Sick of Blizz Lies about hearing feedback

90 Night Elf Druid
11220
I'll never be able to fathom why people go absolutely crazy happy over getting non-answers and hubris simply because the text is blue.
Edited by Veliladon on 11/16/2012 2:46 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Druid
7640
So why couldn't they roll back/disable CRZs in the meantime while they debug the feature on PTRs?The only reason I could think of is that CRZ was used as a cost cutting measure and they physically couldn't roll it back due to lack of servers.


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Absolutely.[/quote]
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12 Blood Elf Priest
0
11/16/2012 02:15 PMPosted by Daxxarri
There are discussions about adding in some reputation gain from other methods. There's not much concrete to report yet, though.


Has anyone suggested adding a checkbox to dungeon finder that allows you to choose to gain reputation INSTEAD of valor? I know that people like myself would rather be doing dungeons than dailies. If the problem is truly "double-dipping," any chance we can choose one reward or the other and still run the content we want/enjoy?
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90 Human Warrior
13015
11/16/2012 02:43 PMPosted by Valpin
There are discussions about adding in some reputation gain from other methods. There's not much concrete to report yet, though.


Daxx, have you thought about implementing daily dungeons again such as were present in BC and LK? Except this time, you could have a faction leader (i.e. whoever is in charge of the Shado Pan, Klaxxi, etc.) task you with clearing a dungeon related to their lore. When completed you would be rewarded VP and rep with that particular faction. I think this would be an excellent middle ground for everyone.


Indeed, I believe this to be an excellent idea as well. Players have to head out to get the quest, queue for specific dungeon and/or form their own group.

11/16/2012 02:50 PMPosted by Peterguning
So why couldn't they roll back/disable CRZs in the meantime while they debug the feature on PTRs?The only reason I could think of is that CRZ was used as a cost cutting measure and they physically couldn't roll it back due to lack of servers.


Absolutely.


Probably because CRZ from a top lvl90 PoV is different from a fresh new player who has never played WoW before. A complain in cata was that new players spent days/months learning the ropes while leveling, they don't see anyone around the leveling zones, they have no one to ask how things work. Server merge will not solve this problem as no matter how many servers you merge, the top gets crowded, leveling zones stays empty.

If you will sit back and think, a lot of the recent changes to WoW in Cata and MoP are geared towards getting new players to enjoy the journey. UI guides and improvements, ease of talent trees, pet battles. How many never made it to 90? I don't know, but it must be pretty significant to encourage Blizzard to force CRZ.
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90 Undead Rogue
4975
Ok, I think that those posting about how Bliz never takes into account player feedback for improving the game are completely wearing blinders. Almost every single example people are pulling here is a feature that was only implemented in the first place due to player feedback or request.

You may not care to remember the complaints about having Raids and Dungeons be the only route to player improvement, and for those lacking a decent guild or just do not like that form of contact, they were unhappy their characters could not be built up in power. Enter, Dailies, allowing high end Valor and Justice gear but requiring no raid schedule, or allies to attain. An extra optional route to increasing player strength, and yes it is optional because you can jump from quest greens to dungeons, heroics, and normal mode raiding without this gear. Telling me you can't just isn't true I'm sorry to say, it's just another case of people believing all options are meant to be completed together in a mandatory fashion, when realistically, only Realm First raiders are on this level, not 90% of the player base. But moving on:

How many complaints about not being able to level with friends, how many nostalgic paragraphs of how much game world is wasted and empty? How many complaints of people frustrated by never seeing anyone in the world on their dead server? CRZ implimentation is the direct product of Blizzard listening to feedback on these issues. Fundamentally changing the way the largest MMO in the world handles player servers is a huge effort however, and its bound to have more than a few issues even a year after its launch, so let them fix the bugs. Remember I am not advocating the validity of the feature, or how smooth its launch is, only stating that this is very clearly a case of player feedback being heard.

"But Blizz, theres no content, and Dragon Soul sucks!" Heard, three raids this quickly after launch, and I would challenge anyone to say any of these are not better than Dragon Soul.

Brawlers Guild is something people have been asking for, for years and I would hope that you wouldn't dispute that fact, the cries for Solo PvE content have been deafening, obviously blizzard agreed because they made this feature. You also completely ignored the fact that they added additional avenues to acquiring the invitations based on player feedback. Understand that when dealing with a game of this size anything that is less than extremely difficult to acquire is going to be in the hands of literally hundreds of thousands of people. Crying over difficulty of entrance to Brawlers Guild at its launch is still a whisper compared to the amount of screaming there would be if it was easy to get into, but had massive lines or queues before anyone could actually get anything done. Due to the nature of how this content works, that would be the case, and until Blizzard finalizes a spectating engine for things like this and arena, thats the only way it can be.

I feel frustrated on behalf of the Devs and CS who's entire job is dealing with criticism, while it is necessary and an important job (though you would have us believe otherwise) the percentage of actual feedback given that is not only logical but also fits into the design intent and tech feasibility is so small that if I were Zar or Daxx I would either be a raging alcoholic or in a padded room. Consider yourself lucky that you even have people to carry on a dialogue of ANY sort for a product you feel passionate about, rather than pinning them as being conspirators or liars, because the majority of your life is filled with media that doesn't care what you think.

Be aware that I did not read the preceding 40+ pages before writing this post, and if the people who inevitably disagree with me would put half the effort into their post as I did this one, the resulting valuable discussion might save a Blue Poster's sanity.
Edited by Squîd on 11/16/2012 3:01 PM PST
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90 Human Warrior
13015


Spot on.


Except cross-realm parties only help existing players who knows cross-realm friends, not new players who travel in empty zones and soon find WoW lackluster compared to other new MMOs, where players are still leveling.
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90 Undead Rogue
12140
So uh...
Have you guys read the rogue forums lately?
Or the trade chats, bg chats, or checked out the arena ladder to see where we are at?
Have you noticed how fast our health goes down?
Have you noticed how fast warriors and mages have been able to get their kills?
Have you noticed that the majority of arena comps are god and kfc?
Have you noticed some hunters and warriors are easily getting 2k+ rating with NO or VERY LITTLE prior arena experience?
Haha, yeah... Blizzard "listens" but unlike League of Legends they're too damn arrogant to give a s--t about what is best for us or the game.

I "liked" the posters thread by the way, you guys who are kissing Blizzard's a-s should probably care more about the game, or at least care about making it fun for everybody and not just the RPers and PVEers.
Edited by Sïck on 11/16/2012 3:08 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
14730
11/16/2012 02:15 PMPosted by Daxxarri
I don't know why you guys cannot admit you made a mistake and just give us some alternate ways to gain rep. Many excellent suggestions have been made and yes, before you say it, making the dailies the only path to reputation progression was a mistake.


There are discussions about adding in some reputation gain from other methods. There's not much concrete to report yet, though.


Honestly, I don't think you need to add other methods of gaining reputation as long as reputation doesn't cross the lines between solo play and social play. For example, I don't think reputations that are earned for doing dungeons or battlegrounds are a bad idea, but you shouldn't be giving PvE rewards from a PvP Reputation or questing perks to a PvE reputation. I think most of the sense of requirement that players feel from the new reputations stems from the fact that until 5.1 comes out, you need to quest in order to unlock the ability to spend a resource that is primarily earned in soloplay. There are raiders who honestly don't like questing (as this proves), just like there are solo players who don't like raiding.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
So uh...
Have you guys read the rogue forums lately?
Or the trade chats, bg chats, or checked out the arena ladder to see where we are at?
Have you noticed how fast our health goes down?
Have you noticed how fast warriors and mages have been able to get their kills?
Have you noticed that the majority of arena comps are god and kfc?
Have you noticed some hunters and warriors are easily getting 2k+ rating with NO or VERY LITTLE prior arena experience?
Haha, yeah... Blizzard "listens" but unlike League of Legends they're too damn arrogant to give a s--t about what is best for us or the game.

I "liked" the posters thread by the way, you guys who are kissing Blizzard's a-s should probably care more about the game, or at least care about making it fun for everybody and not just the RPers and PVEers.


We're not !@# kissing. There's nothing to be gained from it. Stop using insults when we actually are ok with certain things Blizzard does.
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100 Human Paladin
17690
just sliding in to make a quick idea about some of the rep gains like Klaxxi and Golden Lotus take forever at 156 or 158 to 200 rep why not just jump it to a flat 350 make rep gains quicker??

personally I'm to the point i log in sigh and log out. My guild wants to raid but just too tired to continue grinding these insane reps. wasn't so bad with BC or Wrath but just ugh now.
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69 Undead Mage
0
People need to get over the CRZ thing. It's in game. Deal with it or walk.
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12 Blood Elf Priest
0
Just taking a guess here but I would think Blizzard generates a lot of its information just by watching how people play. What content they do and don't do, player activity, time spent playing, etc.


That sort of data is only partially helpful, though, as it merely tells them what players are doing, and not why they are doing it or their satisfaction with said content.

For example, their data would tell them that I am doing dailies on multiple characters every day, while I have run almost no dungeons. But what conclusions can they draw from that data?

It would not explain that I prefer dungeons, but there's no point in running them until I meet a certain rep threshold, since it's faster to get valor-capped than it is to get to the rep required to spend the valor. It wouldn't tell them that I am dissatisfied with the daily grind to the point that I am considering cancelling one or both of my subscriptions. It wouldn't tell them that I would prefer to do my chores on a weekly basis, rather than a daily one (i.e. I'd rather do 7X quests per week than X quests per day for 7 days). In short, if they look at the data and say "he's doing dailies, clearly he's fine with the current system" then they're getting the wrong message. Because while I'm using the current system, I am not at all happy with it, nor do I plan to continue to indefinitely "make do" with a system that doesn't bring me enough entertainment for my gaming dollar.

In short, that sort of data is incomplete, and possibly dangerous to their bottom line.
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90 Undead Rogue
12140
So uh...
Have you guys read the rogue forums lately?
Or the trade chats, bg chats, or checked out the arena ladder to see where we are at?
Have you noticed how fast our health goes down?
Have you noticed how fast warriors and mages have been able to get their kills?
Have you noticed that the majority of arena comps are god and kfc?
Have you noticed some hunters and warriors are easily getting 2k+ rating with NO or VERY LITTLE prior arena experience?
Haha, yeah... Blizzard "listens" but unlike League of Legends they're too damn arrogant to give a s--t about what is best for us or the game.

I "liked" the posters thread by the way, you guys who are kissing Blizzard's a-s should probably care more about the game, or at least care about making it fun for everybody and not just the RPers and PVEers.


We're not !@# kissing. There's nothing to be gained from it. Stop using insults when we actually are ok with certain things Blizzard does.


I'm sorry, were you insulted?
If you're so proud maybe you shouldn't be.
I'm "ok" with certain things too, but that doesn't mean this game isn't completely broken right now. Can you do me a favor? Go through each and every line in the list I mentioned and answer them with reasons.
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23 Gnome Warrior
17190
11/16/2012 02:10 PMPosted by Rabbsm


Who's legging are you pulling?How many toons have you lvl'd now with CRZ? it does NOT fit seamlessly into the gameplay of ANYONE lvling pre-mop zones. Leveling on a pvp server is now almost utterly impossible because you don't know seem to understand the type of people that play this game. Ganking and griefing is at an all time high. Being camped endlessly by lvl90 players is horrible. Respawn of quest mob's way to long for the amount of people in the zone. Camping rares, farming nodes, and even going after specific pet battle pets nearly impossible to do now thanks to CRZ. You said you'd adjust respawns of nodes and rares, I dont think anyone can see the difference one bit. Flying around outlands looking for herbs or mining nodes, there are NONE.


Did you play in vanilla? Honest question. This is exactly how the game started out, with TONS of people in every zone.

So no, I don't really notice it or care about it, since it's how the game started for me.

This panda was not a RAF, and not my first 90. I maxxed out herbalism without any issues for nodes.


Hi. I've played since vanilla. My sister played since beta. This is our server:
Terenas is a Player vs Environment server for Blizzard's MMORPG, World of Warcraft. This is a Mountain Timezone server. This server was one of the original servers created by Blizzard.


Guess what? Back in vanilla there were lots of people in zones and it did not matter. Back then people were sociable and grouped up, we often had not other choice if we wanted to beat challenging quests and mobs. We had entire zones of elites (WS and Silithus). We were all roughly the same level and power. Medivh is an original server known for progression (and lets take a stab, elitist attitude perhaps?), Terenas is not such a server.

In vanilla we did not have level 90's on super fast flying mounts zipping over our heads competing or griefing level 20s stuck on the ground. Every expansion has increased the power of enemy players exponentially. There are very very few, if any, quest that provides any challenge or difficulty. There is no reason to be nice to people or interact with them anymore. If you need a dungeon you queue for it, you don't make nice with people in the zone and run into Deadmines anymore.

So you haven't noticed a difference, good for you. Some of us do see a difference.
Oh, and just because the game started that way doesn't make regression progression.
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