Topic How I made millions and why I quit WoW.
Edited by Maxdps on 11/19/12 7:16 AM (PST)
A lot of people have asked me this question over time and even over the last few days and I thought this would be a perfect time to answer it.
Q. How I made millions of gold.
A. I was on a low pop realm. Didn't know any other for the first 2 years of wow. Those buggers wiped on gruuls and mags for 6 months! I first farmed about 12000 primal fires at skald during that time and sold them for 18-20g each and capped my first character. The cap then was 214,736g48s56c. At the end of tbc, my friend showed me a progressed realm (Blackrock) and how it was absolutely superior in progression and economy to the one I was on at the time - pugs farming T6 while my old realm guilds are wiping on T4 still at end of expac. I transferred over with my worldly possessions of 240,000 gold and 4 characters at the end of TBC.
Immediately as I got to the new realm, I noticed there was a huge price disparity on Hearts of Darkness. Back on my old realm, they were 600 gold each due to noob progression and wipefests and on the new realm, there were 1000s on the AH for 5-10g each, where pugs were clearing T6. I bought 60 stacks of them and transferred a character to my old realm and sold them for 200g each. Cost me $50 to transfer in and out. But the profit of 228,000 gold on an investment of 12,000 gold inside of 48 hours when they sold on AH like hotcakes was worth it - at last... a month before lich king was coming, everyone on my old realm could at least enjoy wearing some T6 level crafted gear!
I was Santa Claus to the people on low - pop realm I went to. Several sent me god bless you and thank you notes and would actually save gold and wait for me to make my next trip. They got plans, mats and gear super cheap, I got a nice profit for my troubles, and Blizzard made 50 bucks everytime. Later, I only went to realms where I had tcg mount buyers to make extra profits selling epics, from the transfer. With the proceeds, I would craft choppers/hogs and transfer them back and sell 10% cheaper than mats to sell quickly. Over time, I took millions of gold worth of goodies and limited my profits to 25% as I was happy with 500k profit per 2mil investment.
I continued doing that once every 2-3 months and made my first million. Around that time, TCG Mounts were made BoE and I started reselling TCG mounts in game. (Buying from people that redeem the cards for in game mounts and then sell me the in game mounts for gold). Till date I have resold over 650 tcg mounts and 128 of those were swift spectral tigers (I kept a count), over 5 years. Totally I made well over 20 million gold and a LOT of people happy.
My deepest gratitude to the people that sold me those many tcg mounts without haggling for price (in gold)- they just accepted whatever i offered, which was 10-20% less than my selling price (in gold). Most were supplied to me by people that are rich irl and only played wow to raid and didn't have time for much else, like farming. Airline pilots, airhostesses, oil rig workers, war vets getting hazard pay in war zones, star chefs, restaurant and business owners, singers, actors, models, escorts, gogo dancers, bartenders, fashion designers, 9-ball pool hustlers, high rollers, yep they would all get in touch with me and sell me tcg mounts.
I also bought all the tcg mounts and pets, including 10 Spectral Tigers (7 swift and 3 rare) for my characters over the years, which some GM's i spoke to in game said maybe the only such collection in the world as they didn't know anyone else with 10 tigers in 1 account, back before account-wide mounts hit.
Other than that, I was fortunate enough to be able to help over 1000 players in game, through gifting prizes for contests, 11 bags and 250g-500g each for newbies mostly, tcg mounts to collectors, guild banks an guildies, among others.
Edited by Maxdps on 11/16/12 11:21 AM (PST)
Q. If the going was good, Why did I quit?
A. I thought I had found paradise - Proudmoore. It's a great realm and I have enjoyed wow thoroughly only on this realm and actually didn't ever think I would quit.
The problem was dupers and hackers. My main interest in wow was the auction house (I am a businessman irl). I loved selling TCG Mounts and crafted epics - All high end goods. People from multiple realms often transferred to me to buy items. I enjoyed helping others get the mount of their dreams or gear up quicker because I sold absolutely low margin items. I estimate I've made over 100 million gold turnover from auction house sales alone and an equal amount in direct trades, between my bankers (though profit overall was 10% = 20mil).
Towards the end of Cataclysm, dupers started showing up and selling items super cheap. Blizzard keeps trying to tell people items cannot be duped, they rated this game T for teen, and they think everyone must be that age group and will believe anything.
I'll simply point out how I know items were duped. Half a dozen sellers on dozens of realms are selling the very same item, in the same number, over and over. A hacker who collected hacked items would have a varying stock of items, depending on the contents of what accounts he has hacked. You cannot expect me to believe that the very same number of the very same items were collected from the hacked accounts for months on end by several different hackers. They were obviously duped. These people advertise on a lvl 1, then transfer over with lvl 80's carrying the items to deliver.
What kept me playing was the gdkp - whose folks I love, and the auction house - for tcg mounts and epics.
I have competitors in tcg sales on other realms and they've openly bought items from the dupers but yet no action was taken on them ever. Everything from spectral tigers to every other tcg mount was duped - I know because i had the dupers contact me after seeing my mounts on AH offering me the entire set of tcg mounts i.e. ALL boe tcg mounts for a package of 900k gold. They said they can deliver unlimited stocks of it.
I had gone from dealing in elite products traded between players to a market where dupers were controlling everything. The last straw was the blood spirits dupe. I bought every high end crafting plans for 200k ( blacksmithing, tailoring and leatherworking) and learnt them on my characters. Naturally, to recover the costs, I would buy blood spirits from fellow players for 8k each and put up the crafted item on Auction. It would add upto 75k in cost.
Overnight the dupers came in and put blood spirits up for 2k each, and I wasn't aware of it until a guy whispered me and asked me the price of a crafted chest an I told him 75k (8k x 8 blood spirits = 64k + 8 living steel = 4k and 7k for my 3 spirits including recovery on plans investment). He said one word "ripoff" that irked me, as I always sold lesser than ah prices and a tad over my mats cost. I went and checked the Auction House and lo and behold, in less than 6 weeks of content, there were 100's of duped blood spirits for 2k each.
No matter what they say, Blizzard takes zero action on these people. I know because the same people contacted me several of times and offered me blood spirits in the last week - they were the same folk who offered me all the boe tcg mounts package. They had 40 stacks to sell for 400k. Yeh, like I believe ANYONE disenchanted 800 weapons in 4 weeks of raiding, much less have several dupers selling the same numbers of the same items -we know they're different accounts because when you ignore/report 1, you can still see the other's chat. I could have easily bought the 40 stacks for 400k thats what? 500g a blood spirit and resell it for 2k, but i felt really disgusted with the idea that I had moved from an MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) to a MDORPG (Multiple Duper Online Role Playing Game).
I had gone from dealing in elite items to gold farmer / hacker / duper sold items. That's not what I play wow for, to trade with those kinds of people. My fun with wow was dealing with real players and making real people happy, not making underhand dealings with cheaters. Hence, I made a decision to quit and have deleted several characters and am continuing to delete more as soon as I hand out their guild banks / gold / items to my closest friends.
I wish you all the best, and will be around these forums from time to time as I have prepaid the next 3 years of wow and will at least use that to keep in touch with folks.
Edited by Maxdps on 11/16/12 11:25 AM (PST)
Blizzard never ONCE helped me. Everything was a chore. From trying to get characters transferred to even getting my authenticator. I pleaded with Blizzard in emails to send me an authenticator for which I would pay even the courier costs and they didn't even reply. Finally one of my friends mailed me mine, some 8 months after i tried to get one. I gifted him 500k now when i quit as a thank you.
The credit cards wouldn't work at the character services, because inspite of being a so called top company, blizzard have an unsecured website and hence my VISA credit card provider has blocked them temporarily because of all the fraudulent transactions / chargebacks going on there, which was explained to me by my Credit Card Manager via telephone. Heck, my cousin is a top exec locally at Bank of America and even his credit card didn't go through, when he tried to help me out while visiting for dinner, when mine wasn't going through.
Here, in my third world country, companies Customer Service is frikking awesome. For example, If my internet goes down, which rarely it does, within 30 seconds you have a rep on the phone, within 5mins they have tried digital troubleshooting / tracking, in 1-3 hours the guy is over to fix the wire. Any problem is one call away from a solution. Try putting a call to Blizzard, the only help you'll get is trying to make your credit card go through. Ask for any other help (other than paid services & hacked account / character recovery), you'll be politely refused. "Please, I need an authenticator. I'm not in the countries they're available in. I'll pay entire courier costs. Even $100 for a $6 item. Other end **Crickets**.
Even my net company gets a monthly fee - they could have been like Blizzard, taken 6 days to answer "tickets", let me stay disconnected while they "investigate", because they're getting a monthly sum, but thankfully they're not. By the time blizzard's so called ban waves come, the market is ruined by the dupers who have made their gold and moved on.
I have had enough of a fourth world type service from a supposed first world gaming company.
In a nutshell,
1. I love wow.
2. I love proudmoore.
3. I love the fellow players.
4. I cannot degrade myself to a level of dealing with dupers for daily crafting items. Same people are trying to sell me items for months on end, everytime i login, "Hi" comes in from several of them, followed by "you buy package tcg mounts or blood spirits you need i sell?". Had enough of that crap!
DISCLAIMER: Here on in, I claim no deleted character / names as mine other than Maxdps and as such, take no responsibiity in your dealing with such characters in game. I may keep max around to use for posting purposes. Everyone / thing else is deleted / getting deleted.
How quaint. Someone who effectively bought wow gold with irl money is complaining about his shady competition.Yeh, like I believe ANYONE disenchanted 800 weapons in 4 weeks of raiding.
How quaint. Someone who effectively bought wow gold with irl money is complaining about his shady competition.
No more gravy train for you
I-I never got the gravy train thing. ; _ ;
But in all seriousness;
There is a problem going on with exploitations with certain items.
It isn't duping - Blizzard is right on that.
However there's an exploit putting too many of these items out into the game than intended.
I have my theories into it but I'd rather not go into it. . _ .
Luckily I only deal in 2/3 TCG loots when people approach me for them but Max kind of got screwed in the TCG department.
According to WoWpedia:
The odds of pulling a Spectral Tiger Loot card out of a Fires of Outland TCG pack are speculated to be around 1 in 7,260. The first Spectral Tiger card sold on eBay for $2,000. Cards currently sell in the range of $500 to $800 on eBay.
So to obtain 128 Spectral Tiger cards you need to either open 930000 packs of cards or spend 64,000 to 102,000 USD? Holy !@#$ man.
Edited by Maxdps on 11/12/12 2:55 AM (PST)
I resold them. Haven't bought anything on ebay until date. There are loads of rich folks who are more than happy to redeem and sell in game boe's. That's why blizzard made them BoE. Most folk would come to me because I always had ready gold. So i bought and sold them for a small markup. I have to thank people like stalin for that because they are quick to relate selling tcg mounts in game for gold buying and people selling tcg mounts looted from cards don't want to have to handle people like that. That's how I got so many mounts offered to me directly by other players , purely for privacy. Whisper me, meet at sw bank steps, trade - it was that easy.:)
Also, 6 years of wow have cost me about $2.5k in game license, sub and transfers. I'm not retarded to spend the price of a humvee for game items. Thats what? $ 420 a year. I did spend $450 for dinner at Hakkasan restaurant friday night though. :(
Which part is buying tcg mounts in game boe for gold from other players and reselling for a profit sounding like buying gold irl. I buy an item with gold and resell it for more gold. Where does irl money come in ?
To make it simpler, if you whispered me you have a tcg mount for sale, and asked for 100k for it, and sold it to me, and I went and sold it for 120k, which part of my involvement is buying gold ? It may be yours because you may have paid for the card, but my involvement is simply buying an in game item for gold and reselling it for gold. Hope you understood clearly now.
You used to be able to get them from DEing raid finder gear. Sounds like you didn't understand your market.
If people were getting as many of them on raid finder, there would be lvl 90's selling it in single or double digits, not lvl 1's spamming gold sales advertisements offering 40 stacks for 400k. It's obvious you are advocating / defending / in cahoots with gold sellers trying to discredit valid reasons offered by other players who don't subscribe to your line of thought.
What investment are you talking about ? I bought the game like everyone, paid sub like everyone, and paid for some character transfers is all. Those are expenses. Paying for a game whose rights lie with blizzard isn't ever categorized under "investment". Who invests in wow ? Even the gold sellers hack others accounts and make profits irl selling hacked gold without paying a single dollar. This game isn't ever an "investment".
Beat me at my own game ? I could easily have bought all 40 stacks of duped blood spirits at 400k and resold for double or triple minimum. If anything, i could have profited 400k-800k from that deal, but dealing with degenerates and cheaters isn't my idea of enjoyment, and that's what the game is coming to courtesy blizzard. That's where I decided to draw the line for myself.
If you still haven't understood that part, my reasoning was that hackers were selling duped blood spirits cheaper than players and the gold to purchase them goes to the hackers and not to fellow players, thereby cheating fellow players out of the gold that should be rightfully theirs. I was fine with 8k per spirit as it was going to other players, it was the 2k per spirit to hackers that I got an issue with. Normal players who deserver 8k per spirit were getting cheated by hackers selling them cheaper, which they wil always do.
Oh joy. Bait, line, and sinker.
1. I never admitted I geared 'wrong'. I said I don't gear 'properly'. I'm an avoidance tank. That's my sin. The prim and proper crowd demands mitigation. They get lippy, and then get squashed because they haven't connected the dot between secondary stats and uptime, to say nothing about ignorance to mechanics.
2. That last post got me more challenge mode friends, so I guess so. I don't have enough time to push them too seriously, but my casual bad self has more medals than you.
3. I don't stick it to 'all of us'. I stick it to people who think they know what they are talking about, and then fail at basic raid mechanics. Especially the people who are pissants to other people who are simply asking for help.
I remember when the 'proper' mages in BC were fire, and then Vodka killed Muru with 3 arcane mages.
It was a glorious time.
Edited by Maxdps on 11/12/12 3:00 AM (PST)
WTS tinfoil hat
It's goodbye in the game. I said I quit wow, not forums. I'm still around for 3 more years till my sub runs out. Save your goodbye till 2015. It's obvious valid reasons and arguments have zero effect on your understanding. Get that tinfoil hat off yourself, bud. I'm posting valid points, it's not getting past your stone skull. Now that i'm not playing, I have ample time to sit here and chat with you. More forums less wow for joo! :p