World of Warcraft®

Dailies are not fun. Dailies are not compelling. Dailies are boring. Dailies turn a game into a chore. Dailies turn a pleasurable waste of time into an infuriating waste of time.

11/14/2012 11:06 AMPosted by Anderine

Dailies are not fun. Dailies are not compelling. Dailies are boring. Dailies turn a game into a chore. Dailies turn a pleasurable waste of time into an infuriating waste of time.

I don't agree with anything you just said.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Blizzard can't simply cater to one of us now can they?

11/14/2012 11:06 AMPosted by Anderine

Dailies are not fun. Dailies are not compelling. Dailies are boring. Dailies turn a game into a chore. Dailies turn a pleasurable waste of time into an infuriating waste of time.

Ive tried to stay away from this thread for multiple reasons the man is I hate being trolled by fellow players.

My game time has been severely dwindled due to the fact I dont have 2 hours a day to do all my dailies and my raid group fizzled due to immaturity.

We should not have to be forced to do dailies as a gear curve at all. Its ridiculous that the current gear curve goes like this:
Heroics>lfr>Lfr2>lfr3>msv>hof>toes

Heres the way it should have honestly gone if they really wanted to make lfr matter more and dailies a little less but optional

heroics>dailies=lfr>lfr2>lfr3>msv>msv hero>hof>hof hero>toes>toes hero.

Not only would that have solved every issue but it would have made the longevity of this tier mean something.

11/13/2012 04:19 PMPosted by Maxaurelius

I am ABSOLUTELY calling B.S. on this one. All the threads that have been deleted due to negative feedback say hello.

So this thread, which is having negative feedback about feedback is going to get deleted? oh Wait... it got extended past it's cap so people can keep posting their feedback about it...

Are you being sarcastic or are you just dense?

11/13/2012 04:22 PMPosted by Maxaurelius

Case in point: The current Darkmoon trinkets on the way to getting the nerfbat.

Yeah, you're just dense.

11/13/2012 11:30 AMPosted by Daxxarri

You mean the one that just got a huge nerf? Yeah, they nerfed all the dmf cards.

No! Bad! Stop pointing to data-mined content as fact. The change that got picked up was actually an adjustment to Darkmoon Card trinkets for Challenge Mode stat scaling.

Also, if you would actually READ this thread, people go through and state many things that became only because of our feedback. Stop asking for examples of what they've done just because you're too lazy to look for it yourself.

11/14/2012 11:11 AMPosted by Vindicare

Dailies are not fun. Dailies are not compelling. Dailies are boring. Dailies turn a game into a chore. Dailies turn a pleasurable waste of time into an infuriating waste of time.

Why do you hate me so much? What did I do to you?

Blizzard’s plans are often not tested and get implemented without testing. They cry that it’s our fault for not providing feedback as if we are the ones who test it. We do provide feedback but when the feedback says something is messed up not balanced and or broken they dismiss our feedback and implement it saying it’s "working as intended” so is it intended to be broken unbalanced? No because then after many many months they make a change.. The problem is not with developers it’s with management and always has been.

I don't agree with anything you just said.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Blizzard can't simply cater to one of us now can they?

Yes they can. Dailies AND rep tabards.

If you make a way of avoiding the grind you essentially take away the whole concept of the reward for the grind.

Rewards for an activity make them meaningful within the context of the game.

One of the "fun" aspects of a grind is the sense of "satisfaction" many players get and find the flow of endorphins or whatever a reason they play mmo type games in the first place.

If you want fast twitch sorts of excitment based on execution you can play console games ... if you want this fantasy world where labor there will make you feel like you'r getting ahead, mmo's are a key option.

The dailies also create a sense, for those who want such a thing, of shared suffering/experience and create situations where you must decide to communicate with strangers either in action or by chat .. you face interesting social things like the prisoners dillema and behavioral economics issues.. do you group and cooperate? do you gank or leave let the other faction have some of the area to prevent confrontation?

These things might not be interesting to you.. but for them to exist and feel contexually relevant for those that like those obstacles, there must be rewards for participating.

The return for the grind is making isntances easier to run sooner (gear is a wasting asset that becomes less and less rare and valuable each week)... or those that want to focus more on their skill in actual fights etc, learn how to get more from a 363 item than a grinder gets with his 376 item, (both of which will be useless after a few more weeks of sha drops , and drops you'd get from raids (or raid finder if you like grinding easy instances instead of dalies)

They have a niche there for some people and to make that niche a important option, that option must have unique rewards. (unique, and as I said, not fluffy.. they must feel like they give you aid in progessing in the saga that person enjoys)

All this would stop if they would have a more diverse group of people that test their content. Then new management that would listen to the testers and keep an open mind. The issue is with management’s perceptual sets and paradigm's

11/14/2012 12:30 PMPosted by Touchyone

If you make a way of avoiding the grind you essentially take away the whole concept of the reward for the grind.

thats the paradigm!! who said a game must have a "grind" how about rewards for doing something hard like a tricky and difficult feat that requires skill? vs rewards for doing something "hard" as hard being mind numbing painfull to force yourself to do.

11/13/2012 12:03 PMPosted by Daxxarri

When I read this, here's what I am understanding. The enchant on the gear is MORE IMPORTANT than the actual gear itself? So, enchant > gear?

Unfortunately, it seems that you did misinterpret what I wrote. No, the enchantments are not more important than the gear, but they do complement all the gear you'll ever get over the course of that expansion (which is what made those reps essential). In Cataclysm, and previously, you had to have those item enhancements because they would apply over any gear you ever got. In Mists, you can skip rep gear, and move on to better gear, and never miss the reputations you didn't earn in the long run. Not that I'm advocating skipping dailies - there are definitely reasons to do them; just not to the point of fatigue that some choose to. We loosened the cap, and the intention there was to give players some flexibility regarding how they approached them.

While better gear is always helpful, the rep gear is only compelling enough to be called "necessary" relatively early in the progression cycle - and, in truth, it's only "necessary" for the guilds that are competing on that level. On the other hand, it seems that a certain type of player is always running extra miles of one sort or another to be at the cutting edge of content in every expansion, and with every new raid release. I mean, is any tangible, useful reward we provide--regardless of venue--going to seem to be anything less than absolutely mandatory to such a player, unless it is purely cosmetic?

Finally, as Zarhym mentioned elsewhere. We are paying attention and want to do better in the future. We're not in a position to completely re-work the way players interact with dailies on-the-fly, right-this-second. That expectation is unrealistic. We are always interested in learning better ways to approach these design challenges and make fun and compelling content, though.

All due respect they are not only neccisary for top end raiders. They are also neccisarry for middle of the rode scrub transmog nuts like myself. I want to transmog my huntard T14. She is my second 90. Since before she hit 90 I have been doing Sha each week. As soon as she hit 90 I got her to 460 as soon as possible for MV. I am now stuck. There is only 2 slots that I can get 463 items to upgrade to increase I level. I have 2 drops from my 2 runs in MV (thats pretty damn lucky in my books). I have done it this week and still have Sha to do. If I don't get gloves from Sha even were I to fill out the last two slots from Heroics I would still be nearl 60 ilvl points off being able to do HoF. Even were I to farm motes for or buy the crafted gloves I would still be 33 points off. I litterally have to hit revered with golden lotus to be able too run HoF this week.

Now I understand that its progression and gear earn't in MV gets you into HoF however when you are already reliant on RNG to try and get the gear you are after out of the later instance and then on RNG to even get into that instance there are increasing chances that you will litterally be unable to get the items you are after. You need to give yourself the maximum runs at an instance that you can to collect a full set and this is not possible unless ......... you do dailies.

Another problem with the "grind" paradigm is that not eveyone who plays the game does not have a life. I work and often dont have the time needed to be dedicated to a video game to get to do content that almost everyone else gets to. Make the game more about skill vs the sheer level of time you waste doing things that suck

11/14/2012 12:37 PMPosted by Eleric

If you make a way of avoiding the grind you essentially take away the whole concept of the reward for the grind.

thats the paradigm!! who said a game must have a "grind" how about rewards for doing something hard like a tricky and difficult feat that requires skill? vs rewards for doing something "hard" as hard being mind numbing painfull to force yourself to do.

I explained myself.

I did not say "hard"

I said contextual sense of accomplishment for those who take that sort of excapism as a key element in any virtual world game in which they participate.

That has been traditionally an important part of an MMO.

Now, yes you don't like it.. but what you like would in fact take away from the contextual progress that others do like.

Perhaps we should have separate games? And let Activision make one that is more action based with no grind and another with lots of funky old MMO grind to it.

Which game of their should be grind orientated for people who like that sense that their daily toil will get them ahead?

[quote][quote]

Rewards for an activity make them meaningful within the context of the game.

One of the "fun" aspects of a grind is the sense of "satisfaction" many players get and find the flow of endorphins or whatever a reason they play mmo type games in the first place.

While I understand what you are saying about there should be unique rewards behind the rep grind to incentavise people to do it I don't understand why they made it items that effect PvE progression. The people who do dailies and the very few who actually enjoy them would mostly be happy with bling items like mounts. Hell Cloud Serpents is probably one of the most farmed reps and the only thing it really gets you is mounts.

I personnally would do all the factions on one toon or another to earn the various mounts no matter how long the grind took. It just annoys me that my ability to progress PvE (LFR) is locked behind RNG in MV and Sha or grinding dailies.

11/14/2012 12:41 PMPosted by Eleric

Another problem with the "grind" paradigm is that not eveyone who plays the game does not have a life. I work and often dont have the time needed to be dedicated to a video game to get to do content that almost everyone else gets to. Make the game more about skill vs the sheer level of time you waste doing things that suck

If you don't have the time, you'll play less and logically accomplish raids a few weeks or a month after the first waves of players do.

Less time logically means you'd do things later right?

I'm not in a rush at all either.. just depends if I fall into the right guild group to enjoy running the raids with or not.

Less time but just as soon ?

You will not need to grind later as they will have higher ilvl stuff dropping from dungeons by a patch typically than you'd get from the rep.. as the blue basically pointed out.

11/14/2012 12:48 PMPosted by Touchyone

Another problem with the "grind" paradigm is that not eveyone who plays the game does not have a life. I work and often dont have the time needed to be dedicated to a video game to get to do content that almost everyone else gets to. Make the game more about skill vs the sheer level of time you waste doing things that suck

If you don't have the time, you'll play less and logically accomplish raids a few weeks or a month after the first waves of players do.

Less time logically means you'd do things later right?

I'm not in a rush at all either.. just depends if I fall into the right guild group to enjoy running the raids with or not.

Less time but just as soon ?

You will not need to grind later as they will have higher ilvl stuff dropping from dungeons by a patch typically than you'd get from the rep.. as the blue basically pointed out.

And at that point people will stop doing the earlier LFR and anyone who didn't get the items for their sets will essentially be out of luck with no ability to finish the set. I know this because the only item my mage never got in T13 LFR was the belt. Every week missed now trying to get set itmes increases the chance that you won't ever get them.