Forcing players to AFK until they are geared

90 Human Hunter
12695
11/09/2012 01:05 PMPosted by Howlyberry
There is crafted PvP gear that can help players get off on the right foot.


Please tell me you're joking.

Not only is the crafted pvp gear pretty much garbage to begin with (it'll turn you from a wet paper towel to a wet paper bag) but it's not exceedingly common from my experience. You geniuses had the bright idea to make that trash cost harmonies to buy. Good luck finding a crafter who effectively threw away 8 harmonies to get all of the pieces you'll need instead of using them to make useful gear for themselves or sell in making gear useful for others (476 epics ring a bell?).

It's absolutely staggering how out of touch blizz is with reality in this game sometimes.


I bought my 450 gear, and on my plate wearers I used 8 SoH to buy the recipes and make their gear too. Considering the honor stuff is 458...only slighty better, I would rather spend my extra honor on off pieces, trinkets and BoAs for alts while farming CP for the "real" pvp gear.

Also next patch that pvp 450 gear should auto upgrade to the next ilvl grouping like in Cata, so the recipes have longevity in being used over the course of an xpac.
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90 Draenei Shaman
13705
Just tell yourself you are holding an orb in Temple of Kotmogu.
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90 Goblin Shaman
9310
use 1-2 employees to do bg's and ban botters. the message would be sent.

they don't even need to do it everyday. so long as there is a chance to get a long ban for botting, i think it will be reduced significantly.
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use 1-2 employees to do bg's and ban botters. the message would be sent.

they don't even need to do it everyday. so long as there is a chance to get a long ban for botting, i think it will be reduced significantly.


It's difficult to tell who's botting sometimes. The worst offenders are using software which mimics what real players do, and in some cases, plays BETTER than a real player would. Other players are semi afk, in that they pick a place to sit and guard objectives and only engage when it's necessary, while they watch TV or a movie or something.

It's rare to see players using the old afk bot that just sits there and casts a spell occasionally or follows a player around, and those are the most obvious bots.

But again, this all just ignores the very basic problem which exists: Blizzard refuses to acknowledge whether or not content is actually fun. I have a feeling they ignore it because if they actually paid attention to the fun people aren't having, they would be forced to spend a lot of time fixing things that are broken about this game.

It's becoming increasingly obvious that this game is well past the point Blizzard ever thought it would reach, and now they are just nursing it with new content every 6 months while they wait for the next big thing to come out.

I'm willing to bet a group of drunk 15 year olds could come up with a much better game design, and I don't think Blizzard would deny it.
Edited by Baeloro on 11/10/2012 12:31 AM PST
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90 Worgen Hunter
0
11/09/2012 11:45 AMPosted by Christhemity
Everything dies in a few hits. Regardless of gear.


You haven't met a Holy Paladin or a Restoration Druid have you?
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90 Pandaren Monk
10990
I don't know much about bots, but couldn't they just turn off /follow in BGs? Isn't that how the bots know where the fight is? They follow someone who's not a bot?
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Blizzard have worked very hard in making high-end PvE accessible to everyone, so I don't understand how or why PvP has such a steep curve.

The minute you hit 90 you have to compete against maximum geared players in battlegrounds. It is similar to having to immediately face heroic end game bosses without having any chance to gear up first.

Very frustrating and it puts casual and PvE focused players off PvP. It is doubly frustrating because world PvP is becomoing more of a feature and PvEers have no chance against these max geared PvPers.

The PvP game is an absolute disaster because Blizzard have some pipe-dream about making WoW a sport. They need to focus on creating a genuine progression in PvP, so that people coming into the game are matched against people their own level and not dominated by over-geared players.

Guilds are strugling to put RBG teams together because the time required to gear up a PvP character to a point where they even have a semblence of a chance, is completely prohibitive.

Until they design a better system for PvP they will have players Afking or just wandering around in a BG, because they are absolutely no use, even if they do fight.


I got to this post and couldn't wait any longer. This is one of the main reasons I rarely PvP since the advent of resilience (and now pvp power). But I do have to disagree on one point. It is not a curve, there is no curve. You get thrown in to the wolves from the start. I don't know how to fix the problem. Ideas have been kicked around about item level matching and stuff. I don't know if that would work or not. What I can say, is it is no fun having no control over your character (fear, freeze, stun) and then get 1-3 shotted. It is no fun to die time and time again getting nowhere. It is no fun being a speed bump. It is no fun being camped in your own graveyard. In short, unless you focus like a hardcore raider on PvP, PvP is not fun.

I know I'm gonna get blasted for this, but it is why I really enjoyed twink pvp (and decided I'm gonna go back to it). The gear is pretty accessible to everyone especially if you have a max level toon (or friends). When EVERYONE is geared or near the same gear level, PvP is fun. You do have to fight and scratch and claw to down the person you are fighting. You do have to have skill. You do have to rely on numbers and the skills of others to help pull you out of a bad situation. I'm pretty bad at PvP myself. But I always felt that rush when I was able to finally down that jerk who was geared a little better or just as good as me. Casual PvPers don't have that chance... they are always the speed bump. I like the feeling, but don't want to put in the time of a raider just to have equal footing when I step into PvP for a bit of light fun.

I will say this. I miss vanilla days on this count. PvE raiders could walk in and be on equal footing with PvP geared toons. The sets didn't have resilience or pvp power. You could walk into a raid or dungeon with the gear you had won from PvP and vice versa. I don't see why it can't be that way again. My idea for making it work... Change the way all spells and abilities work in PvP instead instead of changing the gear. It would be A LOT more work for the devs, but it would make solving PvP balance issues very easy and it would allow those who already put in a ton of time in the game able to experience both PvP and PvE without pigeonholing them to one or the other.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
3765
11/09/2012 01:22 PMPosted by Daxxarri
It seems that use of the AFK reporting feature has dropped off considerably, which is unfortunate, because it really does play a direct and active role in our investigations.


Reporting has been going on for years and no apparent effect from our help. The problem gets worse despite repeateds and almost endless reports. We feel like there were filed in a secure round metal cylinder for safekeeping, even though you say they are needed and wanted.

If i keep sticking fingers into the dike and i dont see anyone repair people coming to mop up the leaking water or fix the cracks, why should i stay? If apparently no one cares, why should i? Actions speak MUCH louder than words. Right now, Blizzard's actions against bots seems like... well, i think you know how many of your subscribers feel about bots and we would like to see more action and less words.
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90 Night Elf Mage
14095
There is crafted PvP gear that can help players get off on the right foot.


Not really. If someone in the crafted pvp gear fought me I could just breathe and they would fall over.

Gearing up is a pointless waste of time huge masses of people don't want to do. The devs need to get it through their thick skulls. Leave the gearing up to pve which is all pve is about. But pvp has NOTHING to do with gearing up. Get rid of it
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I read more :-)

When it comes to non-RBGs, I'm all for standardizing iLvl for all players when they enter. Take gear discrepancy right off the table. Put fun first. It's a GAME after all.

Anyone with skill shouldn't complain about this.

Then what's the point of honor you say? You still need gear outside of the BG. Nothing changes there. And you'll need that gear for RBGs too. But hopping into a pug BG should be about fun first and foremost. Not about suffering through or "doing the best you can with what you got".

As for the argument that even the most shabbily geared person can have an impact on a BG with their CCs, I agree. Under-geared players definitely impact my game by increasing how much honor and HKs I get when I see them on the battlefield.


^This

I'm all about making RBG's free for alls. You know when you go in your are stepping in with the best geared people and the most coordination. You are stepping into the equivalent of a PvE raid (the real ones, not the LFR's). So what do you do? You gear for it, you practice for it, you run with set groups for it.

Regular BG's should not be this way. There should be a curve, not a cliff.

In response to the bots, I don't pvp much so I can't comment with much authority. However, a system to inform players that their reports do matter and to show them the rewards for those policing efforts (which you appear to not want to do yourself and thus rely on the players) should be implemented. I've seen several good suggestions. My suggestion is blizzard take those and run with them.
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90 Night Elf Mage
14095
Plenty of my friends don't need to learn how to play the game, they have to spend enermous amounts of time levelling up and gearing up when that isn't what they want to do so instead they either quit the game or make me do it. Thanks blizz
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11/10/2012 12:47 AMPosted by Shalhoub
I don't know much about bots, but couldn't they just turn off /follow in BGs? Isn't that how the bots know where the fight is? They follow someone who's not a bot?


Those 'bots' are not real bots. They are basically a macro that auto targets the nearest friendly player and auto follows them, powered by an auto clicking program. Both are impossible to detect by Warden, but completely obvious to any non-afk player.

Actual BOTS are sophisticated programs that are designed by 3rd party companies, and the good ones will do everything from leveling, to dungeons, to professions, to BGs. No, they don't rely on auto following other players, instead, you will have a hard time even telling that the character is being botted. There are subtle signs, but if you're not looking for them, you won't notice.

11/10/2012 12:51 AMPosted by Rhinhart
But I do have to disagree on one point. It is not a curve, there is no curve. You get thrown in to the wolves from the start. I don't know how to fix the problem. Ideas have been kicked around about item level matching and stuff.


Introducing 40% base resilience for all players regardless of gear was supposed to work towards resolving this issue. The problem, however, is that Blizzard added more secondary stats to gear (there are two stats now, instead of one) AND they added pvp power on top of that. Pvp gear was already lower ilvl than pve gear, but now with the additional secondary stats and the pvp power, it's extremely imbalanced for pvp. I can get on my level 90 druid who has 61% damage reduction from resilience (including the base 40%), and then I have 36.76% increased damage from pvp power.

I'm not a rocket scientist, nor am I even fully geared in Malevolent gear (only 3 pieces + weapon so far), and I can already tell that pvp power in it's current incarnation is a terrible idea. Basically, the near 40% pvp power I have, completely negates the base 40% pvp resilience that all players have. So realistically, most players have between 0-20% effective resilience. The ones who have no pvp gear yet, because they just hit 90, are walking into pvp without a chance in the world.

Pvp power completely negates resilience, putting us back to where we were before 5.0.4. Independently, pvp power would solve the problem of pve gear being relevant in pvp, and 40% base resilience would solve the problem of new 90s getting steamrolled in pvp. But TOGETHER, those solutions cancel each other out. It's redundant, and it's not good game design.

In order to solve the problem, Blizzard would have to scale back the amount of offense stats found on pvp gear to compensate for the amount of damage pvp power provides (most likely completely removing one of the secondary stats which were added) OR nerf the amount of damage pvp power adds while increasing the amount of base resilience everyone has.

Left as is, however, is just going to make things worse than they've ever been, especially when 5.1 rolls around and introduces gear buffing with points.

11/10/2012 12:51 AMPosted by Rhinhart
I know I'm gonna get blasted for this, but it is why I really enjoyed twink pvp (and decided I'm gonna go back to it). The gear is pretty accessible to everyone especially if you have a max level toon (or friends). When EVERYONE is geared or near the same gear level, PvP is fun. You do have to fight and scratch and claw to down the person you are fighting. You do have to have skill. You do have to rely on numbers and the skills of others to help pull you out of a bad situation.


I completely agree with this. Unfortunately, Blizzard has recently proposed a solution to 'disparity' in low level pvp, by scaling everyone's stats and levels up to those of the highest person in the BG. This solution is the wrong approach, for several reasons. Gear disparity exists because Blizzard has utterly ignored low level gear since Vanilla. The vast majority of gear below level 60 has little or no stat value compared to BoA gear, and thus does not represent a viable or attractive solution to players as they level.

The old gear is complete garbage, especially when you are looking at the old pvp rewards. This gear needs to be updated to reflect MoP itemization, and new gear rewards needs to be added, so that a player's only option of being competitive DO NOT lie with grinding massive amount of BGs for BoA gear. BoA gear is great because it levels with you, retains the enchants you put on it across characters, and has updated itemization, but it shouldn't be the only viable option for levelers in pvp. It's time Blizzard actually pay attention to low level gear rewards, and fix them (like they should have in Cata, when they were redoing all the low level content, or in MoP, when they were redoing SM and Scholomance, adding in brand new low level quest rewards).

11/10/2012 12:51 AMPosted by Rhinhart
I will say this. I miss vanilla days on this count. PvE raiders could walk in and be on equal footing with PvP geared toons. The sets didn't have resilience or pvp power. You could walk into a raid or dungeon with the gear you had won from PvP and vice versa. I don't see why it can't be that way again.


Back in Vanilla, the top pvpers were raiders because no other gear could compare to T3. So if you couldn't get a raid spot, you weren't going to be competitive in pvp. Even HWL and GM gear was not competitive with raiding gear. In effect, things were just as bad back then, as they are now. Nothing has changed to fix the disparity, so I disagree with you on this point.
Edited by Baeloro on 11/10/2012 1:35 AM PST
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90 Worgen Druid
9735
This thread is full of fail.

AS soon as I hit 90 on this druid, I bought the PvP crafted belt, and the PvP crafted bracers, I farmed honor and within a day I had 2pc + trinkets/rings. You get more honor from being actively doing something in a bg, be it supporting INC calls in AB, or back capping in AV.

People are just lazy, please uninstall or move on. I agree with the blue. You have every tool at your disposal.

Note, I also lvl'd a hunter to 90, and got her fully pvp geared as well. However, hunters are "lol" at the moment, so it was mute for me to even say it.
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90 Undead Warrior
10950
11/09/2012 04:30 PMPosted by Positron
Crafted is a waste of time and money.


Wrong.
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So, say you are losing a BG, so you decide to just bail on it and go do something else to cool off from losing. You're violating TOS since you left your keyboard and character in game? Ridiculous.


Then how would you get: http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=161


rare in a random BG. Totally chance based. I've never even seen the enemy team gotten this achievement even when AB was 2000 resources.

Also, wanted to bring up the question of making PVP "fair" in WoW. It's not fair by far. The fact gear disparity exists by many item level points proves this. Also, think of graveyard camping, how is this "fair?" In fact, I would say that the devs actually work to make PVP in WoW against being fair.

Edit: Just wanted to add this thing with conquest point cap being different depending on how a player decides to PVP. This also isn't fair. The weekly conquest cap should be equal to all players no matter how they decide to PVP. This would be fair.
Edited by Ðreamin on 11/10/2012 5:23 AM PST
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Awww man , I want that PvP title "Speed Bump"
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1 Undead Rogue
0
11/09/2012 03:25 PMPosted by Mooniverse
Making the world appear populated so they can avoid server mergers is much more important than passenger mounts, or fishing tournaments, or any such thing. Priorities, people.


lol this times a thousand. Appearance is apparently more important than substance to Blizzard.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10990

I don't know much about bots, but couldn't they just turn off /follow in BGs? Isn't that how the bots know where the fight is? They follow someone who's not a bot?


Those 'bots' are not real bots. They are basically a macro that auto targets the nearest friendly player and auto follows them, powered by an auto clicking program. Both are impossible to detect by Warden, but completely obvious to any non-afk player.


You're missing my point. Why doesn't Blizzard just turn off the ability to /follow in BGs? If the AFKers are exploiting via the ability to /follow, then turn off /follow in BGs. Is that really all that needs to happen?
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