Cross-Realm Zones Update

100 Tauren Druid
11585
10/30/2012 01:40 PMPosted by Bullderp
It's not about competition for nodes. That's just what some people want to think all the complaints are. Those people haven't actually bothered to READ the complaints, people like yourself.


Thanks for the personal jab. That tickled.

There are complaints about node competition, and quite a lot of them. Did I limit my response to assume all complaints where about node competition? No? You mean I included other major gripes such as constant ganking and slogging through quests? I thought as much. And here I was beginning to think I was going crazy.

Your first mistake was to assume that your complaint about CRZ is everyone's complaint about CRZ. Your second to assume that I only am aware of a few. I did indeed read the complied list of all issues and suggestions found in the (now locked) CRZ threads. Some I agree with, others are preposterously silly. I happened to pick a few (those I see quite frequently) and roll with it.

Is CRZ the be all and end all solution to every problem found with lowpops? Nope, and I'd argue that it wasn't even meant to be.


Your post I responded to led with this:

The fact that people are going to (or have) quit over CRZ is just laughable. You not getting your outdated ore and herbs as much as you used to is 'game breaking'? Rly?


So don't get on my case for making you out to be one of the dismissive jerks, since you posted exactly like they do.
100 Blood Elf Priest
14655
Before I say anything, thank you, Ry, for the post in our old thread, and thank you for giving us another sticky. Few and far between blue posts may be, but I for one appreciate it when there is one, even if the ones we get can be labeled "too little, too late".

This thread is my last hope of remaining on WoW. I'm not waiting forever for this destructive forced-public-beta-test to be resolved. My account is up in February, and CRZ will be my reason for leaving the game, and removing my $15 per month support that I've given Blizzard since January of '07, plus the purchases of Warcraft I, II and III and related expansions, as well as Diablo I, II and expansion, and III through my AP.

I was going to pick up Starcraft. I don't feel that Blizzard needs more of my money, if they can't even have the sense to REMOVE CRZ and keep it on the Beta/PTR until these bugs are resolved.

10/30/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Rygarius
We also continue to see some reports that people are being dismounted when crossing borders. Single-player mounts should not being doing this, so please post any details in the Bug Report forum if it continues happening. There are technical limitations preventing multi-passenger mounts from holding separate characters when crossing a zone boundary. Unfortunately, this isn’t something that we can quickly or easily fix.


Out of all that, this is what bothers me the most.

This alone makes me never want to set foot anywhere CRZ is active. This essentially says my boyfriend and I can not play together, since if one of us leaves our keys for a moment, we have to sit still and do nothing, whether we're on high-levels doing world events, or high-level-transporting-low-level for world events.

If follow doesn't work, and the multi-person mounts we worked our butts off to purchase are now worthless, why should we even bother playing together?

10/30/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Rygarius
Despite a few lingering technical issues, we’re happy with how CRZ is populating the leveling areas with other players, and helping to once again foster MMO social experiences in the 1-85 content.


What is this, I don't even?

So you are saying that Blizzard as a whole still thinks taking $25 for a server transfer and dumping them back into the same mix of players is perfectly fine?
You are saying, essentially, that you're fine with the ganking and running, griefing, harassment, rudeness and trolling going on is fully endorsed by Blizzard?
You are saying, for all intents and purposes, that we have to deal with hostile environments because the zones are either WAY OVER POPULATED or COMPLETELY EMPTY, depending on what CRZ cluster we are part of, and that's what you were aiming for?

What social experiences? I see people who tell me to get off their server, when I didn't CHOOSE TO BE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

It looks to me like you all did read A FEW of our concerns, but are still blinded by some of the more important ones we've brought up, such as our server choice, and especially those who PAID TO LEAVE A SERVER DUE TO HARASSMENT OR HOSTILITY.
Those people should be refunded every CENT of what they spent to be dumped right back onto the server they PAID to leave.

I will post this here again, with comments in ** blah ** form to show changes:

Bugs - this has been covered multiple times.
Glitches - this has also been covered multiple times.
Summary of both include:
* Dismount between zones from both single- (rare occurrence) and multi-person mounts (persistent/common occurrence) ** ADDRESSED, but now we're being told it will take a very long time to fix ... so we can probably expect fixes sometime in 7.4 **

* Taxi issues (including flight paths, boats, and zeppelins vanishing when crossing zones, and in the case of boats and zeppelins, chained loading screens, freezing and transporting the player back to where they started or simply in the middle of the transport, which has caused the old "Stuck Falling In Stonetalon" effect of falling through the world unable to logout, become unstuck, or on force-closing the WoW client can cause characters to be unable to log in properly, or to be dead in various zones (commonly Crossroads for Horde players) upon login)

* 5-10 seconds of freezing between zones

* Severe FPS drops

* Random phasing "realm" changes in Sub-Zones (named areas within a zone, such as, in Northern Barrens for example (in random order, going from memory, and my boyfriend currently flying around checking Sub-Zone names): Gold Road, The Forgotten Pools, The Stagnant Oasis, The Sludge Fen, Dreadmist Peak, Thorn Hill, The Dry Hills, Lushwater Oasis, Shine of the Fallen Warrior Merchant Coast, and towns/quest hubs. I'm sure there are more Sub-Zones, but this list gives a good example of what I'm talking about.

* Time-Zone changes that can result in jarring night-to-day, day-to-night, and abrupt weather condition changes, the lighting effects of which have been known to cause headaches, nausea and in rare occurrences, seizures - all of which are legitimate medical issues; some of the people I know avoid raiding due to the lighting effects causing them headaches and possible seizures. **ADDRESSED, however, we're just given a rehashed version of what we were told before - +/-3 hours is STILL. TOO. MUCH. **

* World Events do not function properly due to the fact that they may be in a Cross Realm Zone, where the time is never consistent (Brewfest Tapping of the Keg, Burning of the Wickerman, Darkmoon Faire Portal, Gurubashi Arena) - to the point where Fishing Tournaments WERE REMOVED because of CRZ's timing issues. ** ADDRESSED, however, it appears Blizzard is unable to go further than +/-3 hours, as this comment was rehashed from the last thread. This will still not give us our fishing tournaments back, nor will it fix World Event timing. **

* Pet Battle spawns do not function properly due tot he fact that they may be in a Cross-Realm zone, where the time is never consistent (Widow Spiderling, Restless Shadeling) ** ADDRESSED, with the same +/-3 hour rehash **

** Moving to an "Azeroth Standard Time" may solve this, as this line hinted:
10/30/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Rygarius
One of the ideas being floated around is potentially changing how regional time zones work on a very fundamental level.

I'm not holding my breath. **

Exploits:
Many of these are called "features of CRZ" and are "working as intended":

* Asking AFK/Low Level Real ID friends to invite them to their low-population or "dead" server to farm

* Asking AFK/Low Level Real ID friends to invite them to their low-population or "dead" server to gank/grief/harass

Forced Work-arounds:
* In outdoor groups/raid groups, for events, World PvP raids, RP events so all participants are on the same server

* In outdoor groups/raid groups, to ensure all participants are on the CORRECT server (in the case of Cross-Realm Real-ID based raids for Sha of Anger in Pandaria)

* In Real ID groups for questing to ensure that all players are in the correct phase of the quest

Harrasment/Griefing:
** ADDRESSED. Apparently the social levels are doing great, and everyone loves it! ... yet, these issues HAVE. NOT. STOPPED. **

* Players in /say, /yell or in optional General or Local Defense chat telling other servers' players to "Get off my server" in usually rather rude ways, usually including expletives

* Players killing NPC quest givers specifically so players from realms other than their own cannot pick up or turn in quests

* Players killing quest targets specifically so players from realms other than their own cannot complete quests they do have

* Players from PvP servers that know they are cross-realm zoned with NON-PvP servers waiting for unsuspecting PvE players to cross borders or zone into areas to kill them before they've loaded in - usually done in such ways that there is no hope of fighting back (Level 90s camping in groups/raid groups in Blasted Lands near the Dark Portal, for example)

* Players camping lower-level players, then jumping across zone borders when the hint of a defense group shows up to return fire (on both PvE->PvP crosses and on PvP servers) so there is no way to properly fight back (in the case of PvP resolutions to PvP issues)

* Lower level players cannot properly call for help on PvP servers due to Gankers crossing borders and disappearing

* Lower level players cannot properly call for help on PvP servers due to CRZ placing the incoming helpers on a different realm than the player(s) calling for help
* No way to Ignore OR report players from a realm other than your own for any kind of harassment and griefing, or for Name and/or Guild Name reports, or for Language

Community Breakdown:
**ADDRESSED... but again, apparently CRZ is still "working as intended" to continue to destroy communities. **

Many of these are listed above, but will be repeated here:
* Realm choice is no longer our choice

* Lower level players cannot call for help properly on PvP servers

* RP events and scheduled outdoor raids cannot go forward due to griefing, CRZ dropping players in a different phase/realm than the one where the event is happening (SOME may have work-arounds to clear up the problem, some do not)

* World Events do not function properly

* Players constantly hear "Get off my server" from players not on their own server

* Many have mentioned that once they would let others finish quests, but now wish they could kill their own faction just so they can get things done.

* Fewer people go out "into the world" and instead hide in areas that do not (currently) have CRZ implemented.

* Proudmore - Nothing more needs to be said here.

Fraud:
* Blizzard continues to accept payment for server transfers, when in fact the server that a person pays to join may be part of the Cross-Realm cluster of the server they paid to leave, negating the reason to pay to transfer characters to another server, and thus reneging on a paid service, as no effective service has been rendered (other than, at CURRENT, in Orgrimmar, Stormwind, and Pandaria). In cases of people leaving due to hostile environment, this is particularly bad.

False Advertising:
* World of Warcraft is no longer a game where all play styles are supported, pushing away younger or "casual" players (those with very limited time to play due to Real Life), when prior to CRZ, being able to play for only 15 minutes a day could be productive and fun.

* There is now a jarring 5-10 second loading time between zones, and some sub-zones, when advertised as a seamless game.

* Victims of harassment and griefing have no recourse (violations of the ToU/ToC/ToS go unpunished)

* Players no longer have the CHOICE of what realm they play on.

Issues still exist that have nothing to do with TECHNICAL bugs or glitches.
CRZ still does not make WoW a better environment than it did before.

It may be LIVABLE to have to go out to old Azeroth/Outland/Northrend when the bugs are fixed, but I'm only going there when I ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO to get something done, as I did with Pet Battles.. I spent only as much time as it took to get my pets appropriately leveled, and BAILED OUT. There are still a lot of pets I want, but I just don't want to deal with the BS that CRZ is to get them, or go play with Archaeology (something else I REALLY enjoyed prior to CRZ), or even go get the rest of my Loremaster zone-achievements. NO desire to deal with the destruction of CRZ.

This does not put me back into the world. It makes me HIDE IN ORGRIMMAR, STORMWIND, OR PANDARIA.
100 Tauren Druid
11585
Wow. What a disappointment. Am I supposed to be surprised that you are working on the bugs? What a sad state of affairs.

Let me know when you're ready for a real discussion about the inherent issue: the community erosion that naturally accompanies any population availability feature and your proposals for offset.


Now that you point it out, it IS a lot of words to tell us that people at Blizzard are doing their jobs.
100 Dwarf Hunter
10335
10/30/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Thalois
Pandaria zones are starting to get pretty empty, I really hope Blizzard introduces CRZ to Pandaria soon.


God help anybody doing the fatty goat steak daily for the Tillers on the day that occurs.
100 Night Elf Druid
11505
Well, Blizzard is happy with it. That's all that matters!
90 Blood Elf Hunter
12690
10/30/2012 01:50 PMPosted by Mishotem
Now that you point it out, it IS a lot of words to tell us that people at Blizzard are doing their jobs.


QFT
100 Tauren Druid
11585
10/30/2012 01:51 PMPosted by Rollo
Pandaria zones are starting to get pretty empty, I really hope Blizzard introduces CRZ to Pandaria soon.


God help anybody doing the fatty goat steak daily for the Tillers on the day that occurs.


Oh, come on. The social experience caused by CRZ is great! Blizzard said so! There'd be NO problem, no problem at all.

CRZ in Pandaria! Do it Blizzard!
40 Orc Warrior
3570
does someone want to answer ME! whens ptr back up ffs!
1 Human Mage
0
Well that's it I'm done. One less person to gank I guess. Oh and one less monthly sub for blizz.

They spoke now it's my turn to speak w/ my wallet.

Oh and btw let me cancel my account, I already have game time paid till after my contract.

It's been fun while it lasted. (sometimes)
90 Draenei Monk
11665
10/30/2012 01:38 PMPosted by Mishotem
They don't need to kick it down to +/0 permanently (although they SHOULD) just for the fishing tourneys and world events, and just for those specific zones. So, Saturday/Sunday for STV and all of Northrend, and starting zones for holiday events. Every other day of the year, whatever. No need to create a universal time zone, or whatever, just use the settings they claim they had when they first introduced this "feature".


There aren't enough servers of each type in each datacenter to do the 0 time zone change.

And despite them saying they can turn it on and off at will, I do not believe them. If they could, they would, and the fishing tournaments and holiday events would not be affected.

I personally want Elwynn, Dun Morogh, Teldrassil, Azuremyst Isle, Eversong Woods, Durotar, Tirisfal Glades and Mulgore NON CRZ DURING ALL HOLIDAYS. Why?

Just imagine Noblegarden with CRZ. You think egg finding is bad NOW? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA Thank you Jebus that I did my egg hunt years ago. No reward they could add would be worth that headache of staring at an egg spawn point for 12 hours, missing a bunch of them due to 10 people being at the same spawn point, just to get enough eggs with 100 people in the zone.

you too, you tosser.

Cheers.


Snipped out the 4 letter word.

This is why people hate anti CRZ folks. And this is the kind of attitude I want put in check in game.

1. Needs to be +/- 0 hours and not, which I am sure they will do, make every realm in every battle group be on the same time. I do not want to be on a PST server ever, regardless of if they are in my data centre or not because of the lag which exists. (It exists, although nowhere near as badly, even if I make a brand new character on a PST server in my data centre.)


Again, there aren't enough servers of each type in each battlegroup.

I don't want my connection rerouted to Chicago because you want to keep your time zone. That's lag for me. Latency > time zone.

10/30/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Ohmai
This is precisely the kind of "improved social experience" CRZ gives us and they wonder why people don't like CRZ *sighs*


And that's why they need to enforce their code of conduct.

Anyone got a mailing address for Morhaime? Not sure if the federal offense bit of opening mail not addressed to you applies to corporations and I want this letter on HIS desk. Not some lackey.
90 Draenei Monk
11665
10/30/2012 01:55 PMPosted by Bloodsurge
does someone want to answer ME! whens ptr back up ffs!


How about asking in a thread that has something to do with PTR?

10/30/2012 01:56 PMPosted by Reoni
Oh and btw let me cancel my account, I already have game time paid till after my contract.


Call billing.
100 Blood Elf Hunter
14480
10/30/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Reshaari
They don't need to kick it down to +/0 permanently (although they SHOULD) just for the fishing tourneys and world events, and just for those specific zones. So, Saturday/Sunday for STV and all of Northrend, and starting zones for holiday events. Every other day of the year, whatever. No need to create a universal time zone, or whatever, just use the settings they claim they had when they first introduced this "feature".


There aren't enough servers of each type in each datacenter to do the 0 time zone change.

And despite them saying they can turn it on and off at will, I do not believe them. If they could, they would, and the fishing tournaments and holiday events would not be affected.

I personally want Elwynn, Dun Morogh, Teldrassil, Azuremyst Isle, Eversong Woods, Durotar, Tirisfal Glades and Mulgore NON CRZ DURING ALL HOLIDAYS. Why?

Just imagine Noblegarden with CRZ. You think egg finding is bad NOW? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA Thank you Jebus that I did my egg hunt years ago. No reward they could add would be worth that headache of staring at an egg spawn point for 12 hours, missing a bunch of them due to 10 people being at the same spawn point, just to get enough eggs with 100 people in the zone.

you too, you tosser.

Cheers.


Snipped out the 4 letter word.

This is why people hate anti CRZ folks. And this is the kind of attitude I want put in check in game.

1. Needs to be +/- 0 hours and not, which I am sure they will do, make every realm in every battle group be on the same time. I do not want to be on a PST server ever, regardless of if they are in my data centre or not because of the lag which exists. (It exists, although nowhere near as badly, even if I make a brand new character on a PST server in my data centre.)


Again, there aren't enough servers of each type in each battlegroup.

I don't want my connection rerouted to Chicago because you want to keep your time zone. That's lag for me. Latency > time zone.

10/30/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Ohmai
This is precisely the kind of "improved social experience" CRZ gives us and they wonder why people don't like CRZ *sighs*


And that's why they need to enforce their code of conduct.

Anyone got a mailing address for Morhaime? Not sure if the federal offense bit of opening mail not addressed to you applies to corporations and I want this letter on HIS desk. Not some lackey.


It applies to everyone, I assume. But hey, if a lackie gets it, opens it, burns it... how does he... or you know? O.o
90 Orc Death Knight
3300
10/30/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Rygarius
Despite a few lingering technical issues, we’re happy with how CRZ is populating the leveling areas with other players, and helping to once again foster MMO social experiences in the 1-85 content.


That's fantastic. I'm so glad you're happy.

Now then, might I suggest doing something to make the people giving you $15/month and $25 for completely ineffective server transfers happy? They're basically a scam at this point, you know. All you're paying for is a different word at the end of your in-game character name now since there's no individual realm identity or unique communities anymore. Just a suggestion.

Oh, your answer was a huge middle finger to those customers that you've ignored for the last two months? Dear me, you must not have gone to business school.
100 Blood Elf Priest
14655
10/30/2012 12:04 PMPosted by Reshaari
Despite a few lingering technical issues, we’re happy with how CRZ is populating the leveling areas with other players, and helping to once again foster MMO social experiences in the 1-85 content.


Sorry if this sounds rude but...

Can you start enforcing your code of conduct now?

Sick of people being douchebags just because they can and know they won't be punished for it. That's not very fostering of MMO social experiences. If I wanted to surrounded by jerks, I'd go hang out at the local bar. At least drunks are regulated by law.

Thanks. If you're not going to follow your own policy, that's quite the double standard and needs to be enforced both ways. Otherwise, get rid of it.

You want us to abide by it, you need to start enforcing it, and not on a case by case basis. If you don't enforce it, then we don't have to abide by it. Legal contract 101.


This. 1,000,000,000xThis.

I left Silver Hand because of an ex-friend I never wanted to see again.

Yet in CRZ areas, I'm crammed onto a conglomerate of Feathermoon-ThoriumBrotherhood-SilverHand-MoonGuard-ShadowCouncil-EarthenRing-ScarletCrusade-TwistingNether-WyrmrestAccord-BlackwaterRaiders, whether I play on Wyrmrest Accord or Feathermoon.
I'm still dealing with Silver Hand players - people I NEVER. WANTED. TO. SEE. AGAIN. Thus, I STOPPED PLAYING THERE.

If I cannot ignore them or report them, what's the point in changing servers?

Taking money from players transferring from one server to another and then putting them BACK on that server against their choices is FRAUD.
100 Dwarf Hunter
10335
God help anybody doing the fatty goat steak daily for the Tillers on the day that occurs.


Oh, come on. The social experience caused by CRZ is great! Blizzard said so! There'd be NO problem, no problem at all.

CRZ in Pandaria! Do it Blizzard!


As a single server's worth of level 90s spamming their AoEs and NOT TEAMING is already so much fun I dread the Skyrange-based dailies when they come around in the rotation, I'm sure nine servers' worth of level 90s spamming their AoEs and STILL NOT TEAMING will be positively effing magical.
100 Tauren Druid
11585
10/30/2012 01:58 PMPosted by Reshaari
They don't need to kick it down to +/0 permanently (although they SHOULD) just for the fishing tourneys and world events, and just for those specific zones. So, Saturday/Sunday for STV and all of Northrend, and starting zones for holiday events. Every other day of the year, whatever. No need to create a universal time zone, or whatever, just use the settings they claim they had when they first introduced this "feature".


There aren't enough servers of each type in each datacenter to do the 0 time zone change.


Is there 1 server of each type in each datacenter? Then there's enough. They don't NEED to merge for holidays or fishing tournaments.


And despite them saying they can turn it on and off at will, I do not believe them. If they could, they would, and the fishing tournaments and holiday events would not be affected.

I personally want Elwynn, Dun Morogh, Teldrassil, Azuremyst Isle, Eversong Woods, Durotar, Tirisfal Glades and Mulgore NON CRZ DURING ALL HOLIDAYS. Why?

Just imagine Noblegarden with CRZ. You think egg finding is bad NOW? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA Thank you Jebus that I did my egg hunt years ago. No reward they could add would be worth that headache of staring at an egg spawn point for 12 hours, missing a bunch of them due to 10 people being at the same spawn point, just to get enough eggs with 100 people in the zone.


Ha! I did all my holiday stuff, for the most part, long ago. But maybe what people need is the kick in the pants that CRZ during Noblegarden would bring. Or CRZ in Pandaria. That'd wake people up to how much of a problem this thing is.

I disagree about the flexibility. I don't think they'd claim they can do a thing if they couldn't actually do it. I'll give Blizzard that much credit, at least.
I've always said that the sharded server system is one of WoW's biggest and most intractable problems. "Oh, you play too? What server? Crap. Not mine." And I'm honestly in favor of some of the cross-realm work that's been done. For example, I like the RealID dungeon/raid group concept that was introduced back in Cata, that allows for people who play on different servers and know each other iRL to work together. That was good.

But CRZ just kind seems kind of... pointless. Not experience-ruining for a PvE server, but... pointless.

I'm not so rabidly hateful of CRZ that I want to tear its throat out with my teeth, but I'm honestly not sure what CRZ brings to the questing-zone table, except brief flickers of interaction - very mildly cooperative or competitive - with people I can't really friend and am never going to see again. It's not even like in the Dungeon Finder, where the challenges are designed to be tackled as a team; Questing zone stuff is almost entirely designed for solo work. So either we buff each other once, or try to steal each others' quest loot, gathering nodes, and zone clickies, and that's it, that's the sum of my interaction with other-realm players in quest zones. There's no zone bosses in 1-85 that we need to suddenly group up and fight for huge rewards, or zone challenges we need to deal with as a zone-wide PUG, and therefore, no need for that population to be there to make things function.

I don't really see what all these man-hours spent coding and debugging CRZ are really trying to achieve here, UNLESS it's a precursor to a one-server, instance-based setup a la STO/CO and some other modern MMO's.
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