Smart PoH

90 Pandaren Monk
12615
Any PoH glyph of that sort would have to include a severe nerf, Zam.
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Yeah, It would probably have to nerf the healing, add a cd, or both.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
14040
There's too many pros and cons to either to make the change.

if it's not party locked, you can't reliably roll POH aegis as disc.

if t's party locked, you can't effectively 'raid heal' when 1 guy from each party gets hit.

How about we call it even and make it a GLYPH?

Glyph of Prayer of Healing: your Prayer of Healing is now a raid-wide smart heal, targets 5 most injured people.

That way you can glyph if when you need it, or let it stay party-locked...fight and spec depending.


What you are asking for is Circle of Healing for Disc.

Why not just combine Circle of Healing and Prayer of Healing into one spell available to both specs then?

Either it be instant cast (with a cooldown) or be repeatably castable but have a cast time and have a glyph that switches between the two options.
Edited by Taheraliel on 11/16/2012 5:54 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
18420
I liked the Holy Nova suggestion, revamping that (and not making it a glyph) seems sensible.
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90 Human Priest
17065
There's too many pros and cons to either to make the change.

if it's not party locked, you can't reliably roll POH aegis as disc.

if t's party locked, you can't effectively 'raid heal' when 1 guy from each party gets hit.

How about we call it even and make it a GLYPH?

Glyph of Prayer of Healing: your Prayer of Healing is now a raid-wide smart heal, targets 5 most injured people.

That way you can glyph if when you need it, or let it stay party-locked...fight and spec depending.


What you are asking for is Circle of Healing for Disc.

Why not just combine Circle of Healing and Prayer of Healing into one spell available to both specs then?

Either it be instant cast (with a cooldown) or be repeatably castable but have a cast time and have a glyph that switches between the two options.


Because both party-locked is sort of important and has its uses.

A disc right now relies on a party-locked POH to reliably roll shields across the raid - as of now I cannot imagine a progression disc advocating for smart POH - we'd be shooting ourselves in the foot. I certainly don't want POH to be raidwide smart, but here you see people asking for it for 'that one fight'.

That's why I'm a suggesting a glyph that changes it instead so I get to keep my partylocked option.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
It's less "that one fight" and more "that one mechanic in every fight". Very few fights let you use the full 5 targets of PoH for all your raid healing needs, in fact I can't even think of ONE. Either there is some point in the fight where you are too spread out or stacked in semi-random groups, or else where only 1-2 people in each group are taking damage at a time (note: that's still 5-10 people taking damage which does call for raid healing rather than single-target). As much as I rely on preshielding myself, I still think a flat smart PoH would be a healing buff in probably every single fight, at least for 25man.

Of course, I'm not asking for a purely smart PoH. What I really want is a new spell to fill the gap. Barring that though I think the best answer is to solve the first of the two problems with PoH.

On the subject of new spells, I think a radically buffed Holy Nova would solve the second of those two issues. Have it heal only the 5 most damaged targets within range of you (and only you), and have it do so for a significant amount, close to if not the same HPS as PoH itself. It would probably need to have an actual cast time.
Edited by Sotanaht on 11/16/2012 8:50 PM PST
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90 Human Priest
17065
It's less "that one fight" and more "that one mechanic in every fight". Very few fights let you use the full 5 targets of PoH for all your raid healing needs, in fact I can't even think of ONE. Either there is some point in the fight where you are too spread out or stacked in semi-random groups, or else where only 1-2 people in each group are taking damage at a time (note: that's still 5-10 people taking damage which does call for raid healing rather than single-target). As much as I rely on preshielding myself, I still think a flat smart PoH would be a healing buff in probably every single fight, at least for 25man..


As a disc priest I can say if POH is made smart heal it will more or less be shooting us in the foot since that destroys rolling aegis/SS for absorbs for 'that one mechanic'. Unless the raidleads are just flat out going 'whatever' with group management and positioning and everyone is just running around with their heads cut off, POH should always hit the group it's targetted it (certain fights aside, obviously).

There will always be some point in a fight where everyone is spread out, healing is hard with POH, but that's no reason to neuter the spell and kill it off for the times where it's actually borderline OP useful. If it's not a new spell, I'm happy with a partylock POH instead of turning that into a smart heal. I can afford letting the OTHER healers play whackamole instead of losing of the strongest abilities a disc has during "that one mechanic every fight". Which I'll like to add that the 'one mechanic' is usually a big mechanic that can use every absorb it can get to avoid having someone hit the dirt.

That's why I'd rather it be a glyph so those who want it, can have it and leave those who would rather it be partylocked stay partylocked.
Edited by Zamboozle on 11/16/2012 10:12 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Priest
13930
Very few fights let you use the full 5 targets of PoH for all your raid healing needs, in fact I can't even think of ONE. Either there is some point in the fight where you are too spread out or stacked in semi-random groups, or else where only 1-2 people in each group are taking damage at a time (note: that's still 5-10 people taking damage which does call for raid healing rather than single-target).


Then your raid leader is terrible about placing people in groups appropriately. -shrug-
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90 Blood Elf Priest
20570
Prayer of healing is annoying to say the least. If you have some say in how the raid comp is set up and can arrange groups then you are looking at some insane healing that no other healer can come close to. On the other hand if your range just spread out all over the place on a fight then you are pretty much left healing the melee while you wait for a group up phase to heal the range.

It's not something i would change though. The amount of healing you can do if everything is set up correcttly is just insane. It's a good 20-40% lead on any other healer with you.

Holy Nova is not such a good idea since the issue is range being too far spread out to recieve PoH heals. If there are plenty of people around you for Holy Nova to be useful then i'm sure you can have groups fairly close for PoH. A PoH that works like chain heal is out of the picture as well. We would stop being proactive healers which is the core of being a Disc priest.

You need to stop being so harsh on Sotan Elethia=( It's a very common issue in 25man raids(which aftermath raids as) for groups to be spread out beyond PoH distance. There are just too many people for them to stay with the range parameters.

btw, having only one Chimera of Fear drop in 25m sucks soo much><
Edited by Dasaq on 11/16/2012 11:55 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Priest
13930
11/16/2012 11:44 PMPosted by Dasaq
You need to stop being so harsh on Sotan Elethia=(


I'm not being harsh on Sotanaht. I've said the exact same thing to everyone who's argued for breaking the party restriction on PoH.

Electric Sheep is a 25M raiding guild. I've almost exclusively raided 25M since BC. I'm well acquainted with PoH's shortcomings on spread fights and it's comes down to whether your raid leader takes a few moments to appropriately sort the groups, and whether you're good enough to know who to heal to ensure everyone who needs to be hit is hit.

I can reference Mel'jarak for personal experience on that. Our raid leader sorted groups, we had group healing assignments and I kept tabs on who was where and made heavy use of myself as the target to ensure everyone received PoH-Spirit Shell.

Anyone who honestly thinks PoH can become a smart heal, or partially converted to a smart heal, without serious nerfs to the healing strength of the spell as a whole is being foolish. PoH is as potent as it is precisely because of the party restriction.

Even if it were magically tuned so Spirit Shell distribution remained accurate and even, we'd still see the same problem Disc is seeing right now: a gross over-reliance on a single spell to do the vast majority of our AE healing. Between the raw heal, Divine Aegis and PoH-fueled Spirit Shell, can easily do most of our healing (on my last Garalon kill, it accounted for almost 80% of my healing).
Edited by Elethia on 11/17/2012 1:07 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Priest
17620
Then your raid leader is terrible about placing people in groups appropriately. -shrug-

Maybe not every fight, but Heroic Garalon 10 is a very good example. You will -never- hit everyone--and, because of the spread nature of the melee on that fight, you rarely hit more than 2 people at once in the melee group. That's not even to mention the kiter.

I agree that our reliance on PoH is excessive. I actually think that making PoH a smart heal and reducing its healing would be a step in the right direction.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
0
11/16/2012 10:31 PMPosted by Elethia
Very few fights let you use the full 5 targets of PoH for all your raid healing needs, in fact I can't even think of ONE. Either there is some point in the fight where you are too spread out or stacked in semi-random groups, or else where only 1-2 people in each group are taking damage at a time (note: that's still 5-10 people taking damage which does call for raid healing rather than single-target).


Then your raid leader is terrible about placing people in groups appropriately. -shrug-


How about I go through fights then?

Stone Guards: lots of people spread out everywhere, especially for heroic tiles. Other than explosions and jade shards damage is fairly random and wont be all 5 people in a group even if that group is all in range.

Feng: Plenty of great uses for full group PoH, but the main damage in between those periodic hits we love to spirit shell is random. Generally around 5-10 random people get hit with some kind of shadowbolt every few seconds (forgive me if I don't know the actual spell).

Garajal: Voodoo dolls are random raid damage, they may only change every couple of minutes or so but you will never have them all in one group. Spirit realm also splits groups and is bad both above and below for PoH.

Spirit Kings: Qiang is great for PoH, after that you spend most of your time spread out heavily. There is plenty of raid damage, but very few chances to get a 5target PoH after he dies.

Elegon: This one's just a mess from start to finish, worst fight in the instance for PoH. First phase damage is random targets. Spark phase requires very careful organization for PoH to do any good. Last phase would be good, although preshielding doesn't matter since spirit shell is bad for that fight.

Will: With proper execution (no one gets hit by things they arent supposed to) the only raid damage is gas in normal, which PoH should be fine for. It's useless to take care of the raid damage that actually does happen though.

Zor'lok: Probably good all the way, so there's one. Attenuation might be a problem.

Ta'yak: Spread out for the entire first phase, damage outside of unseen strike is random

Garalon: The damage is perfect for PoH, but the spread isn't. Between the tanks, pheremones, pheremone healer, and melee all being pretty much everywhere it tends to be an issue. You might be able to get 2 full groups out of 5 though.

Mel'jarak big big BIG pre-shield fight, but phase 2 comes with very heavy spread in order to avoid bombs and whirling blades.

Un'sok: Constructs break groups, nothing really major though so I guess this fights fine.

Shek'zeer: A lot of random damage but there should be enough to get a good PoH anyway. Dissonance will break groups though and you are going to have to organize spreading out by groups for the main phase. Add phase damage might be too random.

Protectors: Touch of sha on random players.

Tsulong: Far too chaotic to run group based spreading. Not too sure how our strat is going to work out next time though, may need to reevaluate.

Lei Shi: The only non-tank damage in normal (get away) is fine for PoH, heroic looks to be random damage again but we havent gotten there yet.

Sha of Fear: about as bad as it gets for PoH. very heavy spread to deal with adds, but more importantly the only really healing intensive part of the fight takes 5 mostly random players at a time, so there is no way to group them for PoH. Even if you arent healing the 5, we have 10 missing from the main group at almost any given time dealing with this mechanic.
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I've stated it before, and here I'll state it again. PoH is not tuned to require all 5 targets to need/get healing in order to be efficient. As long as 3, and maybe even 2 depending on the circumstances, need the healing and get it, it will be a mana-efficient choice.
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90 Dwarf Priest
13265
11/17/2012 08:10 AMPosted by Alifer
I've stated it before, and here I'll state it again. PoH is not tuned to require all 5 targets to need/get healing in order to be efficient. As long as 3, and maybe even 2 depending on the circumstances, need the healing and get it, it will be a mana-efficient choice.


While this is true, efficiency isn't the concern of people posting in this thread. The issue is healing coverage and the limitations that PoH has in providing that coverage. Casting a ~2.5 second PoH to hit 2 people simply isn't a good use of time given the potential for the spell to hit 5.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13930
11/17/2012 01:59 AMPosted by Sotanaht
How about I go through fights then?


On many of the fights you listed, the damage is either light, can be taken care of with Atonement or Cascade, or there's no guarantee players will even be in range of one another for a smart heal like CoH.

You're really reaching on a lot of it. Stop trying to make Prayer of Healing do something it was never, and should never, be designed to do. All you'll succeed in doing is hobbling Disc even further to a single spell.

Nevermind that your proposed change, unless you wanted to make it Disc exclusive, would impact Holy as well and likely bring it to ridiculously overpowered levels after the 5.1 buff.

Be smart about this. Stop trying to make a single spell workable in every AE situation.
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90 Human Priest
11690
Why not just make it to where when spirit shell is active it only heals 5 in group. Every other time a smart heal? Easy solution=win.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13930
11/19/2012 04:55 AMPosted by Ronfår
Why not just make it to where when spirit shell is active it only heals 5 in group. Every other time a smart heal? Easy solution=win.


Not really. You'd still have to balance both to avoid making it OP/UP and continue to have the same issue of PoH being practically the only heal used/worth using.
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34 Night Elf Priest
0
If they implemented PoH as a castable version of CoH, than that would completely obliterate the concept of "choosing your heals wisely."

It takes all of the thought out of priest healing, since we'd just be able to spam 1 spell to heal everyone.


You mean like every other AOE heal in the game?

If other classes don't need to think, why do priests? :\
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