Hypocritical Blizzard Garalon Hotfix?

90 Worgen Warrior
10540
Blizzard has stated on many occasions before that they don't hotfix bosses midweek as it's unfair for the guilds that raid on the days before the hotfix. For example, heart of the wild change on Heroic Gara'jal wasn't implemented until the next raid week.

Well now we have 2 Garalon Hotfixes in the middle of the week. First his enrage timer is increased by a minute and now his mend leg ability is cast more often.

Why is this happening? It's pretty contradictory to what they've been saying.

Edit: Stone Guard Heroic + Normal also nerfed? (Jasper Chains are cast less)

Edit2: In regards to the Bashiok's post, thanks for the reply; however it is actually required to complete normal to unlock heroic modes. We raid on Tuesdays and Wednesdays and we literally spent 2-3 hours wiping to normal Garalon with 5% left on the enrage timer and those 2-3 hours could have been spent clearing the rest of the instance to actually unlock heroic mode.

With the advent of that nerf, we basically wasted a raid night whereas guilds who raid multiple nights or after Tuesday would be able to do the encounter in its nerfed form thus allowing them a lot more time to clear the instance and unlock heroic modes. I just feel like this all could have been fixed if the encounter was properly tested - I believe his health was doubled compared to the beta however was there no internal testing to actually see if his new enrage timer is obtainable in reasonable levels of gear?
Edited by Camirex on 11/1/2012 9:35 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
9925
They also said they didn't want to force people to do rep grinds with factions they don't care about for helm enchants.

Unfortunately, I've never cared about any faction the game has ever had.

They do a lot of things backwards.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11455
They also said they didn't want to force people to do rep grinds with factions they don't care about for helm enchants.

Unfortunately, I've never cared about any faction the game has ever had.

They do a lot of things backwards.

"Force"? Oh, but I thought you didn't NEED the best helmet enchant? I thought that was just a bonus!


your name is absolutely perfect for this post
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90 Dwarf Warlock
15195
normal
boss
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Community Manager
The hotfix list posted covers a pretty large window of time (October 26 - Nov 1, as stated). The Jasper Chains change on Stone Guard was made at the end of last week, and corrected the fact that the ability was being cast with roughly the same frequency on 10-player as on 25-player mode. This meant that an entire 10-player raid could quickly find themselves chained to each other, while a majority of a 25-player group would still have been unfettered after the same amount of time. That was never our intent.

Now, as for the Garalon hotfixes, the Mend Leg hotfix was made on Tuesday afternoon, before more than a few dozen people in the world had seen the encounter at all, and certainly before any guilds had defeated it. The berserk hotfix was enacted the following morning. Ultimately, both of these hotfixes were intended to bring the DPS requirement down to an appropriate level for a Normal mode encounter halfway through the zone. Normal mode encounters should be reasonably beatable using available Normal mode gear; we were seeing Heroic-caliber guilds with a significant number of ilvl 502 items (from Heroic Mogu’shan, and more powerful than the handful of 496 epics available from the first two bosses of Heart of Fear) struggling to meet the berserk timer on the fight. We made an adjustment accordingly, and we feel that Garalon remains a step up in difficulty from the prior two encounters in the zone.

Our rationale regarding avoiding midweek hotfixes that make a fight easier only applies to Heroic encounters: When a guild encounters a Heroic boss that seems excessively difficult, they may opt to defeat it on Normal and move on. If we make the fight easier midweek, they don’t have the option to go back and fight that easier version, and that can be frustrating and seem unfair. A Normal mode brick wall is a brick wall regardless, so there is no such potential unfairness.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
21745
thanks for the info
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90 Troll Priest
14820
Thanks for clearing that up Bashiok.

P.S you still never told me where you got that rainbow fountain statue thing on your desk you showed in a post a couple of years back.

Thats right, I STILL REMEMBER.
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Community Manager
Thanks for clearing that up Bashiok.

P.S you still never told me where you got that rainbow fountain statue thing on your desk you showed in a post a couple of years back.

Thats right, I STILL REMEMBER.


Creepy! ;) Got it from Goodwill for $2. Probably the best purchase I've ever made in my life.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
14385
The hotfixes were nice and all, but what about the numerous reports of the fact that he sometimes fails to die even when he's killed? My raid totally ran into a "Night of the Living Dead (Bug)" issue last night where his body died but his legs seemed to necromatically keep his body alive.

Never got credit for that either, but he's gone now x.x
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
6200
Thanks for clearing that up Bashiok.

P.S you still never told me where you got that rainbow fountain statue thing on your desk you showed in a post a couple of years back.

Thats right, I STILL REMEMBER.

Link?
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90 Night Elf Druid
15810
The hotfix list posted covers a pretty large window of time (October 26 - Nov 1, as stated). The Jasper Chains change on Stone Guard was made at the end of last week, and corrected the fact that the ability was being cast with roughly the same frequency on 10-player as on 25-player mode. This meant that an entire 10-player raid could quickly find themselves chained to each other, while a majority of a 25-player group would still have been unfettered after the same amount of time. That was never our intent.

Now, as for the Garalon hotfixes, the Mend Leg hotfix was made on Tuesday afternoon, before more than a few dozen people in the world had seen the encounter at all, and certainly before any guilds had defeated it. The berserk hotfix was enacted the following morning. Ultimately, both of these hotfixes were intended to bring the DPS requirement down to an appropriate level for a Normal mode encounter halfway through the zone. Normal mode encounters should be reasonably beatable using available Normal mode gear; we were seeing Heroic-caliber guilds with a significant number of ilvl 502 items (from Heroic Mogu’shan, and more powerful than the handful of 496 epics available from the first two bosses of Heart of Fear) struggling to meet the berserk timer on the fight. We made an adjustment accordingly, and we feel that Garalon remains a step up in difficulty from the prior two encounters in the zone.

Our rationale regarding avoiding midweek hotfixes that make a fight easier only applies to Heroic encounters: When a guild encounters a Heroic boss that seems excessively difficult, they may opt to defeat it on Normal and move on. If we make the fight easier midweek, they don’t have the option to go back and fight that easier version, and that can be frustrating and seem unfair. A Normal mode brick wall is a brick wall regardless, so there is no such potential unfairness.


Oh no, all those 10man groups all stacked together. It must be hell to see with that many people. LOL.
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90 Troll Priest
14820
Thanks for clearing that up Bashiok.

P.S you still never told me where you got that rainbow fountain statue thing on your desk you showed in a post a couple of years back.

Thats right, I STILL REMEMBER.

Link?


I don't have the link, i just remember what it looks like because I've been sitting here biding my time planning to break into Blizzard HQ and steal it.
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90 Worgen Warrior
10540
In regards to the Bashiok's post, thanks for the reply; however it is actually required to complete normal to unlock heroic modes. We raid on Tuesdays and Wednesdays and we literally spent 2-3 hours wiping to normal Garalon with 5% left on the enrage timer and those 2-3 hours could have been spent clearing the rest of the instance to actually unlock heroic mode.

With the advent of that nerf, we basically wasted a raid night whereas guilds who raid multiple nights or after Tuesday would be able to do the encounter in its nerfed form thus allowing them a lot more time to clear the instance and unlock heroic modes. I just feel like this all could have been fixed if the encounter was properly tested - I believe his health was doubled compared to the beta however was there no internal testing to actually see if his new enrage timer is obtainable in reasonable levels of gear?

(As posted above)
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90 Dwarf Warlock
15195
I may be missing it, but these hotfixes aren't being documented very well, as they're popping up on forums before blizzard officially announces them, any chance you could start posting hotfixes (at least when they're important to raid encounters) as you actually implement them?
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90 Orc Rogue
8385
11/01/2012 08:13 PMPosted by Layuth
Oh no, all those 10man groups all stacked together. It must be hell to see with that many people. LOL.


Jasper, Cobalt, Jade first week of Heroics was a complete nightmare for 10m.

But anyhoo don't see the problem with reducing Garalons Enrage timer or Mending legs because the fight requires a steep amount of dps and a lot of guilds were failing due to Enrage timer. Honestly I think there'll be an increase to Wind Lord Mel'jarak's Enrage timer as well due to the fights steep dps requirements. There's a lot of tweaking I'm sure Blizz are looking into.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
15195
11/01/2012 09:39 PMPosted by Eisbrècher
But anyhoo don't see the problem with reducing Garalons Enrage timer or Mending legs because the fight requires a steep amount of dps and a lot of guilds were failing due to Enrage timer. Honestly I think there'll be an increase to Wind Lord Mel'jarak's Enrage timer as well due to the fights steep dps requirements. There's a lot of tweaking I'm sure Blizz are looking into.


God I wish they switch blade lord and wind lord's titles,

but that fight has a lot of creative ways to gain DPS time on, it feels very fair, after having a sub 0.6% wipe on it, with a lot of sloppiness, it's still balanced right close to garalon, I'd actually say it's a little easier overall.
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90 Orc Rogue
8385
God I wish they switch blade lord and wind lord's titles,

but that fight has a lot of creative ways to gain DPS time on, it feels very fair, after having a sub 0.6% wipe on it, with a lot of sloppiness, it's still balanced right close to garalon, I'd actually say it's a little easier overall.


We had a 1.2% wipe because of Enrage 2nd attempt lol, but yea I agree it's a lot easier than Garalon. Depends how you look at it though, for my guild it was fairly simple once we got rid of all the kinks, issues etc. but for a guild that's just finished Normal Mode MSV as an example there's a steep dps requirement that a lot of guilds won't be able to meet.
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66 Goblin Rogue
550
I think the original "blizzard said this" statement was said in the context of heroic modes, where small changes can have a large effect on the the first couple kills. This fight was definitely tuned pretty high on normal mode originally, but it still wasn't anything a guild capable of making heroic progress couldn't get by (proven by the fact that said guilds got by it).

One of the biggest reasons a mid week change matters is because the guilds that push the fastest heroic progression are made of people who are the most livid about a nerf or change to a fight in the middle of racing for a top kill. When they express this, their feelings end up trickling down to a ton of people who follow or participate in hardcore progression and then it becomes a giant crap storm that, in reality, only affects a small portion of the player base.

These kind of changes do give a slight advantage to guilds who raid later in the week or put in some more time. Any guild who is serious about unlocking heroic modes will raid more than just a Tuesday though, and it's a good thing that Blizzard made the change as quickly as they did for those guilds. Observing the data and making this change could also have an impact on how heroic modes are tuned, which in the long term, means they've improved progression through this tier as a whole. Ideally, the playing field would be ideal for everyone at every point in it, but when something is blatantly broken, fixing it when the stakes aren't as high is the best time to do it.

I'd like to think that, had normal mode Rag had the same final phase that heroic did, the geyser triangle wouldn't have been a viable strat by the time heroic modes were released (and that his health would have been reduced slightly to accommodate that).
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90 Dwarf Death Knight
17655
11/01/2012 09:52 PMPosted by Eisbrècher
We had a 1.2% wipe because of Enrage 2nd attempt lol, but yea I agree it's a lot easier than Garalon. Depends how you look at it though, for my guild it was fairly simple once we got rid of all the kinks, issues etc. but for a guild that's just finished Normal Mode MSV as an example there's a steep dps requirement that a lot of guilds won't be able to meet.


the 4th boss of a half tier higher raid being harder than the 6th boss of the earlier one seems pretty well balanced, the people who are just now clearing normal will, need to have some small roadblocks through the next tier, I don't tihnk Windlord will be a major one, I think Garalon will still hold groups will poor coordination back for a bit.

11/02/2012 12:07 AMPosted by Nereo
Any guild who is serious about unlocking heroic modes
'

super serious guilds are already 6/6, but they also usually run 10 mans on Monday nights to finish the tier if they miss.
Edited by Postonforums on 11/2/2012 12:11 AM PDT
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