[Mage] Mobility and L90 Talents - 2

90 Draenei Mage
0
11/05/2012 05:41 PMPosted by Pewpewblast
Going on a limb, perhaps what he meant was that he didn't want the talent to redesign Evocate. They want it to be used to regenerate manas, not cast solely to keep up a buff.


Um... So why does Invocation exist then?


To make my life hell and make me hate my mage?
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
11/05/2012 05:15 PMPosted by Pewpewblast
They already acknowledged our frustration with the new talents by implementing the changes on the PTR. The fact that the invocation change was reverted only means they are still discussing how they want it to change.


Implementing changes? They didn't even TEST the Mana 100% change! Ghostcrawler pulled it before it ever got TESTED.


Why do you think it wasn't tested? Are you under the impression that the PTR is the only testing environment they have?
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90 Gnome Mage
8975
11/05/2012 07:20 PMPosted by Lhivera


Implementing changes? They didn't even TEST the Mana 100% change! Ghostcrawler pulled it before it ever got TESTED.


Why do you think it wasn't tested? Are you under the impression that the PTR is the only testing environment they have?


Yea.
It seems that they're really going to change it.

The change that got reverted is a proof of that.
They wouldn't even spend time testing that if they didn't intend to change.

I just really hope that the change comes in Patch 5.1.
I don't want to wait months before I can enjoy my class again.
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60 Undead Rogue
8075


Why do you think it wasn't tested? Are you under the impression that the PTR is the only testing environment they have?


Yea.
It seems that they're really going to change it.

The change that got reverted is a proof of that.
They wouldn't even spend time testing that if they didn't intend to change.

I just really hope that the change comes in Patch 5.1.
I don't want to wait months before I can enjoy my class again.


Remember sunwell?
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/05/2012 07:20 PMPosted by Lhivera


Implementing changes? They didn't even TEST the Mana 100% change! Ghostcrawler pulled it before it ever got TESTED.


Why do you think it wasn't tested? Are you under the impression that the PTR is the only testing environment they have?


I'm not referring to the "perfect world of the developers" testing.

If the DEVS never need to mana, that's not an issue.

If very few Mages never need to mana, then it has been tested and is an issue.

So yes, I am under the impression that the PTR is the only testing environment for people that are not affiliated with Blizzard.



Why do you think it wasn't tested? Are you under the impression that the PTR is the only testing environment they have?


Yea.
It seems that they're really going to change it.

The change that got reverted is a proof of that.
They wouldn't even spend time testing that if they didn't intend to change.

I just really hope that the change comes in Patch 5.1.
I don't want to wait months before I can enjoy my class again.


Oh it better come in 5.1...
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11/05/2012 07:20 PMPosted by Lhivera
Why do you think it wasn't tested? Are you under the impression that the PTR is the only testing environment they have?

Why do you think it was tested?
Are you under the impression that the Devs actually tested the Invocation change and stopped Evocating, as GC said they had?
Edited by Sattyn on 11/6/2012 3:46 AM PST
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90 Human Mage
IQ
8250
11/04/2012 09:47 PMPosted by Kolzi
There's been all this talk about it being "clunky" to use the recticle-targeted aoe from the water elemental in your rotation, why would this not appliy to RoP as well? At least make it something that isn't part of the patchwerk situation.


This would be the best change. Other than pre pull there is never a situation where casting two could amount to a dps increase, instead the opposite would occur. It should just land underneath the caster.
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100 Human Mage
14240
Why do you think it wasn't tested? Are you under the impression that the PTR is the only testing environment they have?

Why do you think it was tested?
Are you under the impression that the Devs actually tested the Invocation change and stopped Evocating, as GC said they had?

I have no proof of this and it's a very far off theory:
I wonder if they simmed it, but their sim doesn't have the debuff to mana regen implemented with invocation.
Edited by Mumrit on 11/6/2012 6:01 AM PST
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90 Gnome Mage
8975
I have no proof of this and it's a very far off theory:
I wonder if they simmed it, but their sim doesn't have the debuff to mana regen implemented with invocation.


Seems plausible.

To be honest, I don't understand how GC concluded that "mages might stop evocating ever" with the proposed changes.

Invocation talent reduces our mana regen a lot.
Mana gem has a huge CD and won't be able to keep us at 100% without evocating from time to time.

I really don't understand what we could do to avoid evocating during fights (with the proposed Invocation change).

Lack of communication. This is bad.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9220
So far, what i'm expecting is that the pulled the changes because there are working on a completly different approach. (praying for new talent)

and the less optimistic part of me just belives that they don't care at all.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
So far, what i'm expecting is that the pulled the changes because there are working on a completly different approach. (praying for new talent)

and the less optimistic part of me just belives that they don't care at all.


Somehow I highly doubt that.

I have no proof of this and it's a very far off theory:
I wonder if they simmed it, but their sim doesn't have the debuff to mana regen implemented with invocation.


Seems plausible.


Not really. The devs have done stupid/lazy stuff in the past, but this pretty much takes the cake. Simming also says all speccs of Mage are on top while Frost and Arcane (especially Arcane) definitely aren't the best. Fire, however, is, so believing everything the sims say leads to stupidity.

Without evocating every so often, I get mana starved pretty quickly.
Edited by Pewpewblast on 11/6/2012 7:57 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
9520
Day 6 and Raid night 1 as a shadow/disc priest. Holy crap is this what I've been missing? I can heal so much with zero effort, do great damage, and I don't have to deal with the absolute worst talents in this history of the game. My single target isn't quite as high as my mage (though neither is my gear score), but my utility and qol more than makes up for it. Also, leap of faith.

Like, we lost nothing as a raid losing my mage, and gained so much utility. Bliz completely missed the boat on the pures vs hybrids thing. It's no comparison: this is a better class to play pve.

Oh right, and I could fill in as the 3rd healer on some fights with absolutely zero issues. I dunno why people crap on disc, I was keeping up fine with better geared and better experienced healers.
Edited by Terrortician on 11/7/2012 10:58 AM PST
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90 Troll Mage
15205
so much cynicism in this thread...
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60 Undead Rogue
8075
New PTR changes. No changes regarding level 90 talents.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
Day 6 and Raid night 1 as a shadow/disc priest. Holy crap is this what I've been missing? I can heal so much with zero effort, do great damage, and I don't have to deal with the absolute worst talents in this history of the game. My single target isn't quite as high as my mage (though neither is my gear score), but my utility and qol more than makes up for it. Also, leap of faith.

Like, we lost nothing as a raid losing my mage, and gained so much utility. Bliz completely missed the boat on the pures vs hybrids thing. It's no comparison: this is a better class to play pve.

Oh right, and I could fill in as the 3rd healer on some fights with absolutely zero issues. I dunno why people crap on disc, I was keeping up fine with better geared and better experienced healers.


Yup. We have ZERO raid utility other than Time Warp, two buffs that a plethora of classes/speccs can bring (Shaman/Warlock for SP and Feral/Guardian Druid and... I forget what else for Crit), garbage L90 talents, and a lot less QoL than a ton of other speccs.

Also, new PTR build, nothing for us changed except a small buff to Arcane Charges... *sighs* and you guys wanted me to keep my faith.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/07/2012 10:59 AMPosted by Hiroran
so much cynicism in this thread...


I wouldn't really call it cynicism, more a plea for change.
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100 Draenei Mage
18170
Why do you think it wasn't tested? Are you under the impression that the PTR is the only testing environment they have?

Why do you think it was tested?
Are you under the impression that the Devs actually tested the Invocation change and stopped Evocating, as GC said they had?


^.

It's obvious they didn't test it. Ghostcrawler replied to one of my tweets about the proposed Invocation change. I asked him if he knew how much mana we consumed over a 2 minute period, and how much mana a gem charge restored. It was obvious he had no idea because his reply was that "mages weren't using evocation at all, they stay at 100% just with gem."

That is not reality in a raiding environment. That is not reality doing dailies. And that is not reality in 5 mans. It might be the reality in PVP (I don't really care), but a mana-cost increase to scorch would fix that in a hurry.

Invocation isn't as bad in a raid environment as it is doing dailies or five-man dungeons. Having to evocate constantly before every pull to perform to your own best is really pretty annoying. I would switch to another talent more often (as is Blizzard's intent I guess), if only I didn't have to reload my own UI up to FIVE times to avoid disabling addons with neglectful authors.
Edited by Ryegeleye on 11/8/2012 5:53 AM PST
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90 Undead Mage
8395
the lack of blue posts in any mage 90 tier discussion anywhere on the forums (there are tonnes now) is very disheartening
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100 Human Mage
14240
They kind of dance around the question in places.
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90 Pandaren Priest
9520
That's a very generous way of saying "haven't engaged the community in any way shape or form on the issue".
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