Forcing players to AFK until they are geared

90 Blood Elf Paladin
9065
lol... oh OP. You are the reason why honor is so easy to gain these days and AFK'ers even exist.
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I realize it's not for everyone, but I find this particularly compelling. Sure, it's fun on occasion feeling like a wrecking ball, but nothing matches the rush of taking down an obviously more well-geared player via superior skill or tactics.


I rarely encounter those situations now due to the large amounts of bots on my team =(. Normally the enemy team is steamrolling us because we don't have real players.


Is that what we're blaming losses on nowadays? Bots? I'm not saying it's not possible....but I'm used to hearing about bots being used for more repetitive things like resource mining, fishing, annoying people in the trade channel, etc etc....

EDIT: Also, I don't feel like it's THAT hard to earn honor points. I've bought a few pieces for the latest season already and I didn't really start doing BGs in MoP until maybe a week ago. I was too busy questing, exploring, farming, building rep...
Edited by Eliesa on 11/9/2012 2:39 PM PST
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90 Tauren Monk
18385
We are constantly working to ensure that PvP is fair and fun, and it this is an important issue to us.

It is a great help to us when players use the reporting tools that we've included in the game, though. It seems that use of the AFK reporting feature has dropped off considerably, which is unfortunate, because it really does play a direct and active role in our investigations. Ultimately, cynicism doesn't help us catch the offenders. And yes, I realize that bots will clear the AFK flag by getting into combat. Rest assured that the reports can still help.


The system is incredibly flawed short-term. I have no idea how you actually handle individual reports through the AFK feature with your investigation, but I can say that at the moment, near-immediate results are rare even when large groups of people do report.

Bots are far more sophisticated than when this system was added. Some actually play now - and by "play" I mean run in circles spamming frostbolt on the first player it sees. It's enough to keep them from being kicked, even with repeated reports.

I could be wrong, but it seems if someone gets flagged for AFK twice in a battleground and receive the debuff, they get kicked without warning. This helps, but we still have to deal upwards of 5+ minutes with bots. Getting them in battlegrounds that can't even last more than, say, 20 minutes is a huge hassle. I'm constantly telling people to "report X" because I'm always on the lookout for the bots, and I make damn sure to run off and get them stuck off at some corner of the map when I get followed.

I can't pretend to actually know what your system involves, but it needs changes. The amount of bots is rising, and the ability to deal with them as players is not. You really need to give players with a good history of battleground participation more merit in their votes. My friend and I battleground constantly. I've only left battlegrounds a handful of times over the YEARS I've been playing, and I've never actually went away-from-keyboard without an emergency. Since is very similar in that regard, the two of us should be able to, say, flag a person for afk in a 10-man. No, we should not have the ability to instantly kick them, but to start triggering the countdown. Obviously if they were actual players they can cancel it safely. Make these false reports count against us too if you went down a system like this.

My point is, I'm getting tired of seeing 10+ bots in 40 man battlegrounds, and 2+ bots in 10-mans. It's not really feasible to win battlegrounds when a significant percentage of our team is not even playing. The worst part is, in my case, I rarely ever see the same bot! I probably see upwards of 30-50 unique afkers each night of PvP. It's gotten way out of hand, and you need to step up your game one way or another. :/

Is that what we're blaming losses on nowadays? Bots? I'm not saying it's not possible....but I'm used to hearing about bots being used for more repetitive things like resource mining, fishing, annoying people in the trade channel, etc etc....


Queue for a random battleground at any hour of the day. No matter what battleground you get - I can almost guarantee you at least one person will either sit in the spawn area, auto-follow random people, or run in predictable circles occasionally stopping to buff... nothing. Or heal nothing. Or cast a single spell at an enemy then stand there until death.

Yes, losses can be blamed on afkers/bots when they make battlegrounds 10v10 to 10v9, 8, 7, or less.

They ruin the market, there's no doubt about that. But they also destroy PvP.
Edited by Korkol on 11/9/2012 2:42 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Warrior
15030
11/09/2012 01:22 PMPosted by Daxxarri
It is a great help to us when players use the reporting tools that we've included in the game, though. It seems that use of the AFK reporting feature has dropped off considerably, which is unfortunate, because it really does play a direct and active role in our investigations. Ultimately, cynicism doesn't help us catch the offenders. And yes, I realize that bots will clear the AFK flag by getting into combat. Rest assured that the reports can still help.


Someone else made this comment, but I'll just paraphrase it.
Blizzard should actually pay me $15 a month to police these AFK'ers.
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90 Human Warlock
12320
Blizzard have worked very hard in making high-end PvE accessible to everyone, so I don't understand how or why PvP has such a steep curve.


the so-called steep learning curve comes from the player vs player aspect, an not player vs environment/game-mechanics. if you want experience balanced pvp, go play some guild wars. they give you free pvp gear, and pit you against players in the same gear. but if you still think ppl dont manage to complain, you prob should get youself a kick of cyanide. might be better for you.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8620
11/09/2012 02:40 PMPosted by Yahzarah
Blizzard have worked very hard in making high-end PvE accessible to everyone, so I don't understand how or why PvP has such a steep curve.


the so-called steep learning curve comes from the player vs player aspect, an not player vs environment/game-mechanics. if you want experience balanced pvp, go play some guild wars. they give you free pvp gear, and pit you against players in the same gear. but if you still think ppl dont manage to complain, you prob should get youself a kick of cyanide. might be better for you.


I think the current system in place is pretty fair actually. This is because in this game there has always been a counter class.

Aside from that as far as GW2 goes, well the pvp was fun for maybe a couple day's but they had much bigger class balance issues than wow by far and the amount of moves you could use at any one time was too simple for some classes. I thought the zones and the quest design was excellent though, blizzard could definately use some of those idea's they had for questing.
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90 Undead Warrior
10950
11/09/2012 11:41 AMPosted by Chunlî
Getting beat down in a few hits is never fun in PVP. Dont let me hear "But I try anyways" because that is just crap. What's fun about trying when you die in a few hits anyways? REMOVE HONOR CAP BEFORE WE REACH MAX LEVEL ALREADY!


You have a base 40% resistance to player damage, and there is crafted gear waiting for you in your local AH, or from a chosen profession - which will easily put you in the 50% range.

You can also run pve dungeons for justice and convert to honor at 375:250.

There are multiple ways to get into pvp and feel like you're contributing.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
7890

Edit: Somewhat off-topic, I'm already regretting glibly using the term 'speed bump'. It's much more than that - getting in the face of the enemy, playing smart, using interrupts, and generally being a nuisance can actually have a significant effect on a battle, even if the player falls in the process.


Actually in my case speed bump is about right LMAO. I know the graveyards better than the BGs.
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89 Blood Elf Priest
9030
11/09/2012 02:49 PMPosted by Adachi
Getting beat down in a few hits is never fun in PVP. Dont let me hear "But I try anyways" because that is just crap. What's fun about trying when you die in a few hits anyways? REMOVE HONOR CAP BEFORE WE REACH MAX LEVEL ALREADY!


You have a base 40% resistance to player damage, and there is crafted gear waiting for you in your local AH, or from a chosen profession - which will easily put you in the 50% range.

You can also run pve dungeons for justice and convert to honor at 375:250.

There are multiple ways to get into pvp and feel like you're contributing.


It is all insignificant against the gear rewards for high rated players.

I understand the need to reward "winners". But quite frankly you are slowly going to lose people as they drop behind the arms race.

This expansion dropped a LOT of people at the start.

PvP has been an absolute disaster.
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80 Pandaren Monk
6650
Guilds are strugling to put RBG teams together because the time required to gear up a PvP character to a point where they even have a semblence of a chance, is completely prohibitive.


Shocking! It takes time to gear up for PvP! Just like PvE! Who would of thought..

How is it prohibitive? I could say the very same thing about gearing up to raid there buddy..

Seriously however, i disagree with your statement or rather your generalization. What kind of guilds? Average joe's with little or no pvp gear? It's easier to think PvP as its' own game. It takes time to gear up. It takes skill to gear up. Thinking you can walk into Rbg's or Arena with little or no gear/experience and expect to win is laughable.
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89 Blood Elf Priest
9030
11/09/2012 03:45 PMPosted by Wuutang
Guilds are strugling to put RBG teams together because the time required to gear up a PvP character to a point where they even have a semblence of a chance, is completely prohibitive.


Shocking! It takes time to gear up for PvP! Just like PvE! Who would of thought..

How is it prohibitive? I could say the very same thing about gearing up to raid there buddy..

Seriously however, i disagree with your statement or rather your generalization. What kind of guilds? Average joe's with little or no pvp gear? It's easier to think PvP as its' own game. It takes time to gear up. It takes skill to gear up. Thinking you can walk into Rbg's or Arena with little or no gear/experience and expect to win is laughable.


You can pretend that it is skill all you like, but my mage was doing 10K damage with a pyroblast in battlegrounds.

It is just pointless me being in there.
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90 Human Hunter
5210
11/09/2012 01:20 PMPosted by Kongfuzi


I pvped in classic. I pvped a lot.

Depending on which class you were, which class you were fighting, and how good you were, you could be far more than a speed bump. My massively geared rogue could get fairly easily kited to death and murdered by hinters and frost mages in much worse gear if they had a clue, but then my crap geared hunter could kite most melee for days and laugh at their inability to get close enough to actually one-shot me.


PvP right now feels like classic pvp in blues and MC gear vs T3 geared teams. Depending on which class you play... The BoE gear does next to nothing it seems when it comes to stopping that from happening.

Some of the changes I find very strange. For example hunters kept all of their get out of melee range abilities while no longer needing to get out of melee range. Why? They had a giant weakness that was melee range, and they had a bunch of tricks to stay out of melee range. That giant weakness is gone but they still have all those tricks to get away.


probably because kiting is a thing of the past which i miss. Oh and let me know the next time you have a rifle in your hands if you cant shoot it at the target 1 foot in front of you. The gun must get jammed if trying to shooting anthing 4ft away or closer i guess. Cause that makes alot of sense! LETS NOT LET HUNTERS SHOOT AT POINT BLANK BECAUSE SHOOTING AT POINT BLANK IS UNREALISTIC!
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80 Pandaren Monk
6650
11/09/2012 03:52 PMPosted by Gudveir


Shocking! It takes time to gear up for PvP! Just like PvE! Who would of thought..

How is it prohibitive? I could say the very same thing about gearing up to raid there buddy..

Seriously however, i disagree with your statement or rather your generalization. What kind of guilds? Average joe's with little or no pvp gear? It's easier to think PvP as its' own game. It takes time to gear up. It takes skill to gear up. Thinking you can walk into Rbg's or Arena with little or no gear/experience and expect to win is laughable.


You can pretend that it is skill all you like, but my mage was doing 10K damage with a pyroblast in battlegrounds.

It is just pointless me being in there.

If you feel that way, that's fine there's the door. Otherwise I'd love to have your extra polymorph and CC.

Yes, SKILL is very important, but sadly is something you're not capable of understanding.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6555
11/09/2012 01:29 PMPosted by Daxxarri
Please tell me you're joking.


Not, I'm not joking, nor were the other players who suggested it as one of several options. It exists, and it can help plug gaps in gear while earning points for better gear. If the concern is walking into PvP and getting steamrolled until you can earn Honor or Conquest gear, it's still a step in the right direction.

Edit: Somewhat off-topic, I'm already regretting glibly using the term 'speed bump'. It's much more than that - getting in the face of the enemy, playing smart, using interrupts, and generally being a nuisance can actually have a significant effect on a battle, even if the player falls in the process.


Acting as a distraction can be beneficial to the team. HOWEVER, you seem to forget that simply dying over and over again gives you less honor than those with gear who steamroll over you. This allows those with more gear to gain honor faster, out gearing the already gear gimped players by an even larger margin. So it takes those with less gear longer to get new gear than it does for those with more gear? That's messed up.
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80 Pandaren Monk
6650
Also to point out, having a baseline 40% is huge bonus versus the old 0%.
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90 Draenei Paladin
8255
11/09/2012 03:52 PMPosted by Gudveir


Shocking! It takes time to gear up for PvP! Just like PvE! Who would of thought..

How is it prohibitive? I could say the very same thing about gearing up to raid there buddy..

Seriously however, i disagree with your statement or rather your generalization. What kind of guilds? Average joe's with little or no pvp gear? It's easier to think PvP as its' own game. It takes time to gear up. It takes skill to gear up. Thinking you can walk into Rbg's or Arena with little or no gear/experience and expect to win is laughable.


You can pretend that it is skill all you like, but my mage was doing 10K damage with a pyroblast in battlegrounds.

It is just pointless me being in there.


I seriously wouldn't say that it's pointless for people undergeared to be in a BG. Sure, the better geared player can do more numbers wise, but a well played class in general can be a greater benefit than a decked out bad one.

When I used to PvP a lot on my Rogue, starting it (bad gear) I didn't expect to kill anyone at all with resilience. Which was the case, I was hitting them with pillows basically, surprised it didn't heal them. However, it doesn't change the effectiveness of your effect abilities. Snares, stuns, incapacitates, etc. Even if it lead to my inevitable death, I could still usually lock down any given player for a long period of time. Most effective when used against healers and such.

[quote="70057666965"]
Acting as a distraction can be beneficial to the team. HOWEVER, you seem to forget that simply dying over and over again gives you less honor than those with gear who steamroll over you. This allows those with more gear to gain honor faster, out gearing the already gear gimped players by an even larger margin. So it takes those with less gear longer to get new gear than it does for those with more gear? That's messed up.


I think that's a little situational and depends on exactly what you're trying to do. If you're extremely poor geared, and strictly melee regardless of spec (like a Warrior), you probably will inevitably die. It doesn't mean you can't take one for the team (ie Team Player). Hell, I highly doubt you will ALWAYS die depending on what your goal is in attacking.

I'd personally just seek to be an irritant to the opposite side if I'm not killed beforehand. Stun/interrupt/cc/etc then run away. If you expect to kill anyone, you won't. But you can at least help your team do this as best as possible.

People other than strictly melee classes (or with enough tools like Rogues) won't be killed anywhere near as often if played smart. Again, don't expect to take people on directly, know your limitations and utilize the abilities/spells you have to help the OTHER player kill your target. You tend to survive long enough to get said honor that way. As always, there are exceptions but it's a general rule that does work well.
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