[Mage] Mobility and L90 Talents - 2

90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
Still waiting on some changes to this =/

I know blizzard has acknowledged it but at least communicate with us about what you guys are thinking of changing.


Would love a source on acknowledgement.

Regardless... L90 talents need to change. Raiding with them is more of an encumbrance then helpful.

im sure 100% of mages who are exposed to using Evocation every 30 seconds just to keep dps at a competitive level will feel the same way.

screw Invocation.


Pretty much. I'm going to look into trying IW just so I can time them with Combustions if possible.
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60 Undead Rogue
8075
Still waiting on some changes to this =/

I know blizzard has acknowledged it but at least communicate with us about what you guys are thinking of changing.


Would love a source on acknowledgement.

Regardless... L90 talents need to change. Raiding with them is more of an encumbrance then helpful.

im sure 100% of mages who are exposed to using Evocation every 30 seconds just to keep dps at a competitive level will feel the same way.

screw Invocation.


Pretty much. I'm going to look into trying IW just so I can time them with Combustions if possible.


They did try to change it...but then refused to test it cause GC is pro at calculating unlimited mana at 50% mana regen reduction.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
8350
Signed, I would really like some kind of acknowledgement for blizz, rather then just be the ignored step child. It's ridiculous when half the time you wish you didn't have to take a 90 talent because you don't want to have to deal with it.

Edit: Maybe we should post this in the general discussion or arena forums, seems to be the only place blues are actually replying too. -.-
Edited by Timeturner on 11/20/2012 12:09 AM PST
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100 Troll Mage
17020
11/19/2012 09:35 PMPosted by Arcanefappin
using Evocation every 30 seconds just to keep dps at a competitive level will feel the same way


If you are using evocate every 30 seconds to say competitive, then you are doing it wrong.
If you use it every 40 seconds then you are doing it perfectly and doing much better than others most likely.
If you use it every 50 seconds then you are doing enough to do competitive damage.
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100 Human Mage
14930
11/20/2012 12:46 PMPosted by Hiroran
If you use it every 50 seconds then you are doing enough to do competitive damage.

This is wrong. From Lhiv's own numbers, it's guestimated with need to maintain +8.33% damage to remain equal with other classes. (At least this is the value that he's guesstimated we're supposed to have up on average)

As fire at my current gear level invocation is a 5.56 second cast.
40 seconds at 125% damage
5.56 seconds at 0 damage
10 seconds at 100% damage
-----------------------------------
107.99136069114470842332613390929% damage average

And 5.56 seconds of doing nothing is boring.
Edited by Mumrit on 11/20/2012 1:37 PM PST
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100 Troll Mage
17020
Yes and IIRC based on Lhiv's number that comes out to be using evocate around every 50 seconds.
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90 Human Rogue
9475
Mages have been the most OP class over the span of the last 5 years! Learn to adapt with a weakness! You bring competitive DPS to raids, do more than enough dmg in PVP, and you got to keep your OP toolset from Cataclysm!

Yet you fools continue to cry like a bunch of school girls.

/wrists
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90 Draenei Mage
0
Mages have been the most OP class over the span of the last 5 years! Learn to adapt with a weakness! You bring competitive DPS to raids, do more than enough dmg in PVP, and you got to keep your OP toolset from Cataclysm!

Yet you fools continue to cry like a bunch of school girls.

/wrists


So by your amazing logic, if I electrocuted myself and it gave me a dps increase. That would be alright? I don't care what my dps is or isn't, its not relevant in the talk of how much I hate these talents : / Intrusive maintenance buffs are not fun, and thats what these are for my game play. They are not fun to me, and I play this game to have fun.
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MVP
90 Human Mage
10015
11/20/2012 01:37 PMPosted by Hiroran
Yes and IIRC based on Lhiv's number that comes out to be using evocate around every 50 seconds.


Every 60 seconds at 20% haste was my estimate.

40 / 60 * 1.25 + 15 / 60 = 1.0833
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90 Goblin Mage
0
Thank you for posting this. I've had nothing but trouble with our level 90 talents. They don't feel like a rewarding or fun choice, but rather like finding the least awkward choice for the situation.
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11/20/2012 07:13 PMPosted by Minax
Thank you for posting this. I've had nothing but trouble with our level 90 talents. They don't feel like a rewarding or fun choice, but rather like finding the least awkward choice for the situation.

It's pretty obvious the complaints about the un-fun talents are falling on deaf ears. I just hope that enough Mages switching to fun classes will make the problem clear. But then they'll probably just boost Mage DPS instead of making it enjoyable :- /
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/21/2012 10:00 PMPosted by Mechanospout
Thank you for posting this. I've had nothing but trouble with our level 90 talents. They don't feel like a rewarding or fun choice, but rather like finding the least awkward choice for the situation.

It's pretty obvious the complaints about the un-fun talents are falling on deaf ears. I just hope that enough Mages switching to fun classes will make the problem clear. But then they'll probably just boost Mage DPS instead of making it enjoyable :- /


I'm just about ready to swap to Shaman, as I'm getting sick of being a Pure. Speaking of which... (making a new thread on that)
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
HUZZAH! NO FIXES! NO CHANGES BESIDES THEM NERFS! THEY IMPROVE OTHERS' QUALITY OF LIFE BUT CHOSE TO COMPLETELY IGNORE US! WOOOOOOOOOOOT!

^ this is how I feel atm because I'm tired of feeling so crappy about this. Brb ragequitting my Mage and playing my Shaman.
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90 Troll Druid
7605
You think Moonkin mobility to be better than a Mage's? You, sir, are quite wrong there.
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90 Undead Mage
8395
11/23/2012 04:29 AMPosted by Velaniz
You think Moonkin mobility to be better than a Mage's? You, sir, are quite wrong there.


did you even bother reading the whole thread?

@pewpew dude i just got my rogue and priest to 90 i gave up on the mage 90 talents. come 5.1 ill be grinding on reps and !@#$ so good luck. tired of being ignored by gc and his staff
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/23/2012 04:29 AMPosted by Velaniz
You think Moonkin mobility to be better than a Mage's? You, sir, are quite wrong there.


I'm well aware Moonkin mobility is quite poor, but at least you don't have to cast Astral Communion every 40s (oh and it takes 1.5x longer to cast) (Invocation). You're also not forced to stand 100% still to do DPS (Rune of Power), hell you're not too bad with Solar DoT Cleaving.

So yes. I DO think Moonkin mobility is better than a Mage's with these talent choices, but I will agree that your mobility is very poor, just barely above a Mage using Invocation or Rune of Power.
Edited by Pewpewblast on 11/23/2012 7:16 AM PST
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Sad that Blizzard couldn't make the level 90 mage talents *FUN* with 5.1

We all play a game to have *FUN*, when a talent tier sucks the fun out of that play then I can completely understand why folks like me (people with multiple alts between level 85 and 90) will reroll.
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100 Night Elf Hunter
12695
I'm hesitant to plead for Mage buffs considering how ridiculously powerful the class is already in PvE, but after playing my Mage alt at 90 for a while, it became fairly obvious that Invocation/RoP/IW need to be changed. They bring nothing to the table except reduced mobility and a lot of annoyance and frustration. It adds no fun or interesting mechanics to the class, it's just a dumb buff that has to be maintained like Savage Roar or Inquisition (aka the worst abilities in the game) except it takes twice as much micro-management and requires you to be stationary while refreshing it.

In short, the L90 tier for Mages is just horribly designed and SEVERELY detracts from an otherwise amazing/overpowered class.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11670
11/23/2012 01:32 PMPosted by Marxman
I'm hesitant to plead for Mage buffs

Nobody is asking for a buff. Just a change.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/23/2012 01:32 PMPosted by Marxman
I'm hesitant to plead for Mage buffs considering how ridiculously powerful the class is already in PvE, but after playing my Mage alt at 90 for a while, it became fairly obvious that Invocation/RoP/IW need to be changed.


These can be changed without buffing the class. Hell they can be removed and damage overall can get a damage buff as a result (maybe 6% to balance not having IW's passive, that being the lowest in damage, and passive, and assuming we get some sort of damage spell in their place?), resulting in just a new talent tier without a total increase to damage, and just a total increase in fun/QoL and a reduction in frustration and clunkiness.

11/23/2012 01:32 PMPosted by Marxman
it's just a dumb buff that has to be maintained like Savage Roar or Inquisition (aka the worst abilities in the game) except it takes twice as much micro-management and requires you to be stationary while refreshing it.


It's pretty clear you haven't played a Feral/Ret. It's at least 3-5x more frustrating and annoying to keep up Invo or stay in a RoP (and yes, I've tried all 3; maybe not at 90, but I did try them all at 80/85 when they still had SR/Inq)

11/23/2012 02:25 PMPosted by Naishee
I'm hesitant to plead for Mage buffs

Nobody is asking for a buff. Just a change.


Indeed. As a Mage, I will highly agree on the fact that my damage (as Fire only) is very, very, good, if not, the best out of all the speccs, with Frost not too far behind either. But, this damage comes with an AWFUL price: Those L90 talents.

***Please note again that this is a PvE thread, and PvP players are barely affected because no one in their right mind would ever take Rune of Power, and very few would bother with Invocation. While tweaking the talent tier may change PvP choices slightly, it's not intended to increase/decrease, or rather buff Mage damage at all in either aspect overall.***
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