Sick of Blizz Lies about hearing feedback

90 Draenei Shaman
9515
We tried. Best attempt was 13% before they enraged.

I'll obviously get more gear from LFR than dailies because I'm not doing any dailies. My point is -- there's a doughnut hole of players who don't have the personal schedule that permits a daily-friendly lifestyle and who aren't in the highest quality raiding structure. I can't pug an MSV because the general population has more time than me so they did the dailies. So, I'm stuck. And there's no way for me to solve the problem on my own because the single method of deterministic PvE character progression at level 90 is entirely incompatible with my lifestyle.

So Warcraft's evolution into a daily-focused game means I probably should move on. Thus when my annual pass expires I will do so, unless Blizzard can deliver a real solution in production before that date. No promises or words either. I'll need an actual solution that fits my needs live before my AP expiration date. The last time I listened to Blizzard, it turns out their definitions and perceptions of reality were different than mine. In this case, it's not a who's right and who's wrong thing, but just an acceptance of the fact that their version of reality is not the same as mine, so I need to see actual results rather than read posts and promises.


it will take a little longer but there is not much that can be done to help you progress then to wait for loot of for a nerf, i really doubt there will be any major changes to the way things work right now at least till a patch after 5.1 hits, and to be honest, what difference it will make other then alts to have ilvl 489 by then? even you wont need this gear when that time comes.. unless you just stop now and wait without playing then yes maybe you will need those pieces but then i dont think there will be the same requirements for pugs anymore.
But there is a solution, and as we saw in September, it can be hotfixed into the game very quickly and easily -- remove the rep requirement from Valor gear. To go back to my first post in the thread -- what are we missing? What catastrophic problems does that cause that we are just not seeing? Because at this point, Blizzard is currently in a virtual war with their customers to prevent its implementation.

Explain to us -- what happens when rep is stripped off Valor items? Why is it so bad?
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90 Pandaren Monk
7255
Yeah, if you can find me a raid group that is taking 463s into MSV, please let me know.

They sure as hell don't exist on my realm.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9515
We tried. Best attempt was 13% before they enraged.

I'll obviously get more gear from LFR than dailies because I'm not doing any dailies. My point is -- there's a doughnut hole of players who don't have the personal schedule that permits a daily-friendly lifestyle and who aren't in the highest quality raiding structure. I can't pug an MSV because the general population has more time than me so they did the dailies. So, I'm stuck. And there's no way for me to solve the problem on my own because the single method of deterministic PvE character progression at level 90 is entirely incompatible with my lifestyle.

So Warcraft's evolution into a daily-focused game means I probably should move on. Thus when my annual pass expires I will do so, unless Blizzard can deliver a real solution in production before that date. No promises or words either. I'll need an actual solution that fits my needs live before my AP expiration date. The last time I listened to Blizzard, it turns out their definitions and perceptions of reality were different than mine. In this case, it's not a who's right and who's wrong thing, but just an acceptance of the fact that their version of reality is not the same as mine, so I need to see actual results rather than read posts and promises.


Sounds like time will solve your problems. In time you'll get more LFR drops, more Sha drops, more valor and more rept. Meanwhile, MSV pugs will become more and more successful and you should be able to find one that works for you.

If you have less time to play, I think it's reasonable that you also progress at a slower pace and dailies are hardly the hindrance here. If you valor cap every week, you can still only get VP gear every two weeks. If you don't cap, which is normal if you have limited time, that gear progression goes even slower, further reducing the need for dailies.
Cap Valor? How or why would I ever even attempt to cap these Silver Points? (I can only use 1250 Valor to buy a neck I can vendor for 1650 silver. So Valor is really basically silver pieces if you don't do dailies.)

About PUGs, perhaps you are unaware that there is competition for spots in PUGs and the measuring sticks are gear and achieves. So if your sole method of deterministic gear is through dailies, then daily-less people have to rely entirely upon RNG in MSV. And you can't get achieves without gear, so dailies are the roadblock.

If they set my weekly Valor cap to 200 but removed rep from Valor, I would be motivated to continue playing. I just don't think many people truly grasp what it's like to be stuck behind this daily fortress and unable to really do anything about it.

But hey, maybe Blizzard is no longer even trying to retain people like me. Perhaps they've moved on. It's depressing to think that, but all of the evidence seems to point to that.
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90 Blood Elf Monk
15315
11/13/2012 12:04 PMPosted by Seebach


No! Bad! Stop pointing to data-mined content as fact. The change that got picked up was actually an adjustment to Darkmoon Card trinkets for Challenge Mode stat scaling.


That's fairly rude and unbecoming of someone who is in the position you are in, Dax.

Treating people like an animal by saying, "No! Bad!" and then rubbing their nose in it for jumping the gun is definately not what you should have done. Rather, you should have POLITELY STATED the incorrectness of it and moved on.

In this case, both parties here made an error in judgment. Shame to both of you.


Shut up and stop taking offense where none was intended.
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85 Goblin Mage
5965
Simply because a thread contains feedback doesn't mean that it abides by our posting guidelines or code of conduct. Constructive feedback should probably be the buzzword, rather than feedback on its own.

We welcome it, we want to read it, and we want to share it with the development teams. You still need to play by the rules while you're here, if you want to be heard.


I think the community management team here at Bliz does an awesome job, despite a few people with ugly attitudes. I spent some time at SWTOR earlier in the year and their community managers are totally inept by comparison. Keep up the good work! :)
Edited by Glowrod on 11/13/2012 2:36 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
10490
Personally I think Brawlers Guild sounds fine. I also think if we were playing any other game out there we wouldn't even have a say. Where some people get the idea that their opinion should be adhered to and the game should be changed is beyond me. In my opinion Blizzard should listen less to players on these forums.

Things have been changed due to player opinion in the past. Some good, some bad but either way keep up the good work Blizz, but please don't let forum goers dictate how the game evolves too much.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
We tried. Best attempt was 13% before they enraged.

I'll obviously get more gear from LFR than dailies because I'm not doing any dailies. My point is -- there's a doughnut hole of players who don't have the personal schedule that permits a daily-friendly lifestyle and who aren't in the highest quality raiding structure. I can't pug an MSV because the general population has more time than me so they did the dailies. So, I'm stuck. And there's no way for me to solve the problem on my own because the single method of deterministic PvE character progression at level 90 is entirely incompatible with my lifestyle.

So Warcraft's evolution into a daily-focused game means I probably should move on. Thus when my annual pass expires I will do so, unless Blizzard can deliver a real solution in production before that date. No promises or words either. I'll need an actual solution that fits my needs live before my AP expiration date. The last time I listened to Blizzard, it turns out their definitions and perceptions of reality were different than mine. In this case, it's not a who's right and who's wrong thing, but just an acceptance of the fact that their version of reality is not the same as mine, so I need to see actual results rather than read posts and promises.


Your problem isn't dailies. You DO have other avenues to progress that don't involve dailies. Primarily, Raid Finder. It's built for your situation. AH is another option.

You're at the gear level where you are ready to do raids. My team hasn't exactly been tearing it up on MSV, but we had ilevels at or lower than you on our first kills.
But if you just keep running Raid Finder, you'll get 6 shots a week at loot (plus bonus rolls), and in a just a few more item levels you'll get 16 shots a week. And that includes Raid Finder drops at item level 483. Unless your entire raid team is the unluckiest group alive (and NONE of you grind dailies), you'll progress just fine.

Have a little more patience. If you and your team keep at Raid Finder, you'll quickly push past 13% wipes and start downing normal bosses. In 5.1, you can start spending your Valor on upgrading your gear. And in a few weeks, you'll be laughing at how serious everyone took the Rep gear. As someone else mentioned, your play style just means it's going to take a few weeks longer than others. No big deal.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
Cap Valor? How or why would I ever even attempt to cap these Silver Points? (I can only use 1250 Valor to buy a neck I can vendor for 1650 silver. So Valor is really basically silver pieces if you don't do dailies.)

...

But hey, maybe Blizzard is no longer even trying to retain people like me. Perhaps they've moved on. It's depressing to think that, but all of the evidence seems to point to that.


You're being overly dramatic. It doesn't help your argument.
In patch 5.1 (already a Release Candidate), you'll be able to upgrade the item level on your existing gear with Valor, giving you yet another reason you won't need to do dailies for reputation.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
13995
The current dailies might feel that mandatory to some particularly progression focused players, but it is entirely possible to skip them, and the gear they provide, pretty much entirely and still arrive at the same level of character potency.


far slower than you should though, and in cases such as mine letting 24 other people down. how is that fair?
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90 Orc Shaman
13750
Threads like this remind me of why I usually stay away from General Discussion.

Look. Just because they don't do what you want doesn't mean they don't listen to feedback.
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90 Draenei Shaman
9515
Pitch -- you don't get it either. What bonus rolls? I'm not doing dailies!!!

I understand how RNG works. Trust me. I know what my expected gear acquisition is over time. In fact, I can calculate with scary accuracy the probability that I will not qualify for HOF before my account expires. It should be a frightening thought to the Blizzard design team that people are even calculating that.

I'll ask the key question again -- what catastrophic event is set to occur if rep requirements are removed from Valor gear? What are we missing?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10545

Your problem isn't dailies. You DO have other avenues to progress that don't involve dailies. Primarily, Raid Finder. It's built for your situation. AH is another option.


Still doesn't explain why the VP gear has to be locked behind reputation (dailies rep grind) when that wasnt the case in Cata and Wrath, and to some extent, BC and its badge gear.

Yeah, every faction in BC, Wrath and Cata had some gear available for you that you needed to unlock with reputation -- and it was gear purchased with gold.

But also, every expansion had badge/points vendors that did not require you to be revered with a given faction in order to sell you the gear.

Ge'ras and his Gnomeragan Auto-Blocker is an example from BC, or all the different vendors in Wrath... and the Valor Point vendor in Org/Sw....
Edited by Klaudandus on 11/13/2012 2:53 PM PST
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Cross realm zoning was added why? Because the world outside of sw and org were virtually dead during cata... Last expansion how many threads were made about world pvp dying? Blizzard attempts to fix it, it isn't what i want it to be /cry

Brawler's guild, I won't speak about something I know nothing about

Dailies, they are not required, for the love of god stop crying about this. World of warcraft has always had prizes for the people willing to work for them through dailies. This is just another case of I want this and i don't want to do what is being asked to acquire it.

The gear, if you do not want to do dailies then the valor gear you can buy from the quartermasters, it's not for you. You can do scenarios and heroics for ilvl 463 gear, get your free boots from Sha of anger, we've had brewfest and hallow's end which gave you the chance at some epics. Then you can raid and do lfr.

The enchants/recipes they are a reward for the grind.

They did not make dungeons useless as you will use the vp to upgrade gear in the future so as long as their is new raiding gear there will be reasons to continue to grind out vp

All these dailies have done is give rewards to people who leave the cities everyday, your anger and examples only show that you want to be rewarded with everything the game has to offer with little to know appreciation for the game itself.

Blizzard has continually listened to playerbase and that's why the last 3 expansions have been so different. Here is an evolution of world of warcraft, the trial and error and an example of how they've listened to the playerbase....

The big complaint in bc is it was too grindy (it was) but that was the complaint, so in wrath it was fixed, in bc there was never any bag space because all your tokens and mounts and just about everything else took up bag space, in wrath blizzard got rid of pvp tokens, added a currency tab, added a mount tab. Blizzard introduced a tabard for rep system, a lfg system, a pvp queue system that didn't require you too queue up at a battlemaster and also added a world pvp zone in wintergrasp. Burning crusade was too "hard", so blizzard made wrath "easier" more casual friendly... These forums and tradechat whine about how easy wrath is and gear score, there is a huge debate here about how smart and how stupid gear score is...

Cata comes out, blizzard completely changes the old world of azeroth and blizzard adds arch as a timesink. Tol barad is added to be a more intense version of Wintergrasp. Flying is now available. Not a whole lot of people enjoy arch and people find themselves spending more and more time in org and sw. There are long queue times for dungeons and there is a huge uproar about the difficulty so within the first two months of the release the heroic dungeons are nerfed. Shortly after The raid encounters are nerfed. People are dinging 85 too quickly and find themselves with nothing too do. Blizzard attempts a bandaid fix with a 5 man version of ZG and ZA. Anger ensues. Firelands is made available with a whole new daily grind.... this is starting to get alot longer than i intended so im going to stop here and move onto Mop and what its done.

Blizzard heard the masses during the course of cata's life and learned from it. They added interesting items that do stupid things, added cutscenes throughout the questing process to give a life to the questing process. They added decent prizes and finality to quest lines and left others open for further exploration. Where cata failed in keeping you interested, mop prevails. The daily questing that is broken up by an interesting furthering quest to give reasoning to your continued grind. Added scenarios, a rare grind, all kinds of items all over pandaria too keep you searching as you quest. If you dont think blizzard doesn't listen to feedback then just think about your own personal experience of hitting 85 in cata and hitting 90 in mop. If you don't like the way the looting system is now in Mop blame every single person that rolled on gear they didn't need for trade or those that brought friends/guild members to roll on extra chances at gear.

TL:DR. Blizzard has listened, and made changes accordingly. Mop is so much better than Cata in every aspect. Dailies aren't required stop crying entitlement doesn't look good on anyone. Heroics, scenarios then raids will gear you past daily gear. If you want recipes/enchants do the dailies, if you dont want to, then you just have to wait and pay me for those recipes/enchants.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8645
11/13/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Zargar
Not really. They're different things. The enchantments were absolutely, without-question mandatory


I could have killed DW without shoulder and head enhants so your full of it.


Your guild wouldn't have recruited you without shoulder and head enchants. It was a requirement at every single high end guild I ever played with, and rightly so; what kind of player doesn't want every single boost they can possibly get? If you can't be bothered to do dailies/rep to get those enchants, they can't be bothered to let you raid.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10545
I think most people are mislabeling the problem.

The problem is not the dailies -- the problem is that DAILIES ARE THE ONLY SOURCE OF REPUTATION.

There would be no complaints if the following happened

-- Valor Point gear requires no reputation in order to be purchased
or
-- An alternate way to acquire reputation.
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50 Gnome Warlock
765
11/13/2012 01:41 PMPosted by Anrazio
whoever feels the NEED (need is somthing u need to do like eat - sleep - breath) who ever feels the NEED to do dailys - id reccomend either the bar or a hospital. take ur pick


By the definition of "need" and "required" often cited on the forums as a reason for why no change should ever be made for the QOL of the players, you don't "need" to eat, drink, sleep, or breath either.
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