Soldiers of Pandaria : 5.1.0 Arms PvE Guide

90 Orc Warrior
9360
*For Arms, we are going to try Overpower proc'ing Sudden Death instead of autoattacks. This will make haste slightly worse (which we can fix) but we hope will help make the rotation slightly more compelling, since autoattack procs can feel really random. With Overpower you can anticipate it a little more.

*Likewise, Overpower will cost no rage in Execute range. We agree that saving rage for Overpower and spending it all on Execute don't play well together.

*We haven't made a tuning pass on Arms (or any spec) yet. Don't fret about DPS numbers at this stage.

Thoughts? I don't know how to take the "which we can fix".. wonder if they have an idea in mind or if they're just gonna bandaid something

Edit:
Sudden Death - Your Overpower hits have a 25% chance of resetting the cooldown on your Colossus Smash.
Your Execute hits have a 100% chance of making any Overpower free for 10 sec.

And talking about reducing Slam cost to 20 rage.

Feels like the RnG from Live thirst for blood won't be lost after all with the new Sudden Death
Edited by Yolk on 1/24/2013 10:25 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
12950
I really hope they're finally going to break down and give Arms at least a Sanctity of Battle style passive, to reduce gcds/MS cooldown. At this point, with all of the changes, even a 100% buff to haste would leave it as a really bad stat for us.

The new Sudden Death makes Overpower definitely more useful than Slam, even at high rage levels, except during the CS window, during which you probably want to be slamming all you can.
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90 Tauren Warrior
10105
I see you are gemming str Secondwind, is that the optimal way to go about it. I ask because I have been spending lots of gold going back and forth between gemming str and crit. I seem to do the amount of dps either way. Any advice would be appreciated:)
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90 Human Warrior
12950
01/25/2013 11:15 PMPosted by Moncho
I see you are gemming str Secondwind, is that the optimal way to go about it. I ask because I have been spending lots of gold going back and forth between gemming str and crit. I seem to do the amount of dps either way. Any advice would be appreciated:)


There's an inflection point where Crit becomes better. I actually passed that point a couple item levels ago, but the difference is like less than 200dps on the sim, and I can't be bothered to spend the gold regemming for a difference that won't even be noticeable to me. Besides I like my big numbers. (Yeah I'm a baddie D:)

Either way, at 498 ilvl, you should be well past that point, and if you care about being optimal, crit is probably the way to go for you.
Edited by Secondwind on 1/26/2013 8:29 AM PST
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90 Worgen Warrior
5975
Couple questions-one, can someone explain everything the tooltip fails to explain about arms' mastery? Does it have an ICD, what, can it still proc itself?

Second, how does DPR breakdown, and does anything interact non-linearly with colossus smash? Does heroic strike inside CS do more damage than slam when CS isn't up?

Third, rotational question. I've seen really big numbers from layering CS inside CS, since it hits for almost as much WD as slam now and it doesn't benefit off its own debuff when you apply it, unless the debuff's already been applied, and rage is a liquid resource. The priority i've been using is, only do it if it's the last global I can fit into CS, i have no OP procs left to burn through for more stacks, and mortal strike isn't up. Thoughts?
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90 Worgen Warrior
5975
Dammit Collision, wizard this for me already.
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Dearest Drunkbeard,

While configuring weak auras for arms I started using your guide as a template and find I must take issue with some of the assertions you make therein. Your stated priority queue is thus:
SINGLE TARGET ROTATION

Arms Warriors single target rotation revolves around a priority list. You always want to use the highest move in the priority list.

CS > MS > OP > HS (with 1 or more stacks of TfB) > Slam > HS (at 60+ rage)

This is not consistent with the default simcraft rotation, and the mechanics as I understand them. For those unable to understand it the simcraft rotation is thus:

MS>CS (If debuff duration is less than 1.5 seconds remaining)>Execute>Overpower>Shockwave/Dragons Roar>Slam (w/ cd debuff)> Battle shout (Rage <70 and no CS debuff) >Slam (no CS debuff) > Impeding Victory > Battle shout (Rage <70 and CS debuff is up)

Heroic Strike use, being off the GCD, and the triggers are many. The summary being if you have 5 stacks of TFB, the debuff is about to expire, if you have high rage, or deadly calm up.

I respect that your list is simplified and does not include so many conditions, abilities, or execute. The main point of contention is CS > MS versus MS > CS. The rationale behind prioritizing MS over CS is the same reason fury prioritizes BT > CS. MS is your primary resource generator and as such the increased damage from MS under the CS debuff does not make up for the 25% increase in MS cooldown and the resulting rage loss. In addition, it should be noted that the damage of slam is greater than that of MS, and as such it will benefit more from the CS debuff than MS. Finally, they duration of the CS buff being 6 seconds gauntness it will be in place for exactly one complete MS cooldown window.

I am curious as to what your rational for prioritizing CS above MS is and if you could kindly link any relevant math.

Yours truly,
Quinten

P.S. I also have questions regarding your late activation of sweeping strikes and why you have chosen 2->3 as the breakpoint for going from SS to WW when other guides have that breakpoint as 3->4. This is secondary though.
Edited by Quinten on 2/7/2013 8:34 AM PST
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90 Worgen Warrior
5975
Couple responses, quinten. CS is 6.5 seconds, not that it yet matters as long as you have decent latency. I'm actually not sure what base MS dmg is, but with the 2piece MS is definitely stronger than slam. Further, there is a nuance to CS-that it is free, does nearly slam's dmg. Almost all of arms' gcd locked alternatives to slam are free, meaning that of the four attacks you can use inside CS, all they need is to do more than 80% weapon damage and it plus the heroic strike you get from saving the rage from slam are more effective for the short window of CS.

Also, simply according to landsoul, the simcraft action priority for arms just kind of sucks.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
12470
I agree. I think Drunkbeard's priority list is relative to Bloodbath as the talent of choice, in conjunction with Deadly Calm - within a CS window.

MS hits hard (even harder with tier bonus) and because it actually generates rage, it has a higher DPR than Slam. This is CRUCIAL when you need to fit in as many HS as you possibly can during BB+DC, within a CS window. In that situation, MS+HS or OP+HS will beat out Slam every time.

All of this is going to change once 5.2 hits, however. No more DC and added rage cost to OP will change the priority system a little. And then of course there's so many other things (apparently right now every dodged attack grants 2 OP stacks rather than one, and Landsoul speculates it is okay to not cap expertise), and changing the cast time for OP - everything seems experimental at this stage and we won't know until 5.2 actually hits.

Speaking of 5.2 - I read today in MMO-champion (under "DPS tuning adjustments"), for Arms, Deep Wounds is "increased by +100%". Can anyone currently on the PTR clarify what this means? Is it 100% more damage? 100% more ticks?

Something to be hopeful for, I suppose...
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Regardless of what order you use it in, you will get exactly 1 mortal strike in the CS window, never 0 unless you delay the mortal strike for some reason. In hindsight the added information of how hard slam hits shouldn't have been included, since the CS debuff lasts for 1 6 second window (MS cooldown).

Delaying MS equates to adding 1.5 seconds to it's cd, and decreasing rage from MS by 20%. And should not affect the number and types of attacks landed while the CS debuff is up.
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90 Orc Warrior
16815
speaking about 5.2 a couple of things:

first, no. the deep wounds buff its not on the PTR yet.

also, due to the fact that HS its pretty much gone for arms and the buff to storm bolt, it seems that arms can move away from bloodbath safely.
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90 Human Warrior
10595
Assuming the patch is coming out pretty soon, does anyone have the potential new rotation yet?
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90 Human Warrior
4850
Since when Arms can't stack engineering gloves and trinket Badge of Victory together in a macro?

Fury can...weird.
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90 Human Warrior
10965
02/19/2013 09:50 AMPosted by Marston
Assuming the patch is coming out pretty soon, does anyone have the potential new rotation yet?


Messing around on the PTR against a dummy, here was my rotation in a nutshell(please correct if I'm wrong but this seems to be fairly a decent guess on my part):

MS, CS, OP, OP, SL.

After looking at recount however, Slam hits like a truck. It's regular hits hit harder then OP crits, so I'd say try to squeeze in as many Slams as possible during CS. I barely ever used HS as I didn't find myself rage capping much(probably won't be the case in raids with raid buffs and what not).

I have to say though that I really like the new Arms playstyle. There is always something to push, and ironically it feels faster and more "furious" than Fury with it's constant button pushing, compared to Fury where you spend a lot of time sitting around waiting to ragecap and/or for CS to come off CD.
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90 Human Warrior
10595
Yeah, thats why i liked cata arms alot. There were no gaps in the gcd that needed to be filled. Sounds good if its going back to that somewhat.
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90 Human Warrior
10595
Would an upgraded H starshatter be better than upgraded shinka with both sockets?
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Hey, I am having huge DPS problems and could use some help. I am at 480ilvl my hit and expt caps are where they need to be, in 10 mans I am putting out like 45-50k dps. I have my rotation down, I don't have my dancing steel enchants but windsong for now. I am being told I should be up around 70-80k dps...but I am nowhere near that. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
4855
The only thing i can think of is when he was making the guide he obviously wanted to use CS (for the debuff) before using mortal strike. At the start of a fight the debuff will not be up and as such, using CS first would be best, he may not have accounted for after the fight began however, and this could be where the confusion is. I truely dont know, i just click buttons until the enemy dies, and that works well enough for me ;)
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90 Night Elf Warrior
12470
Hey, I am having huge DPS problems and could use some help. I am at 480ilvl my hit and expt caps are where they need to be, in 10 mans I am putting out like 45-50k dps. I have my rotation down, I don't have my dancing steel enchants but windsong for now. I am being told I should be up around 70-80k dps...but I am nowhere near that. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


A few things:

At ilvl 480, you should be around 75k-80k range. Here's some ways you can improve your DPS.

1) Your gemming is suboptimal. You have a mix of strength-centric gems and crit-centric gems. That's no good - either go full strength-centric gems (+160 str for red, +80 str/+160 crit for yellow, +80 str/+160 hit for blue) or go full crit-centric gems (+80 str/+160 crit for red, +320 crit for yellow, +160 crit/+160 hit). Gemming full strength means you're going for the most attack power you possibly can, while gemming full crit maximizes your enrage uptime.

That said, it's better for an Arms Warrior to gem strength if your gear set is lower than ilvl 485. If your gear set is ilvl 485+, that's when gemming crit produces best results, in simulation and real time.

2) If you're running as Arms, Lessons of the Darkmaster is better than Carbonic Carbuncle. Do keep in mind that Carbuncle is better for FURY.

3) Glyph Choices - Glyph of Unending Rage is a must. Enables you to have a larger rage pool during times of high rage gain, enabling you to dump extra rage for Heroic Strikes when Bloodbath+CS is up. This should be a noticeable DPS increase when you are fitting as many attacks as you can within a Bloodbath+CS window.

Glyph of Death from above is another glyph that can lead to a DPS increase. It buffs your Heroic Leap damage by 100%, therefore it's a nice attack to use within your rotation (while CS is up) since it's FREE to use and it's off the GCD.

3rd choice is optional but I recommend Glyph of Colossus Smash so your CS applies sunders, or Glyph of Bull Rush for added rage gain at the start of the pull.

Note: Glyph of Recklessness is a DPS loss, as proven by logs and sims. Remove this.

4) Weapon upgrades are always the highest DPS boost, followed by trinket upgrades. If you have some Justice Points, upgrade your 463 trinkets. If you don't mind spending the valor prior to 5.2, upgrade your main hand weapon and Relic.

With that said, I notice you are also running a Fury spec. Your Shinka should be your MH weapon.

5) Make sure you are doing the proper rotation. This thread has an in-depth explanation, but in a nutshell: Use Dragon Roar outside of CS (because it already pierces through armor), and macro this with Bloodbath if you wish. During times when Bloodbath+CS is up, make sure you have pulled enough rage to be able to dump as many HS as you can with your rotation, without rage starving yourself.

Other things to consider: ALWAYS use MS on cooldown, even if you have procs of OP. MS = still one of your strongest attacks, gains you rage, and with a 4p bonus it's even stronger.

6) There will be times when you will have empty GCDs. Make sure you talent into Impending Victory to fill any empty GCDs.

These should help for now. If you have logs of you playing we can probably help you tweak your rotation a little too.
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90 Human Warrior
15615
So is a rotation of something like:

MS> CS > OPx2> Slam > HS during CS only

Slam feels like a rage dump now with the reduced rage cost and increased damage. I was seeing 300k+ crits during ptr testing. Is anyone else seeing this? Or do I have the priority wrong?

As far as gemming, would haste be the way to go or is crit still the best? I tried both on the PTR but without logs available I still haven't arrived at a conclusion. Haste seems like a good choice because of the buff and how much rage arms uses now (and the change to sudden death). Although crit is also really good. Anyone have some ideas?
Edited by Xonkjr on 3/2/2013 1:20 PM PST
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