Sick of Blizz Lies about hearing feedback

90 Human Paladin
5145
Blizzard are saints compared to a lot of developers friend.

You want to know a developer who says they "listen" to player feedback, but ignore it and follow their own agenda regardless of what people think? BIOWARE. ME3 ring some bells for anybody?

The decisions I make matter they said....

Completely shape my experience and outcome they said....

my a**...
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90 Gnome Mage
6035
just wanna say, several years ago I wrote a post about absolutely needed changes for battlegrounds.

i never got a single blue. The post only got 5-6 pages and then fanned out.

2 weeks later a guy claiming to be ghost crawler said that was a good post and told me some future changes to the mage class, which all came true later in wolk.

The patch before the wolk patch 4/5 bg changes i suggest on the forums were implemented.

Sorry, but they listen. You just make bad suggestions apparently.
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MVP
100 Night Elf Priest
11795
11/15/2012 06:48 PMPosted by Lobsterfork
Sorry, but they listen.


They really do. I tend to have a long memory about things on these forums, so I've seen it happen again and again. I can see that newer people might not understand or accept it - but a LOT of feedback gets taken into account and implemented.

So keep suggesting things like xmogs and wakener titles - they happen.
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This will be probably my final post in this thread.

The main debate has now moved here: us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7006898525

I am pleased that my initial post has now created a large discussion regarding how Blizzard deals with feedback. Not only did posts receive actual blue responses, the thread itself was featured in an article on wowinsider, where there is also now an ongoing debate regarding blizzard's use of feedback in their comment section. and of course, the new thread linked above.

Finally, I will agree that Blizzard is listening, and historically, there is evidence that they have used feedback.

However, there is also counter-evidence, and most of that counter-evidence involves issues within the last six months. Therefore, I think my OP's complaints reflects more my perceived notion of the company's current attitude towards feedback: solicited, but not used.


That's because not all feedback is good, it's really that simple.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
13055
11/15/2012 06:51 PMPosted by Snowfox
Sorry, but they listen.


They really do. I tend to have a long memory about things on these forums, so I've seen it happen again and again. I can see that newer people might not understand or accept it - but a LOT of feedback gets taken into account and implemented.

So keep suggesting things like xmogs and wakener titles - they happen.


The issue some have, I think is that they dont' communicate that they are listening very well. On every public forum, here, and everywhere else, down to their individual twitter feeds, blues and devs have studiously avoided even acknowledging about 70% of the problems people have with CRZ.

That combined with reducing everything down to "maybe you should quit wow and play a single player game" isn't exactly the way to inspire confidence that one's complaints are being heard.

I don't think most people are demanding that their preferences be catered to exactly. But the message I get is that the devs/blues are simply not interested at all in the ways that CRZ detracts from my gaming experience.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
3485
The issue some have, I think is that they dont' communicate that they are listening very well. On every public forum, here, and everywhere else, down to their individual twitter feeds, blues and devs have studiously avoided even acknowledging about 70% of the problems people have with CRZ.

That combined with reducing everything down to "maybe you should quit wow and play a single player game" isn't exactly the way to inspire confidence that one's complaints are being heard.

I don't think most people are demanding that their preferences be catered to exactly. But the message I get is that the devs/blues are simply not interested at all in the ways that CRZ detracts from my gaming experience.


Not to be all 'back in my day' but the amount of interaction and communication we have with companies like Blizzard is massive and unprecedented compared to the 70's and 80's where, if you were lucky, you could write to a PO box and get a form letter 6-8 weeks later.

Has a Blue actually said quit Wow and play a single game or has another player said that?

As for CRZ and dailies, the arguments have pretty much been made, most posts are pretty much just rehashing the same complaints. So if Blizzard addressed it once, there really is no need for them to keep responding.

Ultimately, they really only have one of two potential responses: A) We're looking into it and if we can make changes we will, or B) This how it's going to be and we do not intend to make further changes. I haven't been following this as carefully as others, so have they said either of those?
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90 Pandaren Monk
10790
They aren't responding to the feedback I agree with. They must not be listening to anyone that really matters.

These threads just make me feel sorry for the CMs. =/
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90 Dwarf Paladin
3485
I will ask this again:

The forums are a minority, yet, in all my time playing, I have never seen a survey, email, questionnaire, or any other form of communication that Blizzard alludes to in regards to the 90% that we don't see.

Whenever there are issues, we are always directed to the forums. If we have feedback, we are directed to the forums. When we are finally answered, we are told that we are the vocal minority and that we really don't matter. Alright, I can deal with that. Point me to where the other 90% of the player base, the vocal majority, express feedback. I would rather use that medium.

Thanks.


Just taking a guess here but I would think Blizzard generates a lot of its information just by watching how people play. What content they do and don't do, player activity, time spent playing, etc.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
13055
Has a Blue actually said quit Wow and play a single game or has another player said that?

As for CRZ and dailies, the arguments have pretty much been made, most posts are pretty much just rehashing the same complaints. So if Blizzard addressed it once, there really is no need for them to keep responding.

Ultimately, they really only have one of two potential responses: A) We're looking into it and if we can make changes we will, or B) This how it's going to be and we do not intend to make further changes. I haven't been following this as carefully as others, so have they said either of those?


They have said none of the above related to the specific issues with CRZ that I listed.

Ghostcrawler on both his twitter and (I believe) on one of the interviews on the other sites said both "people are just unhappy because they want a single player game" and "if you don't like CRZ perhaps an MMO is not for you"
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100 Night Elf Warrior
10210
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7004407127
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86 Dwarf Hunter
3085
I am with you on this, but the forums really doesn't count as the voices of the World of Warcraft community. Blizzard Entertainment will never be able to make everyone happy since there are approximately ten million folks who pay a month fee for World of Warcraft, and most companies will have to let somebody down. As much as I hate how gaming companies work as 'dictatorships' instead of 'democracies', it's just how it is. A lot of gaming companies don't even care if the customers are happy if they are sitting in billions of dollars with a lot of workers owning huge mansion's in a nice urban area, and that is kind of how Blizzard happens to work.
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90 Human Mage
3465
Just because they don't make the changes you want doesn't mean they don't listen, or that they're lying.

Though, I still don't get CRZ.


Not what he's saying - he's saying the masses are complaining about the issues he brought up and nothing is being done about them.

+1 to the OP. How the hell is this expanison 'play how you like'? I've never felt more restrained in wow.
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Community Manager
Obviously they listen to feedback. But that doesn't necessitate any applause. When they discount feedback (even after listening to it) that was well reasoned and highly supported, they should offer better explanation (if they want to keep their community feeling like communication is valuable). They should be judged based upon the context of the time, and right now the context does not look good.


Brace yourself, because I'm about to say some things that will probably ruffle a few feathers. Got your feathers ready? Okay, here we go:

We have a long tradition of explaining our design decisions. In addition the various posts we make on the forums, there are numerous Dev Watercooler blogs authored by Ghostcrawler and other developers that exist solely to discuss what we're thinking, and why we're thinking it. Those vary in frequency since, ultimately, developer time is best spent doing things like developing World of Warcraft.

That said, there will be times when, after reviewing the feedback, we still stick to our guns and not offer a follow-up explanation regarding why. There are pitfalls to starting a discussion to provide our rationale after such an event:

  • Players that are okay with or neutral toward the situation don't particularly care.
  • The players that aren't okay with the situation almost certainly aren't going to change their minds because we made a post. They're almost always heavily invested in a particular position on the subject, and further discourse won't alter their opinion. In these cases, the expressed desire for follow-up on feedback doesn't result in useful clarification; it simply provides more ammunition for a debate. Typically a debate that already played out in prior feedback and resulted in a decision one way or another.
  • While sometimes it's necessary to make our stance clear, refraining from a 'this is just the way it is, and here's why' statement can offer us the latitude to change our minds in the future. In some cases, we're still evaluating a situation, but we need to see how it plays out for longer than a few weeks.


And, on that note, it's very much worth noting that we change our minds with a fair amount of frequency. Our decision to provide alternative means to acquire Brawler's Guild invitations was based on player feedback, but I didn't create a post to discuss why that decision was made, just as I probably wouldn't have created a post to explain why we didn't make the change--the rationale was already out there, and it's still largely in place. That change is a compromise.

CRZ is harshly criticized by some, and praised by some, but mostly it fits seamlessly into the gameplay of many (as it was intended to). The technology makes possible some truly cool things, like cross realm parties. It's a response to the many complaints that the old world felt empty and devoid of life. It's also a lot more than that. We're aware of the concerns that players have expressed about it, and we'll continue to improve it so the experience that players have with it only gets better.

Yes, the current design for dailies is very much based on player feedback, and it fixes some of the things that, ultimately, really weren't working well in Cataclysm. Now we're seeing a totally different kind of feedback, and we'll learn from that too. World of Warcraft is still very much an iterative entity.

Finally, some food for thought. Some changes that are pretty much universally embraced now were highly contentious in their time. For example, one of the largest debates World of Warcraft has ever seen revolved around something as essential and commonplace today as offering non-raiders access to epic items. Some of you will recall that this was an extremely active debate, and opinions were harshly divided (and harshly expressed) on the subject. We'll continue to listen to player feedback as we design into the future - but we also know that we can't please all the people all the time. If nothing else, history has absolutely taught us that.

Of course, we're still going to try.
Edited by Daxxarri on 11/16/2012 1:49 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
My feathers! They're ruffled!

Ruffled I say!
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90 Human Warlock
12950
11/16/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Daxxarri
CRZ is harshly criticized by some, and praised by some, but mostly it fits seamlessly into the gameplay of many (as it was intended to). The technology makes possible some truly cool things, like cross realm parties.


Crossrealm parties I love & all (I really do)... but seamlessly isn't even the word I'd use for CRZ. >_>
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90 Undead Priest
13060
My feathers! They're ruffled!

Ruffled I say!


yes....yes....let the jimmies rustle through you.
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Community Manager
Crossrealm parties I love & all (I really do)... but seamlessly isn't even the word I'd use for CRZ. >_>


"Mostly" is a key part of that sentence. There are certainly still improvements to make.

Just taking a guess here but I would think Blizzard generates a lot of its information just by watching how people play. What content they do and don't do, player activity, time spent playing, etc.


Your guess is spot on. We are constantly gathering and analyzing information on gameplay. Raw data is tremendously useful, but it doesn't really offer context, which is why other sources of information are essential.
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100 Human Priest
18125
Man, I got my feathers all ready and you didn't ruffle them at all! Yet another disappointment from Blizz!
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