with alts.

And then, despite the fact that it has no tangible reward, you do not normalize the gear like you did for Challenge Modes? ...Why? Stat scaling does not need to exist everywhere, no, but you absolutely should not avoid putting it in places where it rightfully belongs because you don't want to "overuse it". Stat scaling has no place in end-game PvP, or raids, or LFR, or heroics, or anything like that. Those are where you get item upgrades, and those are where you put said upgrades to use.

Stat scaling for mini-games, especially ones that are not meant to be used for character progression, is a no-brainer. I'm glad that you stand by your word that skill is a factor - but in this case, it should be THE factor. Someone with better gear is obviously going to have the advantage. Unless this is a means of character progression, do not make character progression a factor in success.

While I am not trying to sound like an angry player, personally I think that this whole Brawler's Guild idea needs to go back to the drawing board. Every single announcement about it since the original has destroyed my opinion on it further and further. The sole reason I'll ever do this anymore is to knock out the achievements, and then never touch it again.

That's assuming I can ever justify spending 10k+ on an invitation for a feature that I no longer want anything to do with. I'd probably work on other achievements instead.

With it's current implementation of high cost and limited engagement, I don't care to engage in the Brawlers Guild & solo PvE. Besides, the #1 solo PvE'er will be hunters, hands down.

I do love this change, as it did with mounts available via faction leader kills, this will probably do the same. I bet there will be some nice 40 man raids created & completely wtf-pwning major cities. While only certain NPC's may carry it, I'm sure others will be annihilated in their wake.

I'm not much of a PvP person, but I look forward to raiding cities. Hopefully this is how it will play out.


I can guarantee you that they were referring to enemy faction NPCs in the new daily hub, not capital city raids.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
16845
11/14/2012 05:51 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Will gear levels be throttled for the fights so that progression raiders and/or PvPers have no preexisting advantage, and the bragging rights are solely based on player skill?


Stat scaling isn't currently planned for the Guild, no. Skill will absolutely factor in, especially at high Ranks, but bragging rights in this context can certainly also include raw character power. The fights aren't tuned for stat scaling, and beyond that, gear is an important part of World of Warcraft. We don't want to go too crazy with eliminating its value by over-using stat scaling.

Naturally, and as with all things, we might revise that perspective in the future, but it's not on the table at the moment.


No gear scaling makes the feature less significantly less appealing to me.

Challenge modes & raiding are good activities for demonstrating how good you are in a 5-person & 10/25 person environment. They either drop all the gear required, or don't need any.

There isn't anything for individual skill bragging rights.

Brawler's guild with gear scaling would have been a good individual demonstration of skill.

But instead, it'll be exceptionally heavily biased by who's got a character in a raid group that's gone the farthest. E.G. Don't even bother trying on your alts.

There are already group achievement based bragging rights - raid kills. No need for another bragging rights venue that's heavily based off group pve achievements.
Edited by Lakhesís on 11/15/2012 2:13 AM PST
90 Human Paladin
7305
Its not supposed to be really difficult or challenging though. And besides the fights will probably have mechanics that are hard to overpower like Ozruk from Stonecore.
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