Blood DK tanks Dual Weilding?

100 Gnome Rogue
9440
To those having the argument about the world "viable": among the mmorpg community certain assumptions are made about liberties within the English language. Terms are used often outside the literal meaning and take on an almost "slang" meaning.

In the raiding community, ie anyone who is decent enough to care, the word viable means it performs at the highest level or close enough so as not to matter. In DPS terms that would mean the ability between specs to do roughly equal damage or bring utility in place of a small dps loss. In the case of DW blood tanking you get no utility and a serious drop in dps due to the structure of the blood spec. Therefore, regardless of your ability to do it and kill bosses I is NOT viable. In the world of mmorpg suboptimal = not viable.

Just because I can come as blood dps to a raid and kill bosses doesn't mean I should, dps should obviously be frost. "offtank" as dps died in vanilla with 40m raiding. Trying to argue a less than ideal play style is viable is stupid and is why good players laugh at noobs. A DW blood DK app would get denied by any decent guild straight out of hand, again, not viable.
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
8315
Is there possibly a plan for blizz to implement something to allow for DW in the future? It's very frustrating looking at all the 1h hit/mastery/exp weapons that i'm never allowed to use :(

Also mad that Blizz categorized these 1h into the blood loot table...
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8920
they have said they have no plans to ever include DW tanking support into the game, and that they intend blood to be a 2h spec for the foreseeable future.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
6455
you can blood dualwield tank if you want,i was able to do it for half of my mop heroics and all through cata. though the pros and cons are right here

pros of dualwield:
more aggro
more runic(best to go for conversion with this to make up for low survivalbility)
more stacks of that buff that makes your deathstrike heal more

cons:
less dps
rune wep cd not as strong
less survivability with?
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8920
pros of dualwield:
more aggro
more runic(best to go for conversion with this to make up for low survivalbility)
more stacks of that buff that makes your deathstrike heal more

You do less aggro with DW, not more. SoB isn't guaranteed with DW, so points #2 and #3 are also wrong.

cons:
less dps
rune wep cd not as strong
less survivability with?

The first point is very true. You do much less dps with DW.
the 2nd point is only true from a perspective that makes this point redundant with the last one.
the third point doesn't exactly make sense.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
6455
pros of dualwield:
more aggro
more runic(best to go for conversion with this to make up for low survivalbility)
more stacks of that buff that makes your deathstrike heal more

You do less aggro with DW, not more. SoB isn't guaranteed with DW, so points #2 and #3 are also wrong.

cons:
less dps
rune wep cd not as strong
less survivability with?

The first point is very true. You do much less dps with DW.
the 2nd point is only true from a perspective that makes this point redundant with the last one.
the third point doesn't exactly make sense.


i've dualwield,i always have atleast 40% more aggro on adds and bosses im fighting.
when i also dualwield the amount of runic i get during the fight is just insane that i can keep conversion up 24/7 with out any problem. my SoB stacks up alot faster when i dualwield.
runewep does infact still come out,the only diff is that its only a 1h sword and not a 2h.

sir,i've made a tthread about this before with a similar person just like you who tried to prove me wrong,i toke him into a dungeon and he learned somethings new.
Edited by Symphogear on 11/6/2012 5:33 AM PST
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100 Human Death Knight
12060

You do less aggro with DW, not more. SoB isn't guaranteed with DW, so points #2 and #3 are also wrong.


The first point is very true. You do much less dps with DW.
the 2nd point is only true from a perspective that makes this point redundant with the last one.
the third point doesn't exactly make sense.


i've dualwield,i always have atleast 40% more aggro on adds and bosses im fighting.
when i also dualwield the amount of runic i get during the fight is just insane that i can keep conversion up 24/7 with out any problem. my SoB stacks up alot faster when i dualwield.
runewep does infact still come out,the only diff is that its only a 1h sword and not a 2h.

sir,i've made a tthread about this before with a similar person just like you who tried to prove me wrong,i toke him into a dungeon and he learned somethings new.


I can't decide which part of this is the most ridiculous.

How can you possibly have more threat while doing less damage?

Also your claim of faster Scent of Blood stacks is just not true since SoB proc rate is normalized with weapon speed and ignores offhand attacks. So you're not generating any more RP than 2H either.

Basically, you're wrong. Good day, sir.
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100 Human Death Knight
11370
If tanks are pulling the higher dps numbers then that means we are carrying the dps.
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90 Human Death Knight
13075
How can you possibly have more threat while doing less damage?

“We’ve gotten over the concept that threat needs to be a major part of PvE gameplay,”
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100 Human Death Knight
12060
11/06/2012 07:08 AMPosted by Babelon
How can you possibly have more threat while doing less damage?

“We’ve gotten over the concept that threat needs to be a major part of PvE gameplay,”


What relevance does that have to my question? I'm well aware that threat is not really a major concern in most situations, I just simply don't understand how one can acknowledge that they do less damage and yet more threat as DW.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8920
What deathquoi is getting at (and rightly so) is that threat is based off the damage you do. Less damage = less threat, simple as that. Saying you do less dmg but more threat is simply impossible in the current form of DK tanks and the abilities available to us.
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89 Human Death Knight
3085
i was just thinking about this topic and wondered (prove me wrong if i am wrong) but with DW wouldnt it give you more survivability considering that all 2 handers have DPS specs but there are 1 handers designed for tanks, so dual weilding tank weps would increase you survivabilty (which i beleive to be the strongest weakness of a dk as they cannot use a sheild and therefore loose alot of armour), then in the way of threat: 1. in blood presence you generate double threat by default and 2. blood boil does mega damage and geuss what it doesnt scale off your weapon damage mix theese 2 together and you can almost garrentee never loosing threat that fight. i maybe wrong and if i am please explain the faults with my theory :)
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
12905
11/11/2012 10:08 PMPosted by Icelord
i was just thinking about this topic and wondered (prove me wrong if i am wrong) but with DW wouldnt it give you more survivability considering that all 2 handers have DPS specs but there are 1 handers designed for tanks, so dual weilding tank weps would increase you survivabilty (which i beleive to be the strongest weakness of a dk as they cannot use a sheild and therefore loose alot of armour), then in the way of threat: 1. in blood presence you generate double threat by default and 2. blood boil does mega damage and geuss what it doesnt scale off your weapon damage mix theese 2 together and you can almost garrentee never loosing threat that fight. i maybe wrong and if i am please explain the faults with my theory :)

tank stats namely dodge/parry are subject to DR. mitigation gained for using 2 "tank weapons" instead of a 2hander if there is any gain is completley unnoticeable. literally if you were to compare near = ilvl sets of weapons a 2h and 2 1 handers the mitigational stat gain is so marginal you cant really argue that they are worth cutting your damage output for it.

2h weapons also have more raw stats than one handers so with reforging + rune enchants any 2h weapon with mastery on it can effectively be a tank weapon.

threat hasnt been an issue for a long time. blood boils damage difference between 2h and dual wielding is irelevant to this matter.
Edited by Kusari on 11/11/2012 10:17 PM PST
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89 Human Death Knight
3085
what if your 2 one handers had varying stats, Eg main hand = parry and hit and off = Dodge and mastery, because neither weapons has the same stats DR would not apply in reguards to weaps and only you armour would effect (which would be there in either senario anyways)

i am also led to beleive that there is a not so obvious way to tank as a DW as one of the runes you can runeforge id rune of nerubian carapace which is a tank buff that only works on one handers, proberbly nobody uses this one though.
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
12905
what if your 2 one handers had varying stats, Eg main hand = parry and hit and off = Dodge and mastery, because neither weapons has the same stats DR would not apply in reguards to weaps and only you armour would effect (which would be there in either senario anyways)

i am also led to beleive that there is a not so obvious way to tank as a DW as one of the runes you can runeforge id rune of nerubian carapace which is a tank buff that only works on one handers, proberbly nobody uses this one though.

your misunderstanding how DR works. the more you have of parry or dodge the more you are going to need of that stat to get the same effect from it.

in terms of gaining mitigation the contribution from one handed "tank" weapons is so trivially small that you are never going to notice it over the course of a fight and once again this is not worth gimping your damage output.

as for runing your weapon. nerubian carapace is the one handed weapon version of stoneskin gargoyle chant for 2 handers. in terms of raw mitigation sword shattering or the 1 handed coefficient to it are better. stoneskin gargoyles only value as a dk tank is if the extra hp that it offers gives you the effective health needed to survive a boss that hits especially hard.
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89 Human Death Knight
3085
your misunderstanding how DR works. the more you have of parry or dodge the more you are going to need of that stat to get the same effect from it.


as i said above use weapons with DIFFERENT stats in order to avoid DR so AKA one has parry the other doesnt while one has dodge the other dosent as DR affects to stats of the SAME, i think my understanding isnt and issue here, maybe my knowlege of wow, but i understand DR now.
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90 Tauren Death Knight
8920
after reforging they are going to be hit just as hard with DR as a 2h with 2x as much but in one stat (provided you can reforge enough into the other to make them balanced)
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100 Human Death Knight
12060
11/11/2012 10:08 PMPosted by Icelord
i was just thinking about this topic and wondered (prove me wrong if i am wrong) but with DW wouldnt it give you more survivability considering that all 2 handers have DPS specs but there are 1 handers designed for tanks, so dual weilding tank weps would increase you survivabilty (which i beleive to be the strongest weakness of a dk as they cannot use a sheild and therefore loose alot of armour), then in the way of threat: 1. in blood presence you generate double threat by default and 2. blood boil does mega damage and geuss what it doesnt scale off your weapon damage mix theese 2 together and you can almost garrentee never loosing threat that fight. i maybe wrong and if i am please explain the faults with my theory :)


Everything. Everything is a fault with your theory. DKs don't have a survivability issue, Blood Presence is their shield. Blood Boil doesn't do mega damage at 90. Using weapons with different stats won't help you avoid DR. The fact that runeforges exist for a particular purpose is not evidence that you should do it. There's also Lichbane, but nobody uses that either.
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89 Human Death Knight
3085
Everything. Everything is a fault with your theory. DKs don't have a survivability issue, Blood Presence is their shield. Blood Boil doesn't do mega damage at 90. Using weapons with different stats won't help you avoid DR. The fact that runeforges exist for a particular purpose is not evidence that you should do it. There's also Lichbane, but nobody uses that either.


1. if death knights dont have a survivability issue then why have a seen none of them do any good at surviving, is that only in BC dungeons that they die alot, because that seems a bit illogical that it would only affect a small level range

2. considering that DR is a thing that makes multiple of the SAME stat have less effect, then logicaly spreding various stats out evenly would make the penalty less. and yes i have been to the wiki and read up what DR means so dont give me that crap

3. yes, just because something is there doesnt mean you should do it, but it represents that you CAN do it, so why would it exist if their was no possibility of it

when you reply please use resourses to back yourself up, i dont mind being proven wrong, but not just being told without reason or logical explaination.
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