[Mage] Mobility and L90 Talents - 2

The game is moving away from mana as a resource for dps casters. All I'm saying is that mages need to be brought up to date with that change. I keep looking at warlocks here because I think the redesign they got for MoP is absolutely brilliant. This is how it should be done. Shadow and Balance have their resources as well.

So this leaves elemental and mages as the only holdouts. Yes, I say mages, not arcane, because so long as arcane is stuck with mana, the rest of the class is too, indirectly. You could I suppose give fire and frost their own resource and leave mana intact for arcane...but I say give each spec a new resource and redesign the silly arcane mastery to account for that.

I'll leave elemental for shammies to worry about. Strongly suspect they'd be in a better place if they were redesigned to work with a new resource system as well.

Mages just didn't get a whole lot of attention during the design phase of this expansion, and it shows. Very badly so. And we are likely stuck with things are they are now until another expansion. They can patch things up and put bandaids on this mess and liptstick on the pig, but it's still going to be a pig.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/25/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Deerde
Yes, I say mages, not arcane, because so long as arcane is stuck with mana, the rest of the class is too, indirectly.


Actually no. Arcane can keep its awful mastery, they just need to completely remove and fix the L90 talent tier (Hell, bring back DB, Slow, and BW [our original beta choices] as our choices, just buff our damage across the board 6%+ to compensate [6% because that was IWs straight up passive, + because they all gave more than purely 6%]).

Mana is indirectly affecting Fire and Frost only because Blizzard pulled a dumb move and tied mana mechanics to the super-important-yet-awful tier.

11/25/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Deerde
Mages just didn't get a whole lot of attention during the design phase of this expansion, and it shows. Very badly so. And we are likely stuck with things are they are now until another expansion. They can patch things up and put bandaids on this mess and liptstick on the pig, but it's still going to be a pig.


I disgaree. Remember when Fire was worthless in T11, and even moreso in T12? Then, they gave it a band-aid fix by just buffing the damage. Boom. Fire is now playable and quite competitive (though I find it hilarious how FL = Arcane with one fight requiring Fire, and DS = Fire with one fight requiring Arcane...). This "band-aid" fix that we need would be scrapping the L90 talents, or at LEAST fixing them to not be so god awful. Then, next expansion, they could fix everything for real.

Even a simple tweak to Invocation would make QoL so much better. ALLOW IT TO BE CASTABLE WHILE MOVING. FIXED. FIXED FIXED FIXED. Yes, it'd still be awful since it still takes forever and adds downtime, but honestly, if I could cast it while moving, I wouldn't notice the problems half as much. At the very least, they need to remove the "can I finish my cast and take the hit, or should I stop and completely ruin my DPS for the next 15s?". That scenario should never happen with a support buff.
Edited by Pewpewblast on 11/25/2012 4:06 PM PST
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90 Human Mage
13835
Q: Any word on IW or Invocation?
A: Invocation works for Arcane, but feels too maintenancy for others. IW is a bigger topic. :)

Q: Any chance Mages could get rune of power castable on the move? :D
A: don't want it to be a buff you just hit on cooldown. Agree it needs a little work.

From GC's twitter.
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90 Undead Mage
8385
5.1 looming and still no word of any changes on our 90 talents.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9520
Doesn't look like they're serious about scrapping the talents, but at least they're looking at them. Still happy I switched.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
Q: Any word on IW or Invocation?
A: Invocation works for Arcane, but feels too maintenancy for others. IW is a bigger topic. :)


I like how he keeps responding to me like a hundred posts after I'm a total jerk to him XD

But, he did admit that IW is a topic and Invo is too "maintenancy" for non-Arcane (though I will admit it's probably fine for Arcane as it used to be part of the rotation and still is if you pick it... Haven't played Arcane yet to try, lol), so... 5.2?

*sighs* 5.1 tomorrow...

Definitely going to continue leveling/gearing up my Elemental Shaman and Shadow Priest (which our second group needs me monthly for...) and keep this thread open til 5.2.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11670
Q: Any word on IW or Invocation?
A: Invocation works for Arcane, but feels too maintenancy for others. IW is a bigger topic. :)

Oh eff that... Invocation most definitly doesn't work for arcane, at all. What kind of playstyle do they think you'd use with it? Continous burn phases interupted by evocations every 35 seconds? Geeh, compelling...
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90 Human Mage
IQ
8250
Invocation is actually worse for arcane on heavy movement fights. Where we have precious little time to stand still and cast to begin with. You cant be wasting all that time casting Evo.
Works fine on stand still crap.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
Q: Any word on IW or Invocation?
A: Invocation works for Arcane, but feels too maintenancy for others. IW is a bigger topic. :)

Oh eff that... Invocation most definitly doesn't work for arcane, at all. What kind of playstyle do they think you'd use with it? Continous burn phases interupted by evocations every 35 seconds? Geeh, compelling...


I'd say if Arcane was BALANCED it could work.

Otherwise, no.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11670

Oh eff that... Invocation most definitly doesn't work for arcane, at all. What kind of playstyle do they think you'd use with it? Continous burn phases interupted by evocations every 35 seconds? Geeh, compelling...


I'd say if Arcane was BALANCED it could work.

Otherwise, no.

Work from a damage point of view maybe. But the playstyle...? No, no and no again. Either it'd mean you just burn mana for 35 seconds (well, might have to do 5-10 seconds of mana neutral rotation at the beginning, at most), and then evo back to full. Or if it turns out that keeping high mana is better due to mastery... Well, then the evo is just a way to keep a damage buff and has nothing to do with mana. There's no way they can make invocation, in it's current incarnation, work well with Arcane, if Arcane is to be about mana management. None of the level 90 talents actually work well with Arcane, and have nothing to do with mana management, but with stupid ways to regen mana.

Isn't it funny how all the uninformed whining in Cata led to this incarnation of Arcane, which is the easiest to play since 2-piece T10 Arcane in Wrath, yet people think it's harder now, because there are more damage sources, and the damage sources are more spread out... Yeah, I'm unhappy. Arcane may not have been perfect in Cata (far from it), but it had that mana management thing down; only problem being mana regen scaling. If they made mana regen static, Cata Arcane would be awesome. And then they went and made mana regen static, which would have solved almost all problems Arcane had in Cata. And then we got this... *sigh*
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90 Undead Mage
8385
well boys and girls of dalaran its official 5.1 is here and no change whatsoever in our level 90 skills . fml.
Edited by Takius on 11/27/2012 10:56 AM PST
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
Well, we've had 2 days of testing so far and it's still awful and clunky.

Didn't bother with RoP because it's still a huge inconvenience to stay in one spot. The removal of the cooldown only alleviates a tiny bit of the penalty for poor placement, but it's still clunky as all hell and way too taxing for a small damage boost (when compared to the other two and their lack of restrictions) @Blizzard: SNIPER TRAINING WAS REMOVED FROM HUNTERS FOR A GOOD REASON. In addition, IT WASN'T FORCED ON ALL 3 SPECCS OF HUNTER!!!
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
*Sighs* I'm exploding Ghostcrawler's Twitter like mad, just asking for answers :(

I just want something, anything that would actually help, but it's not the short and vague comments we've been given. I want to hear an actual answer as to why these talents are here.
Edited by Pewpewblast on 11/29/2012 7:21 AM PST
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11/27/2012 10:55 AMPosted by Takius
well boys and girls of dalaran its official 5.1 is here and no change whatsoever in our level 90 skills . fml.

Of course just because the new patch came out doesn't mean we should stop.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/29/2012 07:21 AMPosted by Arbiter
well boys and girls of dalaran its official 5.1 is here and no change whatsoever in our level 90 skills . fml.

Of course just because the new patch came out doesn't mean we should stop.


I said I'd jump ship in 5.1. I'm now changing it to the next raiding tier.

If that comes out and I'm still using these talents, gg. Just GG!
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Well, we've had 2 days of testing so far and it's still awful and clunky.

Didn't bother with RoP because it's still a huge inconvenience to stay in one spot. The removal of the cooldown only alleviates a tiny bit of the penalty for poor placement, but it's still clunky as all hell and way too taxing for a small damage boost (when compared to the other two and their lack of restrictions) @Blizzard: SNIPER TRAINING WAS REMOVED FROM HUNTERS FOR A GOOD REASON. In addition, IT WASN'T FORCED ON ALL 3 SPECCS OF HUNTER!!!


I have been saying this all along.

There is no fixing RoP. Modern encounter design simply doesn't lend itself to it. Mages already have to stand still to hardcast and reach their highest possible damage. Adding RoP as a requirement to that is over the top.

Meanwhile, my lock should hit 90 this week.
Edited by Deerde on 11/29/2012 7:47 AM PST
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
Whelp, not only did these fail to get changed, but now Fire is unplayable.

Little to no point to playing a Mage now when I could be playing a hybrid for utility or a Warlock for mobility and DPS.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
6075
Whelp, not only did these fail to get changed, but now Fire is unplayable.

Little to no point to playing a Mage now when I could be playing a hybrid for utility or a Warlock for mobility and DPS.


It still isn't as bad as sunwell.
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1 Troll Rogue
0
Whelp, not only did these fail to get changed, but now Fire is unplayable.

Little to no point to playing a Mage now when I could be playing a hybrid for utility or a Warlock for mobility and DPS.


They could have fixed fire AND the clunkiness of Invocation at the same time.
Instead, we get kneejerk hotfixes that gut fire, and the clunkiness of invocation remains.

Pretty much, fail on all levels.
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90 Human Mage
6115
Hey, I just wanted to add that this was just announced. It's somewhat good news that they are at least looking at the talents, but we shouldn't get our hopes up for big changes to our L90 talents' QoL issues and fun factor. I honestly just hope they make them just a little better. Instant cast rune with larger radius? Longer duration and possibly more absorb on IW? Invocation..... movable channel with no mana regen penalty? I really hate invocation, so any change is welcome.

•Patch 5.2 will bring more talent changes than Patch 5.1, but they will mostly be number tweaks. Rogue talents were mentioned as something that needs to be looked at.

EDIT: Clicked submit too quickly
Edited by Thebigmike on 12/6/2012 6:29 AM PST
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