Sick of Blizz Lies about hearing feedback

90 Human Warrior
13525


Well just saying you canceled your sub and not say why....not helping. Not sure why you would cancel after the Annual Pass. I mean they weren't forcing you.


You didn't read that entire thing, did you? Someone said "Deal with CRZ or walk." Alera said "Thanks for the advice but I already did"

She cancelled because of CRZ. Not sure what could be more clear? If you looked at her post history, you know exactly why she cancelled.


Then you didn't read my post. I was referring to her post "I've unsubbed." I wasn't justifying anything about "Deal with CRZ or walk." I disagree with that notion. No need to get defensive here.

@Alera: Because history repeats itself.
Edited by Lorthuron on 11/16/2012 4:13 PM PST
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90 Gnome Mage
11195
11/16/2012 02:15 PMPosted by Daxxarri
I don't know why you guys cannot admit you made a mistake and just give us some alternate ways to gain rep. Many excellent suggestions have been made and yes, before you say it, making the dailies the only path to reputation progression was a mistake.


There are discussions about adding in some reputation gain from other methods. There's not much concrete to report yet, though.

If CRZ is here to stay, it would be nice if we could get some confimation that the fishing tournaments will be back and that two player mounts will eventually be fixed.


Those are both issues that we're working on, amongst others.


Thank you sir. May all the blessings of the angels be upon you. Thank you for listening and BTW I do some of the dailies but look forward to some excellent alternatives.
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90 Goblin Shaman
8425
11/15/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Abluething
Read it again smart guy. Toon has been 90 for 2 weeks. Check the Armoury if you like. Have a couple of items from MV and the Sha boots. Completed the quests for Kalaxxi and Shadow-pan whilst leveling and have not hit honoured with either. Even were I to make or buy the crafted gloves and get the cloak to 463 I would still not have ilvl to get into HoF LFR. Now it's not like its BC and I'm wanting to jump straight nto BT. This is the first tier of raiding. Unless I do dailies or hope for drops I will not have the ilvl to get in.


Hun, I am gung-ho on alternatives to dailies, but even I can see flaws in your argument.

I managed to hit the ilvl for HoF by getting 2 crafted item (I have friends that refuse to take tips <drives me up a wall to be honest>), the Sha boots, and I got very lucky off Sha and my tier drops actually dropped, and my LFR shoulders. If you look at my bracers- they're still 450 (as is my stat stick). The remainder of my gear was 463 (except my alchemy trinket).

It is perfectly possible to hit the ilvl without the rep items. A pain- yes, RNG has to like you (part of why I'm all for alternatives; that Jane can be a world class you know what some weeks)- but it's still possible.

One of the biggest reasons- and I've not mentioned this before- I am for alternatives is because totally depending on RNG can bite you in the patootie.
Edited by Jujubiju on 11/16/2012 4:21 PM PST
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90 Draenei Death Knight
0
11/16/2012 01:49 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Yes, the current design for dailies is very much based on player feedback, and it fixes some of the things that, ultimately, really weren't working well in Cataclysm. Now we're seeing a totally different kind of feedback, and we'll learn from that too. World of Warcraft is still very much an iterative entity.


The reason why you see feedback like this now is that in many ways WoW has wandered away from proper iterative design since Cataclysm. The idea of iterative design is you're gradually making improvements until you reach the ideal state. However in WoW changes tend to leap from one extreme to the other. That's why you get so much conflicting feedback. You skip all the intermediate steps so that you never get the feedback to stop.

The reason why people now accept epics for non raiders is because you did slowly adjust the perception of epics over the years. It wasn't something you decided to just radically alter one content patch to the new perceived ideal. First it was epics from alternate progression mechanics (badges), but was still aimed mainly at hardcore players. Then gradually the alternate progression mechanics were extended to the larger player base while at the same time the idea of epics being epic became heavily diluted until finally purple is just a color with no stat budget advantages.

Wrath did well because of iterative design. However it seems that because too many people criticized it as a "roller coaster ride" (which it wasn't, it was just more frequent change), we tossed it for a real roller coaster ride.
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85 Draenei Paladin
5605
All those people complaining about "having to grind dailies" want their 4-5 toons already decked out in ilvl489 gear by now. Well, I've got news for you...it aint happening and it's not supposed to be that way. You all want everything as easily as possible and as fast as possible just so u can sit in SW or Org and bombard trade channel with useless babble!

I had 5 level 85 when I started MoP about 2 weeks after launch (I like to be self sufficient and have every profession covered). Right now...2 months into the expansion, I've managed to level 4 of them to 90.

My main is at ilvl475, was able to do all LFRs the first week they came out. All my alts are sitting around ilvl465 without even trying or grinding any dailies since I can only earn 1k VP/week per toon. They are not even wearing crafted epics and some of them missed the Brewfest/Halloween free ring and trinket epics. I do not raid normal, do not belong to any sort of raiding guild...just Me, Myself, and I. Never had to grind dailies to advance my chars.

On my main I did Golden Lotus/Tillers once I hit 90. Was revered with Klaxxi very early (leveling 89 to 90 in Dread Waste should advance you pretty far with them) and hasn't done any of their dailies in while. Once exalted with Tillers, stopped doing the dailies and just planted motes every day. Stopped doing Golden Lotus at revered. Once Shado-pan and August Celestials unlocked only did those 2 set of dailies and stopped doing Shado-pan at revered. So currently am only doing 4 August Celestial dailies every day, do some pvp and do my MV+HoF Lfr each week plus Sha and I still feel I have been able to advance my toon. Only need like 5 more HoF Sigil for my legendary quest line...all done solo!
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90 Human Warrior
13525
You're not a beta tester. You guys are using words incorrectly. I get it CRZ is buggy but don't say you're beta testers. Lastly, I admire that you actually don't mind reporting things and do so instead of being apathetic about it.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5670
11/16/2012 04:07 PMPosted by Snowfox
It really does seem some players say "Blues! I demand an answer!".. and then the blues say "The answer is NO.".. and then the player says "That's not the answer I wanted! THE BLUES DON'T LISTEN TO FEEDBACK!"


I can only say I know that feedback and implementation take time, especially in a constantly evolving project like WoW, and I have nothing but respect for the people in the trenches doing all the hard work and getting flak from every angle.

My decision to leave (take a break?) is a combination of factors, a large set of issues that total out to be greater than the sum of the parts. Individually, the issues aren't that difficult to surmount, but they're all tied together. They can't be separated and addressed one at a time.

I'll still keep an eye on the patch notes; I might re-roll in the next expansion if the patch notes aren't addressing my concerns.

I'd rather take a step back now than try to log in, slog through something I don't enjoy and then resent all the time I spent slogging. Blizzard makes a constantly evolving product, evolution requires not just hard data, but context and feedback as well.

I just hope that feedback doesn't get drowned out by the noise.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
11/16/2012 04:33 PMPosted by Meiyun
You're not a beta tester. You guys are using words incorrectly. I get it CRZ is buggy but don't say you're beta testers. Lastly, I admire that you actually don't mind reporting things and do so instead of being apathetic about it.


Dealing with broken, poorly implemented things on live servers that should never have made it to live servers makes me a beta tester.


I get it, it shouldn't of been made to live but...what happened happened and all we can do is try and handle it and report the bugs or any bug that comes our way.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9325
11/16/2012 02:15 PMPosted by Daxxarri
I don't know why you guys cannot admit you made a mistake and just give us some alternate ways to gain rep. Many excellent suggestions have been made and yes, before you say it, making the dailies the only path to reputation progression was a mistake.


There are discussions about adding in some reputation gain from other methods. There's not much concrete to report yet, though.

If CRZ is here to stay, it would be nice if we could get some confimation that the fishing tournaments will be back and that two player mounts will eventually be fixed.


Those are both issues that we're working on, amongst others.


Regarding the reputation changes, in my guild of 6 real life friends, two who spent a lot of money doing server/faction changes pre-Mists have more or less quit (are going to lapse their accounts). From what they've said, the dailies and the imbalance in PvP are what did them in. Pre-mists, the 6 of us would run dungeons (with tabards for rep, for those of us who didn't really need gear, but might want a pet or mount), run BG's, and do LFR. We'd do dailies when we felt like it or while waiting for our buds to logon.

Having spent over $100 (each) on paid services, you can see these guys were invested in the game. They liked the Mists world, they liked the leveling experience, they liked monks, but they felt like hamsters on a wheel due to the over "correction" of dailies, didn't enjoy BGs (rogue main for one of them, melee on another), etc. So, now they are playing free to play SWTOR. Another one is playing Call of Duty (or some new game that came out this week). I don't want to play SWTOR, but I want to play with my friends.

I'm saddened by the (imo) over-emphasis of dailies. I'm saddened by the pvp imbalances that are making some classess/specs feel useless. And I'm saddened by the developers not being able to see that giving a bonus for the first dungeon (for example, same for bgs) per day is equivalent to penalizing those who don't log on daily (it is merely glass-full vs. half empty point of view... but time vs. effort calc is the same regardless).

I'm not going to quit. But every time a friend quits it is not fun for us. And when they quit due to basic (imo) quality of life issues, well, that kinda makes me unhappy with the developers that they built something pretty cool that some folks are finding unpleasant enough that they'd quit ever after many years and hundreds of dollars (each).
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90 Human Mage
4215
11/16/2012 04:10 PMPosted by Meiyun
And not to mention, the majority of people tend to write out complaints/criticisms that are absolutely degrading to Blizzard and their PR guys. Be mature about your criticisms, and be as constructive as possible. 9/10 I see blues being stoned on the forums. It's awfully sad that Blizzard has given to the public rich franchises filled to the brim with content and lore. I mean they turned an actively progressing story into a game that you can immerse yourself in! They literally made you a hero of their story. And at the end of the day, something fantastic to complain about. Show some appreciation and give them GOOD feedback.


When you are treated like a piece of gum on the bottom of someone's shoe ... you don't tend to "show some appreciation."

Good feedback was given. In beta. Six months ago.
More good feedback was given. In PTR. Three months ago.
All good feedback WAS COMPLETELY ignored and this thing went live. This is what happened.

1.general: AsnarkyPlayer <Hydraxis>Hey! Every post I do is repeated!
1.general: AsnarkyPlayer <Hydraxis>Hey! Every post I do is repeated!
1.general: AsnarkyPlayer <Hydraxis>Hey! Every post I do is repeated!
1.general: AsnarkyPlayer <Hydraxis>Hey! Every post I do is repeated!
1.general: AsnarkyPlayer <Hydraxis>Hey! Every post I do is repeated!
3. LocalDefens: Mrstabbystabu<BoreanTundra> lol, no [expletive]! Man ... this is SO [expletive] up! Are u sotned? Iam! I rold up a big leaf an smokin' now.
3. LocalDefens: Mrstabbystabu<BoreanTundra> lol, no [expletive]! Man ... this is SO [expletive] up! Are u sotned? Iam! I rold up a big leaf an smokin' now.
3. LocalDefens: Mrstabbystabu<BoreanTundra> lol, no [expletive]! Man ... this is SO [expletive] up! Are u sotned? Iam! I rold up a big leaf an smokin' now.
3. LocalDefens: Mrstabbystabu<BoreanTundra> lol, no [expletive]! Man ... this is SO [expletive] up! Are u sotned? Iam! I rold up a big leaf an smokin' now.
3. LocalDefens: Mrstabbystabu<BoreanTundra> lol, no [expletive]! Man ... this is SO [expletive] up! Are u sotned? Iam! I rold up a big leaf an smokin' now.

A little bit of an exaggeration, but NOT BY MUCH.

Kindness and decency, you say? Poppycock! Respect must be earned! And after forcing this ... atrocity on us ... I daresay it will take MUCH to earn it back.

Here, have a NEW SHINY 2P mount when you recruit a friend and they pay two months of game time! LOLZ! It's BROKEN! BY INTENT! SUCKERS!

Really ... people were getting dismounted and disconnected in Beta. Dismounted and disconnected in PTR. AND dismounted and disconnected when it went live.

How about THEY show us some respect and "not release content until it is ready."


CRZ hasn't been an issue for me. I have absolutely no performance issues. I also am not playing on a toaster. In fact being able to group with my friends and family across realms for PvP and PvE is awesome. But what I am saying is purely anecdotal, as is your evidence. And you openly admitted to exaggerating. You have given no substantial evidence for your claims and with your anecdotal evidence you have not presented it in a realistic manner.

Post screenshots with timestamps of when you DC. Upload logs from the crash. Take video. Give evidence to support your claims.

If you are on the side of persecution and have given no evidence other than anecdotal claims, you have nothing other than words.

"Treated like a piece of gum on the bottom of someone's shoe."

Seriously? Are you that entitled? You've made some in-game observations that you have disliked and because you feel like you know everything, came to the conclusion that the problem stems from exactly what you think it does. In reality you probably have no idea. And at the end of the day if a RAF mount is supposedly causing rare, but sporadic DCs, do you think it is the most high-priority issue?

Blizzard will release content as they please.
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90 Tauren Druid
7425
11/16/2012 04:21 PMPosted by Vyers
The reason why you see feedback like this now is that in many ways WoW has wandered away from proper iterative design since Cataclysm. The idea of iterative design is you're gradually making improvements until you reach the ideal state. However in WoW changes tend to leap from one extreme to the other. That's why you get so much conflicting feedback.


I have to agree.

I see every expansion representing a redesign of certain key game elements and other old content and bugs are ignored.

It's particularly evident when it comes to class balance in pvp. Rather than continually focusing towards a goal of balance, it's all redesigned and we end up seeing bizarre and massive imbalances. And even when we point out these problems on beta/PTR, they are ignored.

Unstoppable warriors who have 100% uptime and silences/stuns? Warlocks who can two shot people? Healing specced priests who are no longer viable in pvp because they run out of mana and die?

Why does it take months to identify and fix problems like those?

Why is it so wrong to focus on a goal of fixing bugs and balancing pvp and making all specs viable in some way?
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90 Human Mage
4215
11/16/2012 04:43 PMPosted by Goldenclaw
The reason why you see feedback like this now is that in many ways WoW has wandered away from proper iterative design since Cataclysm. The idea of iterative design is you're gradually making improvements until you reach the ideal state. However in WoW changes tend to leap from one extreme to the other. That's why you get so much conflicting feedback.


I have to agree.

I see every expansion representing a redesign of certain key game elements and other old content and bugs are ignored.

It's particularly evident when it comes to class balance in pvp. Rather than continually focusing towards a goal of balance, it's all redesigned and we end up seeing bizarre and massive imbalances. And even when we point out these problems on beta/PTR, they are ignored.

Unstoppable warriors who have 100% uptime and silences/stuns? Warlocks who can two shot people? Healing specced priests who are no longer viable in pvp because they run out of mana and die?

Why does it take months to identify and fix problems like those?

Why is it so wrong to focus on a goal of fixing bugs and balancing pvp and making all specs viable in some way?


I'm still completely in favor of instance-balancing. Where in a PvE environment stats, abilities, and traits behave differently than in PvP. It would require balancing each class and spec for two different environments and that takes extra resources. But simultaneous PvE and PvP balancing is like arguing Religion and Science, it just backfires.
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