Cross-Realm Zones Update

90 Dwarf Priest
13700
What about the rubbish that CRZ brings to the game play and social aspect of the game? LFD and LFR are avoidable. I chose my realm because I like my realm. This is adding another layer of rubbish to the social aspect of this MMO.

Rygarius, you are addressing the technical side of CRZ but not the social implication. Which in my experience has been far more negative than the positives of having zones more populated.
90 Blood Elf Hunter
13795
10/30/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Rygarius
Just to recap, cross-realm zones are meant to improve the leveling experience by increasing the amount of people in the same zone together


I have yet to see this "improve" anything in leveling. My experiences have been the same or worse.

10/30/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Rygarius
This is intended to reduce day/night jumps from occurring when crossing CRZ zones


I play from East coast and am getting thrown in PST. The time zone switch is sickening during evening / morning. Stars >> sun >> stars? Might I suggest +/- 0 or +/- 1? But the +/- 1 wouldn't help EST or PST servers... but throwing EST / CST players on PST servers is NOT the best way to go. Honestly, I don't ever want to be on a PST server. I don't like being forced on one. :(

10/30/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Rygarius
Despite a few lingering technical issues, we’re happy with how CRZ is populating the leveling areas with other players, and helping to once again foster MMO social experiences in the 1-85 content.


If fostering hate, griefing, harassment and an every man for yourself mentality is actually intended? Thank you for clarifying that. I will continue to refuse to speak to anyone outside my server, and to avoid people, especially from Darrowmere.

While I am thankful for a post... finally....

Rygarius, dear... you have touched on 2. TWO. points. And while the break from the silence was welcome and I do love you for it... there are a lot of things that are either not being addressed, or are not even being listened to (re: helping foster social experiences)

"Issues with CRZ:

1. Ruining of Immersion
a. Rubber band effects at zone borders
b. Time Changes between zones
c. Inability to recruit players from other servers to guilds and trade
d. Language Barriers (Brazilian Servers and American Servers mixing)
e. RP Conflictions
f. Quest Waiting **
g. Camping of Quest Givers (can fall under griefing)
h. Illusion of Populated Zones
i. Time zone differences causing issues with timed events like fishing tournaments (Thank you Adelaide)

2. "Community" not really a community
a. Griefing
b. Inability to Report (Ignore and Report features not working for other server players due to "This Player does not exist" messages"
c. Harassment (There are reasons why people paid for server transfers)
d. General / Trade Chat spam (Normal for any server but an issue when you have the normal of 2-3 servers combining into one)
e. Low Population servers enjoying Low population community and vice versa for High Population servers.
f. Lost sense of community and pride in home server (Thank you Ayrie)
g. Bigotry in once safe havens (Thank you Serunna)
h. Server vs. Server more than Alliance vs. Horde (Thank you Sauceror)
i. Stalking (poster wishes to remain anonymus)

3. Economic
a. Low Population AH Issues
b. Node Sharing without node spawn increase **
c. Rare spawn sharing without Spawn increase **
d. Crowding (All the issues of high population servers with few if any of the benefits)

4. Bugs and Issues
a. See Above under "Ruining of Immersion"
b. Disconnects
c. Tradeskill resets
d. Mob "Evade" issue
e. /who only showing people in the zone from your server (Thank you Banard)
f. Major Lag issues (Thank you Searc)
g. Phasing Issues (Thank you Adelaide)
h. Skill spam entering Zones [old school weapon skill and language skill] (Thank you Banard)
i. Increase ticket numbers to blizzard for reporting farming bots. (Thank you again Banard!)
j. Tol Barad and Wintergrasp Control Issues (Alliance and Horde controling at the same time) (Thank you again Adelaide!)
k. Auto-dismounting upon changing zones and falling to your death (Thank you Tippi)
l. PvE and PvP zones/realms being mixed. (Thank you Shadowshadë)
m. FPS issues (Thank you Kiraleen)
n. Error#134
o. Raid groups are able to keep changing servers and taking avantage of stuff like the darkmoon fair rabbit. (Thank you Shadowshadë)
p. Quests dropping out mid-zone due to issues where you should be phasing for that point in the quests (like in Uldum) (Thank you Aiera)
q. Cross realm restarts and Server Restart overlapping/not in sync (Thank you Vynianyx)
u. Passenger dismounting upon changing zones. (Thank you Lefteous)
v. Disconnecting and logging back it to where your hearthstone is set (Thank you Aiera)
w. Glyph of Charm Animal not translating over into new zones (Thank you Kurston)
x. NPC Fade issue (Thank you Lianxin)
y. Raid groups server hopping to farm bosses and raids.
z. Inability to Report (Ignore and Report features not working for other server players due to "This Player does not exist" messages"
Aa. Unclickable Npcs (Thank you Pegwynnie)
Ab. World Defense Spam (Thank you Joynal)
Ac. Ports/Hearthstones/Tabards fail if the realm the destination zone is hosted on is down (Thank you Gothitelle)
Ad. Guild People "Vanishing" in CRZ areas (Thank you Eluniar)
Ae. Unable to return to corpse after dying due to the zone becoming a CRZ (Thank you Cybrind)
Af. "Instance Not Found" messages - (Thank you Guilltaur)

5. MISC.
a. The feature is not as how it was explained previously and lack of communication with the implementation of it. (Thank you Buffybot)
b. Not effective/Working as intended (Thank you Nicolay)
c. BETA "feel" (Thank you Ofcorpseican)
d. Holiday competition issues (Thank you Scytheblade)**
e. Rare mob camping and timing issues (Thank you Turtoth)**
f. Questing is Solo-oriented (Thank you Murmurs)

----------------

---- HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS ----
1. Combine similar population servers. Leave High/Full Population servers out of it. (Thank you Vynianyx)
2. Do not Include the zones of Tol Barad and Wintergrasp (Thank you Vynianyx and Velisae)
3. Only combine realms of similar time zones (Thank you Vynianyx and Velisae)
4. Do not combine MoP Zones until well after the release (Thank you Velisae)
5. Dynamically increase Node spawns (Thank you Velisae)
6. Rare pets/spawns "Realm phased" (Thank you Velisae)
7. Make CRZ Optional (Thank you Autumn)
8. Make CRZ stricter with realm types (Thank you Sweetpeaz)
9. Don't allow cross-realm groups for characters on separate accounts under the same battle.net account (Thank you Nobs)
10. Restrict the level that can initiate a cross realm. (Thank you Nobs)
11. Players must be reasonably close to each other for the phasing to occur (Thank you Nobs)
12. Cap the number of players that can be phased in a group (Thank you Nobs)
13. Make Daily Quest Hubs Phased by Server (Thank you many people!)
14. Free Transfers/Close Servers/Split the Zones instead of Combine them (Thank you Calyto)
15. Faction Balance in Zones (Thank you Kiebler!)
16. Allow for free transfer upon joining a guild on another server (Thank you Kurston)
17. Keep the merged servers within the same battle groups
18. Cut down the zones that are CRZs (Thank you Protshotz)
19. Bring back Group Quests/Bosses (Thank you Murmurs)
20. Make the cross-realm zone instances separate from those on persistent servers and give us a flag to enter such zones or not. (Thank you Elagabalus)
21. Add a pop-up that explains the nature of a phased realm. This will help players be aware of PvP realms having constant-flags, and roleplay realms being in-character environments. (Thank you Yaegar)
22. Add a timer for CRZ quests to discourage bots from farming under the quest pretense (Thank you Ranthoria)
23. Cross Realm AH
24. Make some parts of the game able to be CRZs as opposed to the majority (Like Firelands was) (Thank you Nixilaas)
25. Make CRZ Invite only via RealID/Battletags (Thank you Yabba)
26. Less XP penalty for grouping (Thank you Akvon)
27. Allow for accepting quests in zones higher than is currently allowed (Thank you Akvon)
28. CRZ Level Restrictions to zones (Thank you Nidawi)
29. When RealId party is created and all party members are phased, make rare, rare-elite, boss mobs invisible to the players from another realm (Thank you Aligatro)"

(http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6521292325)

:)
Edited by Kwanyi on 10/30/2012 12:56 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Warlock
0
Blizzard, honey? I want to say I'm disappointed in this answering machine quality-level response, but really, I've come to expect it. Nothing important was really addressed, such as the peoples' displeasure, the highly noticeable switching from day to night when you cross zone borders, the disappearance of rare spawns (pet or otherwise) upon landing from a flight path, or the fact that CRZ (Cross-Ralm Zones) has essentially given people from other realms diplomatic immunity to do whatever they please because they cannot be reported. My experience has not been improved one bit by the pet project that is CRZ.

For those that fuss at others complaining they get ganked on a PVP realm, I can see where the former are coming from: you made a toon on a PVP realm, which involves getting ganked. At the same time, I can see why the latter are frustrated, as getting camped for several hours is not fun, and CRZ makes it difficult to get help due to the random nature of the phasing process. I don't really have a stance on this, as I chose to play exclusively on PVE realms.

As for those who say "most people like/dislike CRZ," even though I'm very, very against CRZ, please provide evidence that your claim is true.
Edited by Máteus on 10/30/2012 1:05 PM PDT
90 Draenei Paladin
11620
10/30/2012 11:04 AMPosted by Rygarius
Despite a few lingering technical issues, we’re happy with how CRZ is populating the leveling areas with other players, and helping to once again foster MMO social experiences in the 1-85 content.


...Really?

I should be grateful at all for a response at last, but when it's a fairly generic post regurgitating things from the last time we got any response, it's kind of just adding to the frustration and dislike.

Also.

Really?

How in the world can you guys be that out of touch? Where does it foster this magical thing called the positive social experience? Because it's not been positive for quite a lot of us, at all.

To reiterate from one of the other threads I posted in:

Wyrmrest Accord has been "high-pop" for the last several years. I never minded. I specifically chose to move from a lower pop. server to a higher pop. server for more community, more people, more interaction, better economy. Wyrmrest was great for all of this: I loved my full, bursting-with-activity server, and I never minded the competition, because it was my own server. I knew the people, I knew the community, and on the whole, competition was mostly healthy rivalry. We even have a wonderful, active community forum hosted and run by Wyrmrest players.

CRZ changed everything, and I really don't think this kind of change is "good." On the bad days? I don't even want to play, and that's really sad, because I am absolutely in love with the Mists expansion otherwise.

I'm tired of reporting. I'm tired of enduring griefing. I'm tired of the rudeness, the inability to tell what server I'm even on, and I'm especially tired of the constant swapping of timezones, night-day brightness switching on me abruptly to give me wonderful migraines, and the way CRZ chokes up my system every couple of seconds.

If I wanted to be on that timezone, I'd have rolled on that server. If I wanted those people in my community, I'd have rolled on that server. If I wanted that population, I'd have rolled on that server.

Unfortunately, I rarely get to be on the server I chose, and I rarely see anyone from my community out in the world since I'm not actually "home," and If I somehow get "lucky" enough to remain on Wyrmrest, CRZ yanks players from other servers, exploding the population past high-pop. to sardines in a tin can, which means the population I chose is no longer a choice, either, and I still don't get to see many--if any--people from my own community.

Manually grouping up is not a guarantee or a viable solution for sticking with family and friends, either. More often than not, one or all of us still gets phased out and pulled elsewhere. Leveling up with my roommate or my partner has been a disaster far too often thus far, and a major inconvenience at best because in being completely phased out from each other so often, we might as well not be playing together, and what's the point of that? Leaving the zone, coming back, all in order to even see each other or interact again for questing and RP is ridiculous and also not a guarantee.

Frankly, CRZ is one of the worst-implemented ideas I've yet seen since the fiasco that was the original implementation of RealID. The outcry's as bad (worse?), too, but this time there's been no real reassurance or comment, other than what amounts to as the mantra of "intended."

I really don't get how any of this can possibly be intended, but let's look at the argument that CRZ was implemented with certain "populations" in mind and competition and CRZ phasing affecting resources is all part of the gameplay.

Actually, first, if I'm being honest, I don't even care about spawns or resources at this point, but it's what keeps getting brought up as the driving force behind CRZ's implementation.

"Healthy" competition is normal. I totally agree with this as being part and parcel to an MMO. Large communities are normal, too. I won't dispute that, either. I can handle competition, I can handle camping, and while I don't like them and don't find it "fun" or "engaging" gameplay, I've done it in the past because it used to be worth the frustration and tedium. It's not really worth it any more, though, not with CRZ implemented.

In my experiences so far, spawns/resource nodes show up on fly over for my own server, but landing tears me away to some random server I didn't ask for, and performs the sardines-in-a-tin-can move while removing the spawns or resources we're all even jockeying for in the first place.

A good example of this is that, at the beginning of this CRZ nonsense, Wyrmrest spawned Aeonaxx so he was up and flopping around in Deepholm. A player could see him while flying around, but... no one could get to him. He was simply not interactive. Once a player moved in close, or landed, the dragon went away, poof, vanished. No dragon. Because CRZ kicked in, and yoinked the player off-server to fill gaps in low-pop servers. "Working as intended."

Pet battling is another, far more consistent example. It was implemented along with CRZ, so it should be working more smoothly, right? Bzzt.

Minfernals are one of the worst spawns (and there are many) to chase after. Personally, I waited until a server restart for mine rather than endure the effects of CRZ on it, since Wyrmrest is most often one of the first realms back up after maintenance. And what about all the poor suckers who are some of the last to be brought back on line? Waiting on a restart isn't even an option for them.

My conclusion after that, the Sporeling Sprout, and the Flayer Youngling, (a combined total of several weeks' worth of effort even with restarts) was that when the only semi-viable solution to the overload of competition and broken phasing is to "game" the CRZ system and the spawns through restarts or server hopping/ID invites, that should say something, and not something nice, about CRZ as a whole.

Bottom line is, CRZ does not foster community, it separates community. It does not foster healthy competition, but encourages insane levels of griefing and stress and frustration. It does not foster "fun gameplay," but encourages isolation, as well as many players participating in what amounts to snaking a broken system just to get anywhere.


To reiterate for those that still think the issue is something as asinine as whining about rares or nodes, you're missing the point, congratulations.

Code of Conduct needs to be reinforced. Furthermore, the issues with ganking are not just "lol don't roll on PvP servers" either. The phasing issues with CRZ and the mechanics of the way it works right now means there is no guarantee that "PvP can be solved with PvP" like it used to.

I could go on and on and on, but I feel like a broken record.

Edit: Kwanyi did a post far more eloquent than mine 2 posts up. Read that, too.
Edited by Astarin on 10/30/2012 1:00 PM PDT
90 Tauren Druid
11205
As promised, we wanted to give you all an update on what we’ve been working on with regards to the cross-realm zone feature. Just to recap, cross-realm zones are meant to improve the leveling experience by increasing the amount of people in the same zone together, while also allowing you to quest with your Real ID or BattleTag friends. It’s a complex feature, and there are still some technical issues that we’re continuing to work to address. We’re committed to further refining the system so that it provides the best possible gameplay experience.


What improvement to the leveling experience? You reduced leveling to be the easiest thing possible, it didn't need groups. You took all of that out. If you wanted to make the leveling experience more interesting, you should put the actual need to group back into it. Making your game look busier doesn't improve the leveling experience.


This is an update on the technical issues we’ve been working on and some of the progress we’ve made.

Time Zone Jumps

Right now we have a three-hour time zone differential limit on which realms can be mixed together. This is intended to reduce day/night jumps from occurring when crossing CRZ zones, as well as time zone jumps that may cause world events to end earlier than intended. We agree that the day/night jump can be jarring, and planning for last minute turn-ins for events can be difficult and frustrating.

We’re still discussing how to best approach this situation. One of the ideas being floated around is potentially changing how regional time zones work on a very fundamental level. It’s a change we’ve been discussing for quite a while, and perhaps the CRZ system provides the catalyst to go ahead and make it. We’ll keep you updated as we consider the best solution.


Easiest solution for world events - turn off CRZ on those zones when world events, SCHEDULED world events, are meant to occur. Or reduce it to +/- 0 hours. Either of those will fix every issue with scheduled world events, aside from the problems with quests that cross zone borders, like the follow-the-spiders Hallow's End quest. But hell, that's probably too easy to do with a system that Blizzard bragged was fully customizable and able to be turned on and off at will.


CRZ Transition Lag and Performance

There are still some tech-related quirks


The word is bugs. Not quirks. Bugs. Bugs you knew about since May, and still pushed this feature to live play.


that are being hashed out, including framerate hitching when crossing into a CRZ zone, reports of performance issues, and resource nodes/NPCs/players disappearing. We’re still investigating each specific cause and working to smooth these types of issues out.

We also continue to see some reports that people are being dismounted when crossing borders. Single-player mounts should not being doing this, so please post any details in the Bug Report forum if it continues happening. There are technical limitations preventing multi-passenger mounts from holding separate characters when crossing a zone boundary. Unfortunately, this isn’t something that we can quickly or easily fix.

Despite a few lingering technical issues, we’re happy with how CRZ is populating the leveling areas with other players, and helping to once again foster MMO social experiences in the 1-85 content. The process for tuning CRZ is of course one that’s ongoing, and we’re committed to continuing to work on it and iron out any remaining issues as quickly as possible. If you do have bugs to report, please provide details and the reproduction steps (if possible) [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1012660/"]on the Bug Report forum[/url]. Providing detailed information helps tremendously, and when possible, add your report to a relevant thread before creating your own.


You're happy with people being griefed by roving mobs of PVPers 50+ levels higher than their targets? You're happy with people killing quest givers? You're happy with people being harassed and insulted by people in-game and those players being harassed and insulted being completely unable to report them, or even put them on ignore? You're happy with THAT social experience? Because a lot of players aren't. But I guess the negative feedback doesn't count for Blizzard.

As I said above, if you want to foster the social experience of 1-85 zones, GIVE PEOPLE REASONS TO GO TO 1-85 ZONES.


Thank you again for your feedback. We’re continuing to monitor reports and we’ll provide updates as they become available.

Reference: This is an update to the initial thread discussing [url="http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6679517893"]how Cross-Realm Zones work[/url].


I'd say you're welcome, but it's pretty obvious from your post that you're not actually listening to more than half the feedback.

Oh, and one more thing. Put CRZ in Pandaria. I guarantee you the reason most players aren't offering feedback on CRZ is that the glow is still on the expansion. You put CRZ in Pandaria and you'll get plenty of feedback, so much that it would actually be hard even for you to ignore.
Edited by Mishotem on 10/30/2012 1:03 PM PDT
19 Human Paladin
1445
Pandaria zones are starting to get pretty empty, I really hope Blizzard introduces CRZ to Pandaria soon.
MVP
90 Tauren Druid
11165
The time zone thing seems like an easy fix. Put all realms on the region in one Time Zone. Bam. Problem solved (which I guess is what was suggested by mentioning 'fundamental changes.')

As far as the rare pet competition goes, I actually think the CRZs are serving their purpose. The pets were meant to be hard to get, so they would be, well, rare. The CRZs force a more competitive environment, so the pets get hard to get as intended.

The real problem that has to be addressed is the realm hopping to find rare pets. Several players are riding groups to hop from realm to realm to find whatever rare spawn they're looking for. If people are grouping through Battletags or RealID, you probably want to prevent them from looting rare spawns. An alternative would be to put them somewhere isolated (A battletag-group-crz?) where they can't bounce around once grouped. The current RealID group setup leaves the world wide open for exploitation and should be addressed. Patching this hole would go a long way towards addressing the concerns with rares in general.

All that said, I'm a bit surprised by the push Bliz is giving the CRZs in general. The intended purpose is to give players a more social experience while leveling, but the design of the game itself is contrary to that goal. Questing was tuned to be a single-player experience way back with WotLK leveling. With Cata (and now MoP) every quest from 1-89 is a 'solo' quest. Some quests - especially collection type quests - are even hindered by multiple people in the group. The CRZs may be a step in the right direction to bring the social aspect back to leveling, but without an actual reason to group up, I don't think you're going to get the desired results.
Edited by Darmoch on 10/30/2012 1:00 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
16345
Any idea on whether or not you might up the spawn times of rares in these zones? For example TLPD. A lot of people transfer to low pop servers for a better chance at these, and now there's 400 people camping it 24/7.
90 Pandaren Hunter
7575
I see exactly zero changes. Not changes that incorporate posted feedback mind you, just plain changes. You've posted a blue wall o'text that says 'well yeah we think some of you MIGHT have some problems with CRZ.... but overall it's a really good thing!!', which is, once again, an opinion you're forcing on the player base. I'm not going to claim to speak for the playerbase or know its opinion, but please don't bull!@#$ me and say most people are happy to see other levellers in the same zone. I whisper people EVERY DAY for dailies, asking if they'd like to group up. It happens sometimes, it doesn't others. Most of it is spent experiencing the same frustrations as CRZ: "He stole my node/mob/flower/quest item"

Oh and at least people know they can't use the RAF mounts they paid a lot of money for, that were intended to be used with friends.
58 Troll Death Knight
0
10/30/2012 11:12 AMPosted by Fancypants
CRZ still sucks.
This.

If you want to update it then give us an optout option.

Despite a few lingering technical issues, we’re happy with how CRZ is populating the leveling areas with other players, and helping to once again foster MMO social experiences in the 1-85 content. The process for tuning CRZ is of course one that’s ongoing, and we’re committed to continuing to work on it and iron out any remaining issues as quickly as possible.


You continue to be completely out of touch and ignorant of the majority of the feedback you are getting. That you are actually happy with the "MMO social experience" you have created, surely indicates to me that this is no longer the game for me. I was waiting to see how this was going to go, I have my answer now. I'll be leaving after my AP is up as well.
Quoted for truth.

-

You have around 13k here, i did read quickly some pages and the majority dont like it. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6679517893

and thats just one thread complaining about CRZ I linked. Btw thanks for locking our feedback.

"Go to a PvE realm"? Im already on a PvE realm, thank you and I still hate CRZ.
Edited by Scyl on 10/30/2012 1:54 PM PDT
90 Human Paladin
5285


Nodes are intended to have competition. Phasing them to a specific server's players defeats one of the purposes of CRZ.


I was actually thinking specific players. Bill and Bob are both miners on the same server, but cannot see nor interact with each others copper nodes. Then again, I think gather should be more interesting and involved than running up to something and clicking on it.


I don't think that's a good idea. I think nodes should be competition, like Mobs BUT I think nodes should only be competition between players on a specific server. Do you know how hard it is to get Obsidian ore in any meaningful amount? Impossible due to CRZ.
90 Dwarf Paladin
18775
My problems with CRZ are the complete destruction of any lack of community and people getting dismounted off of my drake when I cross borders. I didn't buy a 20k drake to not carry people around.
10/30/2012 12:54 PMPosted by Judgernaught
We’re committed to further refining the system so that it provides the best possible gameplay experience.


Well then, that's that. In esssence they are committed to cutting their nose off to spite their face, at least they admitted the multi passenger mount bug is unfixable. Other then those 2 points the rest of the post is vague at best and disheartening at worst.

Still no mention of what they intend to do about the fishing tournaments either.


They didn't say it was unfixable, they said it is difficult to fix. The fishing tournament requires a client patch, they mentioned that in the last update.

Pay attention and learn to read.
90 Human Warlock
12895

Time Zone Jumps

Right now we have a three-hour time zone differential limit on which realms can be mixed together. This is intended to reduce day/night jumps from occurring when crossing CRZ zones, as well as time zone jumps that may cause world events to end earlier than intended. We agree that the day/night jump can be jarring, and planning for last minute turn-ins for events can be difficult and frustrating.

We’re still discussing how to best approach this situation. One of the ideas being floated around is potentially changing how regional time zones work on a very fundamental level. It’s a change we’ve been discussing for quite a while, and perhaps the CRZ system provides the catalyst to go ahead and make it. We’ll keep you updated as we consider the best solution.


I honestly think sticking all servers CRZed together on the same time zone, even if it means changing their current one, is no problem at all. What does it really matter what time zone the server is in as long as they're all the same?
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