[Mage] Mobility and L90 Talents - 2

90 Night Elf Rogue
15325
The shield is great for mobility but only if you can break it. (Which is not hard to do but if for some reason there is NO incoming damage its harder.)

The rune should have no cast time and perhaps a longer CD to compensate.

The Evocation should be 4 seconds long or trigger upon reaching full mana.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
Well we're slowly closing in on 5.1 and still no words on this besides "Mages wouldn't Evocate" even without testing. *sighs*
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11/10/2012 12:34 PMPosted by Pewpewblast
Well we're slowly closing in on 5.1 and still no words on this besides "Mages wouldn't Evocate" even without testing. *sighs*

Maybe we'll get some more consideration before then.
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90 Human Rogue
9150
All 3 of the level 90 mage choices seem equally terrible overall, with each being more terrible for specific fights.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
10330
This is quite disappointing. There've been people speaking up about this ever since the beta. In the past few weeks, numerous thread have appeared expressing frustration with these talents. I've even seen posts from other classes dubbing mages as "no fun" because of their L90 talents.

In this thread and the previous, there have been many intelligent posts and anecdotes from actual players describing their issues with the talents. After all of these responses from the community, we did get a change... but it was quickly reverted. While it is nice to see some form of acknowledgement that the talents are poor, it'd be nice if they responded to mages, saying whether or not they like the talents, and if it is being looked into.

Until then, I'll be using Incanter's Ward, simply for the passive. As boring as a passive dmg increase is as a talent, it is much better than destroying my gameplay. I have, sadly, started playing my mage less this expansion due to the talents. Here's to hoping we get something for 5.1.
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90 Pandaren Mage
10520
11/10/2012 12:34 PMPosted by Pewpewblast
Well we're slowly closing in on 5.1 and still no words on this besides "Mages wouldn't Evocate" even without testing. *sighs*


Please stop whining, it's detracting from your thread. Also, internal testing is still testing, so stop spreading misinformation as well.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/11/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Nevva
Until then, I'll be using Incanter's Ward, simply for the passive. As boring as a passive dmg increase is as a talent, it is much better than destroying my gameplay. I have, sadly, started playing my mage less this expansion due to the talents. Here's to hoping we get something for 5.1.


Newest PTR build is a release candidate. Highly unlikely we'll be getting anything more than the RoP CD removal.

Well we're slowly closing in on 5.1 and still no words on this besides "Mages wouldn't Evocate" even without testing. *sighs*


Please stop whining, it's detracting from your thread. Also, internal testing is still testing, so stop spreading misinformation as well.


Well, the fact that we now have a release candidate without a single change except the removal of the cd on RoP (which won't change our choices even a smidge), so... call it whining if you will, but these abilities are still garbage.
Edited by Pewpewblast on 11/13/2012 12:38 AM PST
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90 Gnome Mage
8975
:(
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90 Pandaren Priest
9520
I really do think it's abandon ship time. 5.1 makes rep easier to get for alts. Get crackin' mages.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
10555
I had my expectations for this patch to bring some change. I'm not holding my breath anymore.

It's a shame that so many good ideas would go to waste (I'm talking about the numerous treads on this topic).

Now I just want to hear this issue discussed from a developer. I just want to know why they think the actual talents are a fine.
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100 Draenei Mage
18795
In terms of quality of life, if the rune of power could be cast on the move, that would be nice. Its very frustrating to place a rune, and then only have to abandon it because something bad got placed on it. If I could cast one as I'm running to my next safe area, life would be happier.
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100 Human Mage
14980
11/13/2012 09:26 AMPosted by Terrortician
I really do think it's abandon ship time. 5.1 makes rep easier to get for alts. Get crackin' mages.

I'm going to stick it out and keep complaining.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
11/13/2012 11:01 AMPosted by Evilzoidberg
In terms of quality of life, if the rune of power could be cast on the move, that would be nice. Its very frustrating to place a rune, and then only have to abandon it because something bad got placed on it. If I could cast one as I'm running to my next safe area, life would be happier.


Yeah, that'd fix RoP perfectly, but I still wouldn't use it over Invo and IW, especially as Fire since your DPS is mostly around timing good Combustions with trinkets and whatnot. An extra 10-15% damage is very helpful.
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90 Undead Mage
8395
i feel the release date for 5.1 is really soon and still no word for changes. guess were stuck with these crappy talents for a while. re rolling a rogue when 5.1 hits.
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11/13/2012 11:09 AMPosted by Mumrit
I really do think it's abandon ship time. 5.1 makes rep easier to get for alts. Get crackin' mages.

I'm going to stick it out and keep complaining.

I already rerolled and I'm still complaining. One day mages will be fun to play again, hopefully.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
Water Jet was just removed.

Hah. That's hilarious...

So we got literally nothing but a plethora of PvP nerfs, a buff to Blazing Speed that still makes it unusable (since we have to sacrifice IB/TS), and Combustion's damage calculation has been modified. Oh and a 2% buff to Arcane Charges which still won't make the specc viable and a cd removal from RoP that also still makes it useless on these fights.
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90 Human Mage
CFT
18870
The talents are fine and this thread is basically a giant firstworldproblems.txt. Mages are top tier in pretty much every aspect of the game. Woe is me, you have to Evo for 5 seconds before returning to do godly damage.

edit: the only change I would make is double tapping Rune of Power causes it to cast under you.


Top aspects (PvE only):

Fire does very high ST damage, as well as 2-3 cleave.
Frost has amazing short-term AoE. Also does good ST damage.

Anything else? No? Oh right, that's because that's all we have.

We have little to no long-term AoE, and as Fire/Arcane, we have crap for AoE. We bring ZERO raid utility outside of food/water/portals (has nothing to do with combat), Time Warp (shamans bring this too), and two VERY common buffs (Spellpower and Crit).

- Shadow Priests bring a raid-wide mana cooldown, raid-wide healing cooldown, off-heals if needed, a mechanic-soaker that doesn't require them to talent out of an awesome talent (Cauterize/G Invis), and a super-rare buff (Spell Haste; only brought by Hybrid spell DPS). In addition, they take less damage than us without the use of a global, making them save healer mana.

- Boomkins bring a single-target mana cooldown, raid-wide healing cooldown, off-heals if needed, Battle rez, gives Tranquility if Symbiosis is given to a Shadow Priest (so a second raid-wide healing cooldown), gets Mass Dispel if Symbiosis is given to a Priest, and a super-rare buff (Spell Haste; only brought by Hybrid spell DPS). In addition, they take less damage than us without the use of a global, making them save healer mana.

- Elemental Shamans bring a raid-wide healing cooldown of their choice (Tier 5 talents), Bloodlust/Heroism (to our Time Warp), and a super-rare buff (Spell Haste; only brought by Hybrid spell DPS). (Okay so Ele doesn't bring much, but they have tons of Mobility at least. They do need some work though).

- Warlocks bring healthstones ("raid-wide" healing), an awesome ability for movement that can completely break some fight mechanics (Demonic Gateway), Battle rez/pre-emptive rez, get lots of self heals (so they require less healing, saving healer mana), and Affliction also has crazy single-target damage too. Not to mention they bring the Spell Vulnerability debuff, which is fairly uncommon compared to our super-common buffs.

On top of this, all the above speccs have better mobility than us; Warlocks and Elemental shamans having crazy higher mobility, while boomkins and Spriests having just better mobility. In addition, they all have a movement speed increase of some sort (Shamans and Druids can shapeshift, Spriests have their T2 talent + Mind Flay glyph, and Warlocks have Burning Rush if they choose it). Furthermore, ALL the above classes have better AoE of some sort (with the exception of being against Frost with it's short term burst)

I don't understand why we have to be so clunky when we already bring zero utility besides damage. Damage isn't the cure-all to every fight, so why are we the only ones being heavily restricted? (Elemental shamans too, but they're a whole nother story)
Edited by Pewpewblast on 11/14/2012 1:50 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
9520
It is a simple fact that mages bring less to a raid than pretty much every class.

Last night on elegon my raid's mage was evocating on the P2 transition where adds are spawned. 2 Seconds in to his evocate, the aoe spell that one-shots you spawns under him. I felt so bad for him. Here I was using cascade in shadowform to heal the whole raid while on the move, bubbling people to give them speed increases, sticking sw:p on the adds, to keep my on-the-move dps high, and there he was, caught between a rock and a hard place. Does he keep evocating and risk dying or skip it just to waste more time when when it's time to burn the boss hard? It was a sad sight - me doing so much while running, him doing so little while standing still. And he wasn't even beating me on the meters, in spite of being a more than competent player with a strong dps spec.

And then I watched him finish his evocate, and immediately used leap of faith to get him out. Because really, that mage needed my help.
Edited by Terrortician on 11/14/2012 3:10 PM PST
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90 Gnome Mage
12045
11/14/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Pewpewblast
Anything else? No? Oh right, that's because that's all we have.


Nobody wants my food table anymore either :(
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