A R1 Rogue's View on the State of Rogues

90 Night Elf Rogue
13025
11/09/2012 09:06 AMPosted by Timat
khuna


Who?


something like a 2200 rated rogue in arenas. Beliueve he's over on the EU side
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100 Human Rogue
13355
You forgot to mention that you cant bait(?) intimidating shout with Cloak.

Very good post.
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90 Undead Rogue
6230
Posted by Solicited
Shuriken toss not applying poisons on PTR

Wait....what?

You sure this is not a bug...cause....wow

#11
3 hours ago
Like


I dont think I would take ST if they remove the poison portion. I love it now but that would kill it in my opinion.
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90 Human Monk
14430
rouges are overpowdered
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Very good post but I would prefer Prep baseline over Shadowstep.

Active R1 Rogue you are now my Rogue God.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
6040
11/09/2012 05:31 AMPosted by Solicited
Evasion was nerfed to a 3 minute cooldown with Mists of Pandaria, and now provides only a 50% dodge chance.


Also keep in mind that our basline dodge got bumped down to ~15%. No bueno.
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90 Human Rogue
5635
Posted by Timat

khuna

Who?


11/09/2012 09:10 AMPosted by Nanaya
something like a 2200 rated rogue in arenas. Beliueve he's over on the EU side


why do people feel the need to open their mouths when they have no clue what they're talking about?
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90 Night Elf Rogue
13025
Posted by Timat

khuna

Who?


11/09/2012 09:10 AMPosted by Nanaya
something like a 2200 rated rogue in arenas. Beliueve he's over on the EU side


why do people feel the need to open their mouths when they have no clue what they're talking about?

/shrug seen him once. I'm just not into watching other people play games when I can play and get better myself.
Edited by Nanaya on 11/9/2012 11:54 AM PST
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100 Gnome Rogue
13510
11/09/2012 05:44 AMPosted by Alacast
it would also correct most of the PVE issues as well.


Explain to me the issues we're having with PvE now?
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90 Night Elf Rogue
13025
it would also correct most of the PVE issues as well.


Explain to me the issues we're having with PvE now?


some rogues are having a lack of this thing called "fun" because of a damage spread that's uninteresting and abilities that are completely useless in PvE. Also, I'm pretty sure rogues have the hardest time soloing rare mobs in MoP (they're not hard, but we have it hardest) speaking to a lack of soloing capability.
Edited by Nanaya on 11/9/2012 12:19 PM PST
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90 Human Rogue
9780
Agree with everything in this thread. (Mostly)

*Swoosh*
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90 Human Rogue
3335
11/09/2012 12:19 PMPosted by Nanaya


Explain to me the issues we're having with PvE now?


some rogues are having a lack of this thing called "fun" because of a damage spread that's uninteresting and abilities that are completely useless in PvE. Also, I'm pretty sure rogues have the hardest time soloing rare mobs in MoP (they're not hard, but we have it hardest) speaking to a lack of soloing capability.


This. Oh this. I die every time yet I've seen mages and spriests not have any issue.

Great post. New to the pvp side of rogues, so much of it is hard to understand, but the general issues are evident to all playstyles.
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100 Gnome Rogue
13510
11/09/2012 12:19 PMPosted by Nanaya


Explain to me the issues we're having with PvE now?


some rogues are having a lack of this thing called "fun" because of a damage spread that's uninteresting and abilities that are completely useless in PvE. Also, I'm pretty sure rogues have the hardest time soloing rare mobs in MoP (they're not hard, but we have it hardest) speaking to a lack of soloing capability.


There will always be abilities that are more or less desired for pve than pvp and vice versa. Smoke Bomb is a great example of this. That can't be helped.

"Uninteresting damage spread" = Unavoidable lack of haste at the beginning of the expansion. We will still see the counter argument of "Combat is so boring because all you do is spam SS all day" near the end of mop.

The last argument of it being harder to solo, that I will take as a legitimate problem. I have to cling to life with leeching poison Shivs on cooldown, and a good amount of Kidney shots, to keep myself alive for rares, and I did end up losing a rare kill in the Vale yesterday to a mage that killed me, then let the rare reset and almost downed him before I got back to my corpse.

But thats more of a "those classes still need to be nerfed down to appropriate levels" issue, which we should be seeing in 5.1.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
13025
"Uninteresting damage spread" = Unavoidable lack of haste at the beginning of the expansion. We will still see the counter argument of "Combat is so boring because all you do is spam SS all day" near the end of mop.


ambush hits for 10k in pvp on a level 75 target, 50k max in PvE

The issue is more like having unsatisfying buttons to press, rather than not enough (except in Mut's case)
It doesn't help that the abilities never crit, resulting in only rarely seeing when you do good damage, making the abilities feel less satisfying. Honestly, I'd be bored to death if backstab didn't have its' sound effect.

The last argument of it being harder to solo, that I will take as a legitimate problem. I have to cling to life with leeching poison Shivs on cooldown, and a good amount of Kidney shots, to keep myself alive for rares, and I did end up losing a rare kill in the Vale yesterday to a mage that killed me, then let the rare reset and almost downed him before I got back to my corpse.


Just a tip to help make it easier, Gouge and dirty tricks are amazing on rares. 1 minute to bandage and gouge is an impromptu interrupt that if timed correctly (latency forgiving) can interrupt abilities like monks' spinning crane kick or Hozen's going bananas attacks before they can do anything, but after the initial cast is finished.

Rogues do have the absolute lowest survivability of any class, though, which is part of the reason it's so tough.
Edited by Nanaya on 11/9/2012 12:49 PM PST
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Gladiator rogue here. With multiple glad titles among my accounts on rogues

To the "remove prep or remove step from tree" debate.
Honestly prep/step is the reason blizz has screwed us over in CDs lately. A lot of the increased CDs are renewed with Prep so blizz wanted to extend the Cds to account for using them twice in a short period. Even though prep is a talent CHOICE and not baseline

Logically I would rather see Step removed from the tree to allow for improvement upon it through some talents to add some flavor, but as previously stated, if we lose step from the tree we will definently pick prep.

My counter arguement.
Remove both prep and step from the tree. Remove prep from the game and make step baseline. lower CDs to account for the removal of prep from the game (Vanish 1-2 min/cloak 1 min/evasion 1-2 min/and lower step CD to 20 seconds).

After this, add 2 new abilities to the mobility tree to add some flavor to step.
Maybe something along the lines of
A. "Your shadowstep now has two seperate Cds, one for when stepping to friendlies and one for stepping to foes. " (This would still be significantly less mobility than charge/safeguard).
B. "The cooldown on shadowstep is reduced to 14 seconds and increases the damage of your next offensive finisher by 25%"
C. Then some tweaks with BoS to you know... make it even a choice (or u could remove it, that would be just as cool)

there, now we have done a significant amount to increase rogue viability/controll with just a quick overhaul of one talent tree.

As to the passive damage issue

In PVE uptime is significantly higher than PVP, so white/passive damage is extremely high damage, however in PVP when victories are built around burst opportunities and Cd based CC chains, passive damage doesnt cut it. This would require some number tweaking on blizz to increase CP generator damage for sub, then mutilate/envenom damage for assassination. Then reduce the white and poison damage of sub, and reduce assassinations white damage again.

Other tweaks could be:
-Recup and SnD rolled into one buff, seriously aint nobody got time for dat! And recup is a straight up waste of combo points except when there is literally nothing else to use the points on.
-VW for assasination can again benefit from rupture and garrote together, this would give them more burst and on demand damage without seriously buffing pve DPS.
-Deadly throw made baseline again with the talent adding the interupt and some sort of redirect effect that automatically applies to DT so we can actually utilize the CP and dont get juked when a healer hears the redirect sound.
-A change to shadow blades to account for significantly reduced passive damage, so that rogue burst doesnt get marginalized further.

This is all i have atm, tried to keep as much "Were not as OP as warrior's" out as I could.
Edited by Zimax on 11/9/2012 2:36 PM PST
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90 Human Rogue
7605
Very good thread.
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100 Goblin Rogue
10355
Well written and good job OP.
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100 Human Rogue
7925
Great post.
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90 Undead Rogue
12405
Hopefully this doesn't fall on deaf ears, but I won't get my hopes up. Ever since MoP hit the devs seem like complete mongoloids, especially GC. Would it be too much to ask to put people in charge of class balance who actually play the game on an above average level?
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90 Human Warlock
5865
Well put together. Hopefully this doesn't fall with the other thousands of posts regarding Rogue issues.
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