Sick of Blizz Lies about hearing feedback

85 Troll Warrior
9400
11/13/2012 09:37 AMPosted by Librily
Where's the proof?


Flying in Azeroth
Instant Mail from Guildmates (with appropriate guild level)
Inviting Friends into Parties Across Realms
LFD/LFR
Goblin, Pandaren, Blood Elves Playable
Transmogrification
Worgen get 2 racial mounts

etc... etc... etc...
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7390
So Yandere,
if people disagree with your opinion they are by default wrong? I think you are absolutely wrong. By definition if ONE person thinks the grind is bad to get the gear they think is necessary to do what they want to do then, there is a problem. Now, if it is actually only one person it may be a problem blizzard should ignore. Obviously there are many more than one person that have a problem with the daily grind.

On a side note when did it become okay to have something that everyone acknowledges is a grind in a game? I thought games were supposed to be fun and challenging. I also thought that as you progressed and got better you got better gear to handle harder and harder challenges. What does it say about the game that the most challenging thing about the beginning gear progression is being able to keep my lunch down while doing the boring and repetitive tasks required?

In my opinion a happy medium needs to be found soon or a lot of people will just give up on this game until the next expansion. The people who like doing quests have pretty much done all of them. I am pretty sure the point of a reoccurring subscription model is dynamic content that will keep you entertained for extended periods of time. When I saw what was in the next patch the big draw they pointed at was MORE DAILY QUESTS! Woo Hoo just what everyone was asking for.
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90 Draenei Shaman
6775

No, it is a knee jerk reaction. You are not recognizing a problem, you are assuming there to be one.


I am not assuming anything.


I understand why people feel forced to do them. They feel forced because of the behaviours they learned in Cataclysm. It was easy to cap VP then, rep was trivial, and it was easy to gear out multiple characters. They are simply trying to do the same thing in MoP, and it's not working out. Had MoP been positioned after TBC or even WotLK, this would not be an issue. It's a short term problem while people adjust to the new game design. Which again is a reason why it's not a time to make rash decisions.


Ah yes, the stupid rep was trivial argument. Rep with tabard was only implemented in 4.0. 4.1 has no reps and 4.2 had rep with dailies like nowadays. Rep was not Cata's problem, not even close.
Its easier to gear characters now than in initial Cataclysm, so you fail again in trying to prove an argument.
This wuld be an issue had been launched in ANY stage, because th problem is not the timing, the problem is that its a stupid over rewarding system that forces people into doing things they dont want to.

NEVER ANY SYSTEM in wow was as rewarding as this is.


Nothings perfect, there's always room for improvement, I think that's what they're looking for. Jumping to a system with proven flaws isn't the best idea. Tabards make rep trivial. If the only way rep works is if it's trivial, then it shouldn't be in the game.


Its not a perfect or not perfect debate, its a this is worse than ever problem. They need to patch this system and the think of a better one for the next time.


What if subscriptions are going up? A lot of people turned off by the ease in progression late in Cata may be interested in MoP now.


Again, MoP is easier to gear than ANY previous expansion, that is not the problem. You dont even understand the problem. The problem is not about how difficult it is to gear up, the problem is the huge time commitment because you are forced to follow an overrewarding system.


Personally, I think this was the best change they've made. Players attitudes needed shifting as they slowly morphed from an attitude of working for the reward to expecting the reward regardless of effort. It's a painful process, but building a subscriber base of players focused on cheap thrills isn't the best business model. There's simply no brand loyalty in it.

Do I think the system is perfect? No.
Can it be improved? Yes.
Can part of that solution include instances? Certainly, just not tabards. Something like TBC rep specific dungeons on random drops would work better, without becoming vastly superior to dailies.


YOu are entitld to have your own opinion on the subject, i would love if you could at least understand the problem.

Tabards worked well in WotLK, and they werent the problem in Cata, since in Cata they were only relevant like the first 5 months of it. They were a lot better system than dailies, for sure, but a combined system could be even better.
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90 Draenei Shaman
6775
You fail to realize that daileis are not a separate progression path. Dailies rewards synergize with dungeons and raids. Therefore, those doing dungeons and raids are forced to do the dailies for those reward that sinergize with the paths they chose.

Dailies system is too rewarding, it like someone in real life telling you he will give you 1 millon dollars for going 5 weeks to 4 or 5 places and do mundane things. Its not a real option.
And since the daileis rewards heavily enhances your performance and rewards in other paths, its not really an optin either.


Pretty much everything in this game can have a synergistic effect with everything else you're doing to prepare for raiding if you do it all. Even PvPing now that PvP gear is on a par with PvE gear of the same ilvl for PvE purposes - does that mean you're requiring your entire raid team to PvP for conquest points each week too?

Where you set the bar at how much preparation outside the raid each week is needed is completely up to you and your group. If it's things you don't want to do, or don't have time to do, it's easy enough to just do without it. You just have to make choices and prioritize. "Doing everything doable for every upgrade possible" just isn't viable for the majority of players any more. You may not like it, but that's how it is now.


No not everything. NO system in the game have a sinergy as big as charms with raids hve and like valor gained by dungeons and access to valor gear by dailies have.

Its not about setting the bar, its about a bar being set for you, by over rewarding a system. Again, the choice is an illusion, it doesnt existss unless you decide to ignore the huge amount of rewards gated by rep, which is foolish.
Thats how the false choices work.
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85 Draenei Paladin
5605
At least know how the proper term?

At least learn how to SPEAK and TYPE English properly, m'kay? 12/13 85s in DS gear, over the course of two years. /derp

I swear my brain cells die a little each time I read one of your posts.


DS was around for like what 9 months? 2YEARS according to you?!?!?!...LMAO. Keep going....
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90 Goblin Shaman
10080
Daxx, after reading quite a bit of this thread, I just want to say, I'm so sorry you and the rest of the Blues have to deal with all of...this. There are a lot of rude, immature and irrational people on these forums and so many of them sound like you guys came to their house and dooked in their Wheaties.

I'm sure not saying I agree with all the game decisions or all the things you and your fellow Blues have to say. But, internet anonymity or not, you guys don't deserve to deal with this dreck.
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85 Draenei Paladin
5605
I'm sure if we were to take a poll, 50% will say Dailies are broken and 50% will say they are fine as it is....hmmm....I think I saw something similar on Nov 6th ;p
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90 Draenei Shaman
6775
11/20/2012 03:04 PMPosted by Jahnpawl
I'm sure if we were to take a poll, 50% will say Dailies are broken and 50% will say they are fine as it is....hmmm....I think I saw something similar on Nov 6th ;p


And im sure that the results will differ a lot, and most people would say they dont like dailies.

The last poll they did about which reps were people rising had most of the posts saying they were raising the valor ones because they were forced to.

Its really not relevant though, since those that dont like dailies ARE NOT asking them to be removed, they are asking for alternatives.
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90 Human Warlock
12895
No not everything. NO system in the game have a sinergy as big as charms with raids hve and like valor gained by dungeons and access to valor gear by dailies have.

Its not about setting the bar, its about a bar being set for you, by over rewarding a system. Again, the choice is an illusion, it doesnt existss unless you decide to ignore the huge amount of rewards gated by rep, which is foolish.
That's how the false choices work.


That only translates as "Rep grinds can't have nice stuff because I don't like rep grinds".

If they added extra-hard-mode dungeons that dropped epic gear and gave charms (something I'm personally quite happy with the idea of, although Blizz may not be), then by by your logic you'd still say "but the rep grind is still there and I feel I have to do that as well" as long as it was an option.
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90 Draenei Shaman
6775

That only translates as "Rep grinds can't have nice stuff because I don't like rep grinds".

If they added extra-hard-mode dungeons that dropped epic gear and gave charms (something I'm personally quite happy with the idea of, although Blizz may not be), then by by your logic you'd still say "but the rep grind is still there and I feel I have to do that as well" as long as it was an option.


NO, it translates to tying everything to a single system forces people into it. You have two choices, either you raid (LFR, normal or heroic), or you do dailies. Nothing else has a progression path.

EVERYTHING is tied to dailies, either by being tied to reputation of by being dailies rewards.

As long as its super rewarding (more than anything before MoP except for raids) and the only choice for those rewards, yes, i will continue to say they are forcing you into it, because they are.

There is a reason why they put all those rewards into that system, you know what is that reason? To "encourage" (force) people into doing a content that otherwise they wouldnt do.

You can deny it all you want, but its the truth.
Edited by Saanen on 11/20/2012 8:05 PM PST
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90 Undead Death Knight
7885
11/20/2012 08:05 PMPosted by Saanen
NO, it translates to tying everything to a single system forces people into it. You have two choices, either you raid (LFR, normal or heroic), or you do dailies. Nothing else has a progression path.


Sorry, I know this is going to sound sarcastic, but didn't you just say you have a choice, but argue that there is no choice? I'm confused.

There is a reason why they put all those rewards into that system, you know what is that reason? To "encourage" (force) people into doing a content that otherwise they wouldn't do.


I guess I am still not understanding this correctly, but Forced and Encourage sound like 2 different things. For example, I did not do ANY dailies today, so no one forced me to do them.

I also did not progress, but I am still not forced to do them. If your are saying that you are forced to do them if you wish to progress, then I thought you said in your first statement that you had a choice.

What I thought I understood the point from Blizzard s is that you can get gear by being real good, IE heroic raids, or you can get good gear over time, IE grinding.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
6530
I am reluctant to log in now to WOW because I am burned out by the dailies. Be it peer pressure from guild or competitiveness or even just to kill mobs in dailies, I have always felt the need to improve.

These days, the only thing that I will log in for, are the August Celestial dailies and will promptly log off when done. I have asked myself why the major shift in my play times and only one answer I have gotten is being burnt out. So much so that I do not wish to join LFD or even LFR or do fun dailies like Sky race.

Optional or not, dailies are there to entice players with rewards. Being honored or exalted doesn't make a difference as it's still a grind albeit the time difference needed.

It's like feeling Vanilla wow days all over again back when I was raiding MC. But the difference is I was 8 years younger. I have a family of my own now and World of Dailies isn't my definition of fun.

I will be cancelling my subscription with the pvp dailies in krasarang wilds looming in sight.

Have fun all.
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90 Draenei Shaman
6775

Sorry, I know this is going to sound sarcastic, but didn't you just say you have a choice, but argue that there is no choice? I'm confused.


You dont have a choice. You raid and do the dailies or you do the dailies.


I guess I am still not understanding this correctly, but Forced and Encourage sound like 2 different things. For example, I did not do ANY dailies today, so no one forced me to do them.

I also did not progress, but I am still not forced to do them. If your are saying that you are forced to do them if you wish to progress, then I thought you said in your first statement that you had a choice.

What I thought I understood the point from Blizzard s is that you can get gear by being real good, IE heroic raids, or you can get good gear over time, IE grinding.


Again, lets be clear. EVERYTHING in the game is optinal, the game itself is optional. Now, if you play the game its to progress.

Once we establish that you chose to play the game and you are playing it and stop with the "you can always not play" stupid argument, we get that everything is tied to a single system. Things that always were and things completely unrelated, everything is tied to that system, to "encourage" people into doign somehing they dont want.

No, if people dont want to do something, how do you "encourage" them to do it? YOu overreward that something, effectively putting people in the position of doing that something or missing a ton of rewards, which is a form of forcing people to do things.

The choice is an illusion after you chose to play.
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90 Draenei Shaman
6775
I am reluctant to log in now to WOW because I am burned out by the dailies. Be it peer pressure from guild or competitiveness or even just to kill mobs in dailies, I have always felt the need to improve.

These days, the only thing that I will log in for, are the August Celestial dailies and will promptly log off when done. I have asked myself why the major shift in my play times and only one answer I have gotten is being burnt out. So much so that I do not wish to join LFD or even LFR or do fun dailies like Sky race.

Optional or not, dailies are there to entice players with rewards. Being honored or exalted doesn't make a difference as it's still a grind albeit the time difference needed.

It's like feeling Vanilla wow days all over again back when I was raiding MC. But the difference is I was 8 years younger. I have a family of my own now and World of Dailies isn't my definition of fun.

I will be cancelling my subscription with the pvp dailies in krasarang wilds looming in sight.

Have fun all.


It saddens me that the game keeps loosing players because Blizzard cant realize in time what the real problems with their game are.
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90 Human Warrior
16760
11/20/2012 01:43 PMPosted by Saanen
Tabards worked well in WotLK, and they werent the problem in Cata, since in Cata they were only relevant like the first 5 months of it. They were a lot better system than dailies, for sure, but a combined system could be even better.


Imho, you are failing the see the problem from the other side. I understand your problem as this:

We used to have a quick way to get rep and rep rewards without the huge commitment so we could move on to other things.
Is that pretty close?

If so, I have this to say - THAT was the problem. It was so easy that rep was superfluous. We never did anything with rep except for Hodir in Wrath. We just threw on a tabard and it came naturally from playing the game. It was a byproduct and not a goal. I like that rep is now a goal again. I like that vp (the currency) is a byproduct.

We play the game, we get currency as a byproduct. We want to spend that currency we have to work to get factions to like us to sell their products to us.
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76 Worgen Death Knight
7020
Here are my suggestions regarding the reputation and dailies.

Behind these suggestions are these principles or goals:

Principle 1 - There shouldn't be just one way to gain rep for a faction, especially if it provides essential rewards like epic gear and profession recipes.

Principle 2 - One method of rep gain should not be too rewarding as compared to the other. However, strict equality is not required.

Principle 3 - Choosing to do more varied content should provide slightly more benefits.

Princeple 4: Getting people out in the world is preferable. But it should not be forced.

So, how to go about it? Here are my suggestions:

1. Instances provide rep gains for the faction they are associated with, but only on heroic difficulty.
Optional but recommended: There is a daily/weekly cap on the rep that can be gained this way.

2. Daily quests provide rep for the faction they are associated with.

The amount of rep provided is such that spending the same time doing both should provide similar, but not necessarily equal, rep gains. So, Golden Lotus will probably require you to do more than 1 heroic, but not August Celestials.

Valor Points: They remain same as they are now.
Elder Charms: They remain same as they are now. Perhaps dailies can give 3 instead of 2 per quest, if desired.

Why this would be good:

1. It provides people with options. They can choose how they want to gain rep. If you like heroics, do them. If you like dailies, do them. If you like both, like me, mix and enjoy :)

2. Both methods require similar amounts of time. None of them can be used to power up rep grinds. No, you cannot be Exalted in a couple of days.

3. It encourages, but doesn't force, people to go out in the world. How? If you just use LFD, you cannot control which heroic you get and so which rep you will gain. If you want control, make a group and then travel to the instance. You can choose either way. If you are doing dailies, then you are out in the world anyway. I see choices aplenty.

4. You are encouraged, but again not forced, to do both heroics and dailies. Why? Well, heroics are the fastest method to gain VP. If you are doing dailies for VP, well, it will take time. Also, if you completely ignore dailies, you will miss out on the Elder Charms. If you do a bit of both, you will get Charms as well as rep and also cap out your VP easier.

EDIT: Another suggestion - the Golden Lotus dailies are too much. Please, even I do not want to have to do 15-17 dailies for just one faction and almost the same rep as I got for a faction with just 5-6 dailies.
Edited by Bhasmasur on 11/21/2012 12:37 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
6775
11/21/2012 12:04 PMPosted by Khahan
Tabards worked well in WotLK, and they werent the problem in Cata, since in Cata they were only relevant like the first 5 months of it. They were a lot better system than dailies, for sure, but a combined system could be even better.


Imho, you are failing the see the problem from the other side. I understand your problem as this:

We used to have a quick way to get rep and rep rewards without the huge commitment so we could move on to other things.
Is that pretty close?

If so, I have this to say - THAT was the problem. It was so easy that rep was superfluous. We never did anything with rep except for Hodir in Wrath. We just threw on a tabard and it came naturally from playing the game. It was a byproduct and not a goal. I like that rep is now a goal again. I like that vp (the currency) is a byproduct.

We play the game, we get currency as a byproduct. We want to spend that currency we have to work to get factions to like us to sell their products to us.


But you see, before, you only had one byproduct.

Now, you have plenty (vp, charms, special items, etc).

Also, rep was not superflous, rep was just that, reputation. Earning reputation shoudl nto be considered content by itself, because its not. Reputation, even in real life, is ALWAYS a byproduct of doing something else. Even in MoP lore reputation is a byproduct of your desire to help the pandaren. In MoP lore, you are not doing all those things so that the different factions like you, the different factiosn like you BECAUSE you do all those things.

Its ok that reputation is a byproduct, it should be like that. When reputation is the main goal, then you have a problem.

Also, again, reputation wasnt a problem in Cata. Cata had problems during a long time, reputations were relevant ONLY in 4.0.
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