Sick of Blizz Lies about hearing feedback

90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9155
Blizzard are listening, but they fell victim to the small, vocal community of BC lovers, who want BC back at any cost, and they did it TWICE.

-They tried to bring back the BC dungeons with CC and all and lost so many Wrath fans that they quickly changed back to the Wrath style of doing things.

-They are now trying to bring back the BC daily questing model, and again are faced with insane discontent from the masses, who are typically silent and let you know what they think with their wallets.

Blizzard had to make a decision in Wrath, which they keep postponing, hoping to dodge the problem if they bury their heads deep enough in the sand, and if it doesn't go away, their heads are simply not buried deep enough.

The problem is simple - do they want to appeal to the nerds and people with no lives from BC, or do they want to appeal to the masses who have friends, jobs, schools, families, kids, come from different ages and backgrounds and are way more complex and diverse than the old school gamers and pros, who are looking for a simple time sink to waste all that time they have in abundance because they have nothing to do once they come home.

You can't cater to both at once. What people from the first type love, the people from the other type abhor.

Trying it is like baking ice - pointless and doomed to fail.
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90 Human Priest
16470
11/13/2012 12:03 PMPosted by Daxxarri
I mean, is any tangible, useful reward we provide--regardless of venue--going to seem to be anything less than absolutely mandatory to such a player, unless it is purely cosmetic?


Yes.

It's called a 'completionist.' It's a gaming term, look it up.

And even then, the average gamer is going to get turned off by a statement of "We're sorry, you can't have that until you perform 500 hours of X"

It's one thing if there's different ways to get the same thing. The various different ways you have of getting valor, for instance, is GOOD. You can do dailies, you can do scenarios, you can raid, you can do heroics.

How do you get rep rewards? Only one way. Do dailies. And if you don't find dailies fun? There is no other fun way to get those rewards. Period. It's dailies or you don't get them.

Therefore the dailies are mandatory if you want the rewards. And especially with valor purchases being tied to rep, what's the point of valor if you can't buy what you want because you don't have the rep for it yet?

This is where the system breaks down. Dailies aren't fun. The game is supposed to be fun. Dailies aren't fun. Earning things should be fun. Dailies aren't fun. Time-consuming isn't fun. Dailies aren't fun. Grinding isn't fun. Dailies aren't fun.

Oh, and by the way, dailies aren't fun.

As I've said in other posts, I myself love questing. The first time I do a daily, it's a quest, and it's awesome. The second time I do a daily, I'm bored, I'm done with it. I already did that, having to do it again, and again, and again, and again, and again, every single day... Yeah, I'm done with that.

It also really doesn't feel like you've accomplished anything if the very next day you have to help the npc's again.

You're fighting against the nature of MMO's here, but this is one of those things that clearly shows the design decision of WoW is to waste your time so you keep paying monthly fees because it takes you months to get all the things you want. This seems the priority versus making a game that's so fun you lose track of time and play it for months because it stays fun.

Dailies aren't fun. Consider a new design. I'm not suggesting dungeon running with tabards, I understand you want a separate system. Dailies isn't it. Not this amount of dailies.

I would suggest more like weekly quests, that do not repeat, but you can only do X amount of quests per week. So you never do the same thing twice, but it scales you back from finishing it all in a day. Phasing can be used so you feel like you've accomplished something (sort of like Molten Front or the Sunwell.) When you've completed all the quests available you earn all the rewards available.

Biggest thing is always something new and interesting to do instead of always something you've already done 70 times that you have to do again to make progress towards your goals. See the difference?

Dailies aren't fun. Stop making us grind them.
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90 Orc Mage
12875
Simply because a thread contains feedback doesn't mean that it abides by our posting guidelines or code of conduct. Constructive feedback should probably be the buzzword, rather than feedback on its own.

We welcome it, we want to read it, and we want to share it with the development teams. You still need to play by the rules while you're here, if you want to be heard.


I think the community management team here at Bliz does an awesome job, despite a few people with ugly attitudes. I spent some time at SWTOR earlier in the year and their community managers are totally inept by comparison. Keep up the good work! :)


Agreed. But some people that post on these forums are just looking for a fight or are way too sensitive. I think the CM's have been spot on in their responses. I've been very critical of Blizz in the past, specifically with Cata and Wrath, but MoP has been great so far. People just need to relax about not getting their way minutes after they make a post.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17035
11/13/2012 09:37 AMPosted by Librily
1) CRZ - has there been any changes to this other than the correction of bugs? Has anything been more screamed about? I am yet to see anything to really make CRZ more enjoyable for players. and then's there's the who 2-passenger fiasco. Where it went from unknown bug, known bug, to actually being an intended part of CRZ.

Not sure if this has been addressed already, but regarding the bug -> intended aspect, the bug was that the driver would disappear for the passenger upon crossing a zone line, the receiving server would then see the passenger alone in the air, and the player would then fall, usually to their death. The intended change is to eject the passenger instead. It's a workaround because fixing multi-passenger mounts and crossing servers is a complicated, technical act limited by the coding of CRZ and how servers handle that.

I'm sure in a perfect world they intend for multi-passenger mounts to behave the same before CRZ as after it.
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90 Troll Mage
13400
11/13/2012 09:42 AMPosted by Temnozar
except for some minor bugs CRZ is fine and you don't have to do dailies


Until they add a much better option to grind rep other than dailies yes you have to do them..... not for the valor gear but for the profession recipes that they decided to put behind the reps.
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90 Worgen Death Knight
6045


Ok, how about Transmogrification as someone stated earlier in the thread? People for years were wanting a way to change the look of their gear to older sets, matching sets. Well, it took them a while (in part b/c they wanted to do it a certain way), but hey look at this fancy feature we got last expansion!


Yeah, let's talk about transmog. All the restrictions, all the complaints, all the problems.

Let's talk about how blizz has dealt with transmog feedback.


I. Want. My. Flipping. Tophat.

11/14/2012 08:28 AMPosted by Ashani
except for some minor bugs CRZ is fine and you don't have to do dailies


Until they add a much better option to grind rep other than dailies yes you have to do them..... not for the valor gear but for the profession recipes that they decided to put behind the reps.


You could get an enchanter to enchant you, or buy the recipes/item on the AH.

Stilllll not neccesary.
Edited by Mauden on 11/14/2012 8:30 AM PST
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85 Human Rogue
4950
11/13/2012 10:38 AMPosted by Librily
In other words, I've yet to see any player suggestions implemented, and more continued defence along with this token line of "we're listening"


Well I believe Appearance Tab was a direct response to overwhelming player requests so they do listen. Or meet us halfway and give us Transmog ;D
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90 Night Elf Druid
11185
11/13/2012 12:04 PMPosted by Seebach
definately


*Definitely.

I love when people make posts acting like they know better than the employees of the company, and that they know more, then have the blues smack 'em around. It's quite enjoyable.
Edited by Dathrel on 11/14/2012 8:41 AM PST
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90 Undead Priest
0
Blizzard are listening, but they fell victim to the small, vocal community of BC lovers, who want BC back at any cost, and they did it TWICE.

-They tried to bring back the BC dungeons with CC and all and lost so many Wrath fans that they quickly changed back to the Wrath style of doing things.

-They are now trying to bring back the BC daily questing model, and again are faced with insane discontent from the masses, who are typically silent and let you know what they think with their wallets.

Blizzard had to make a decision in Wrath, which they keep postponing, hoping to dodge the problem if they bury their heads deep enough in the sand, and if it doesn't go away, their heads are simply not buried deep enough.

The problem is simple - do they want to appeal to the nerds and people with no lives from BC, or do they want to appeal to the masses who have friends, jobs, schools, families, kids, come from different ages and backgrounds and are way more complex and diverse than the old school gamers and pros, who are looking for a simple time sink to waste all that time they have in abundance because they have nothing to do once they come home.

You can't cater to both at once. What people from the first type love, the people from the other type abhor.

Trying it is like baking ice - pointless and doomed to fail.


Not true. TBC was quite different. First, you got reputation in TBC for most factions by running a corresponding dungeon. Even at the end, with the Isle of Quel'danas that people remember, you could get rep by running Magister's Terrace for Shattered Sun.

Second, badge gear was not gated behind reputation. Reputation in that game was typically only for vanity items - Netherwing being a good example. Initially in the game reputation was also needed to access the heroic dungeons, but again, that was at a time when you could run the normal dungeon for reputation rather than doing dailies.

The one thing that really made TBC stand out (and it shared this trait with Vanilla) was that all raids only had one size, there were no different difficulties for raid bosses, and the last content in the game was locked behind the most difficult bosses. Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoyed that time. Being in Black Temple and Mount Hyjal when it still required a long and harrowing attunement process was highly rewarding. Getting to the content back then FELT like getting to the actual end of the game, which I liked. Now the content can be seen with ease, and the new end of the game is beating things on their hard mode and for achievements. Not as epic as when content itself was the prize. That said, obviously they did not go back to that model ever.

There has never been a questing model like MoP. TBC emphasized dailies very little (mostly for vanity), WotLK had champion tabards and one faction that you had to do dailies for (Sons of Hodir, but they had few quests and rewarded 450-650 rep for them), Cataclysm followed suit with WotLK, but allowed you to champion Therazane, which offered an enchant like Sons of Hodir had.

MoP is its own, new, grinding model. And it's waaaay out there in terms of grinding.
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90 Tauren Warrior
9365
Don't ever say that again. Ever.

I became incredibly infuriated when Jay Wilson said that when someone questioned the horrible story in Diablo III.

It's unprofessional and shows you know you're wrong, but won't accept it.


I am so tired of the ridiculously pathetic double standard on these forums. Apparently it's okay for us, as a player-base to act like spoiled children who fling vitriol at the way of the CMs personally, the devs, Blizzard, Activision, Vivendi, each other, other people, other games, and so on and so forth...

But a CM dares to say "No! Bad!" and "Agree to disagree?" and suddenly he's the height of unprofessionalism and is rude and unbecoming. People here call for folks to be fired with regularity, yet when a CM makes a clearly tongue-in-cheek comment in an effort to correct an accusation that is far off base...he's stepped over the line.

Heck...look at the title of this very thread and think about the RIDICULOUSNESS of it. It is basically calling every CM who has ever uttered the phrase "We respect/value your feedback and use it", or any variation of it, a liar. Forget that there have been examples of exactly that happening in this very thread, people simply cherry-pick their biggest pet peeve in this game and pile on.

Understand this...just because there is something in this game that you don't like does not give you the right, or in any way make it appropriate, to treat CMs, devs, and especially other players with the amount of disrespect that too many of us are currently giving them/each other.

Just because your pet issues hasn't been handled in the manner in which you want it handled doesn't mean that we're being lied to.
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90 Tauren Shaman
10685
The OP has a point.. They did specifically say that they felt it was too much for players to feel that they had to grind reputations for head and shoulder enchants and then they turn around and put the enchants for other slots behind reputations.

Blizzard does do a lot of backtracking when it comes to stuff like this, and they have for as long as I can remember. The problem is that after several years of it, it's like a pile of !@#$ in the middle of the barn.


That's a bit misleading, don't you think? They REMOVED head enchants entirely and gave scribes the ability to make the shoulder enchants that are able to be sold/traded/gifted to others. At NO point are mandatory enchants hid behind reputation grinds. The BEST enchants are gated, true. But the content is being cleared withOUT BiS enchants which begs the question: If you have trouble clearing content at appropriate ilvl that many people already HAVE cleared, is it more a question of gear or player skill?


Isn't that kind of misleading also? I mean your skill might be appropriate but you are also depending on 9 or 24 other ppl where their skill might not be up to par.
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90 Tauren Warrior
9365
11/14/2012 08:54 AMPosted by Demiurge
and just because you are a fanboy or think the game is fine doesn't mean people do not have a valid complaint. Now run along you sicken me.


You just sadden me. Perhaps some day you'll be able to treat people with a modicum of respect, and act like an adult.

Enjoy your temper tantrums.
Edited by Prozioc on 11/14/2012 9:03 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
4680
Blizzard are listening, but they fell victim to the small, vocal community of BC lovers, who want BC back at any cost, and they did it TWICE.

-They tried to bring back the BC dungeons with CC and all and lost so many Wrath fans that they quickly changed back to the Wrath style of doing things.

-They are now trying to bring back the BC daily questing model, and again are faced with insane discontent from the masses, who are typically silent and let you know what they think with their wallets.

Blizzard had to make a decision in Wrath, which they keep postponing, hoping to dodge the problem if they bury their heads deep enough in the sand, and if it doesn't go away, their heads are simply not buried deep enough.

The problem is simple - do they want to appeal to the nerds and people with no lives from BC, or do they want to appeal to the masses who have friends, jobs, schools, families, kids, come from different ages and backgrounds and are way more complex and diverse than the old school gamers and pros, who are looking for a simple time sink to waste all that time they have in abundance because they have nothing to do once they come home.

You can't cater to both at once. What people from the first type love, the people from the other type abhor.

Trying it is like baking ice - pointless and doomed to fail.


So true! ^^^^^ Long, repetitive grinds do not equal quality content, no matter how much they want to repeat that slogan. Time sinks are not unique, they are repetitive and it's purposefully meant to slow players down so they can milk more time and money from subscribers. Did Blizz really think that no one would notice? XD
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90 Worgen Hunter
2445

When something you feel strongly about hasn't been changed, that doesn't mean that we've dismissed feedback. In fact, sometimes we really like a suggestion, but implementing it doesn't quite fit into the schedule yet, or there are technical or design reasons why it doesn't fit into the game yet. Sometimes, we want to wait til we can implement a more elegant solution. And, of course, sometimes we simply disagree that a particular change is the right course for the game. Nonetheless, in none of these cases is feedback dismissed - it was still taken into account during the decision making process.


May I ask, what sort of process caused the wings of my $25.00 Celestial Steed to break, and what kind of decision will it take to get them fixed?
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90 Undead Warlock
0
11/13/2012 09:49 AMPosted by Windsocks
The OP has a point.. They did specifically say that they felt it was too much for players to feel that they had to grind reputations for head and shoulder enchants and then they turn around and put the enchants for other slots behind reputations.


The shoulder enchants and head enchants had always been obtained only by one method, and their was only one good one for each spec/class. Enchantments from an enchanter vary. I can get different ones for my weapons, as a healer, that are good. Most of the enchants are obtained just from a trainer. Enchants that might be favorites are better quality are behind rep, but that's never been a new concept. Previously, we were forced to get reputation to enhance pieces at all.


And if people want to keep talking about how great it was in TBC....don't forget the number of enchants that were a small drop % from a specific dungeon :p.
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90 Undead Warlock
0


you misunderstand the situation. We are the playerbase- PAY these dinks. They are service providers. They are by default expected to be professional.

And as customers we have had to put up with a lot of crappiness. A lot of people gladly jump ship the SECOND a more enjoyable game comes along. I hope you in your infinite teenage wisdom can recognize that so many choices in MOP were designed PURELY to make players have to spend more time grinding and farming dailies to increase subscription time.

[quote]Just because your pet issues hasn't been handled in the manner in which you want it handled doesn't mean that we're being lied to.
and just because you are a fanboy or think the game is fine doesn't mean people do not have a valid complaint. Now run along you sicken me.


This isn't about the valid complaints. Very few of us will say there are not valid complaints. This is about the fact that people bicker about every given thing. Now you got ppl bickering about other people being able to get into raids that they can. They want the BC model back. So please, tell me, have you even read this thread and read some of the things that sicken some of us.

Before you call me a fanboy, I am very much sick of a lot of the bugs in CRZ, and have been for a while. I am not a fanboy. I simply don't argue just to argue
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