What is acceptable DPS in Mogu'shan Vaults?

55 Human Death Knight
11850
Apologizes for posting on an alt, but this is a sensitive issue. What dps should be acceptable to raid in MoP? We currently have three dps (hunter, rogue, DK) pulling around 30-35k and feel it is hurting our attempts on the third boss (we're hitting the enrage timer before 20%). However, after talking to one of them, they say that their dps is in the right place for their ilvl (471). I don't normally dps and don't want to push the issue without proof so any help (especially if someone had logs for someone with similar ilvl on the same job) would be greatly appreciated.
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90 Troll Hunter
9050
If your hunter is MM spec he is doing good. I'm not sure about rogues or how their DPS is doing but I think the DK could do better. my best guess is that they should be pulling about 40-45k DPS if they reforge and gem correctly not sure though.

I've only done LFR so I can't say anything definitive but the only way I do competitive DPS on Garjal is when I abuse the heck out of the spirit realm damage debuff.

Also I believe Noxxic and World of logs have some comprehensive and realistic representations of DPS for each fight maybe try that.

hope this was of some use.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7995
50k dps +
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90 Night Elf Druid
15870
FWIW outside of maybe the rogue (seems like you need to really gear up before pulling decent numbers there) dps should be higher than that -- that's the dps level you'd see in DS. On boss fights I would think you should be seeing 40~50k or so.

Certain fights have different mechanics and such so there's always that, but when you're on the spirit guy shouldn't the dps be higher via the mechanics? Is there no one going into the spirit world? You get a stacking buff after killing spirits that buff your haste/crit/etc... If your DPS are cycling in and they're only doing 35k, something seems a bit off there.

Disclaimer: I've not raided much in this tier, so I could be wrong, good luck!
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90 Draenei Shaman
8130
Its hard to generalize based on an entire raid without considering indivdual fights mechanics and the responsibilities given to indivduals.

Having said that, that number seems low for that type of gear if the indivduals only responsibility is to attack Garajal. I think I did 65-70k a couple of weeks ago when I had a similar gear level. However I had no responsibilities besides tunneling the boss.
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55 Human Death Knight
11850
To clarify, the hunter is survival / bm if that helps and the three of them need only worry about dpsing the boss. Everyone is 471 ilvl or higher. We put 2 dps in to the spirit realm at all times and will be dropping a healer for a dps next attempt. Everyone is really concerned that we won't burn past the 20% mark in enough time to two heal with our current progress (we hit enrage at around 40% with current dps, 19% with another dps replacing the DK). I'm also not looking for super amazing dps (though those numbers look reasonable), just a passable amount for dps check bosses.

Though is there another dps issue with the totems that might help us? Dps doesn't seem to go up much if any for that boss somehow even with dps rotating out.
Edited by Vallise on 11/13/2012 10:54 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
4680
Everyone in 463 heroic gear should pull over 50k if spec gems enchants are right.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
16385
The numbers sound low, but what I can say is that the buff from exiting the Spirit realm is not very good for hunters. It provides haste. In our attempts I am usually last priority for entering the spirit realm behind our Mage, Lock and Elemental Shaman.
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90 Human Death Knight
14010
Something that helped us pick up that last 20 percent was pairing up a high dps with another dps that could handle lots of adds, usually a ranged. As soon as your high dps is healed to full have them jump back out and get back on the boss instead of leaving them both in the spirit realm for the full duration.
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55 Human Death Knight
11850
Thanks for all the replies. They're very helpful. We are unfortunately more melee heavy so the hunter goes in for the reason that Blood stated. But, if it is a dps loss for them, we will try keeping them out as much as possible next attempt. I also think our dps are staying in the spirit realm for too long. I can bring this up as well.
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90 Orc Death Knight
10435
If you can't manage 50k you're either under geared or bad.
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55 Gnome Death Knight
90
11/13/2012 10:21 AMPosted by Vallise
Apologizes for posting on an alt, but this is a sensitive issue. What dps should be acceptable to raid in MoP? We currently have three dps (hunter, rogue, DK) pulling around 30-35k and feel it is hurting our attempts on the third boss (we're hitting the enrage timer before 20%). However, after talking to one of them, they say that their dps is in the right place for their ilvl (471). I don't normally dps and don't want to push the issue without proof so any help (especially if someone had logs for someone with similar ilvl on the same job) would be greatly appreciated.


It sounds like you may not be managing the buff stacks right. You need to get people into and out of the spirit world with appropriate stacks. That will help beat the enrage timer. If those guys are getting buffed in the spiritual world, especially the rogue, and still doing low dps, then it's a problem with their spec or their play.
Edited by Buzzstomp on 11/13/2012 11:46 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Hunter
16385
11/13/2012 11:03 AMPosted by Vallise
Thanks for all the replies. They're very helpful. We are unfortunately more melee heavy so the hunter goes in for the reason that Blood stated. But, if it is a dps loss for them, we will try keeping them out as much as possible next attempt. I also think our dps are staying in the spirit realm for too long. I can bring this up as well.
It's not a loss. It's just not as beneficial.

Also as Blood said and you said... get out of the spirit realm faster. In our early attempts the DPS was staying in too long to try and kill every add. We switched and tried to dot as many as possible and popping out asap. We also skipped the "last" totem and allowed the adds to continue spawning and just went all out on the boss, but we had 3 heals.
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55 Gnome Death Knight
90
Thanks for all the replies. They're very helpful. We are unfortunately more melee heavy so the hunter goes in for the reason that Blood stated. But, if it is a dps loss for them, we will try keeping them out as much as possible next attempt. I also think our dps are staying in the spirit realm for too long. I can bring this up as well.
It's not a loss. It's just not as beneficial.

Also as Blood said and you said... get out of the spirit realm faster. In our early attempts the DPS was staying in too long to try and kill every add. We switched and tried to dot as many as possible and popping out asap. We also skipped the "last" totem and allowed the adds to continue spawning and just went all out on the boss, but we had 3 heals.


We tried that strat, which I think is from Icy Veins, and did not like it. It was better for us to two heal and use two dps teams with two standbys. We did, however, try to get one dps back out once they had a certain number of stacks. Either strat works fine.

OP - this fight is not particularly melee friendly and that may be a part of your problem.
Edited by Buzzstomp on 11/13/2012 11:49 AM PST
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90 Orc Death Knight
7980
Regardless if the fight is melee friendly or not, they should be pulling higher dps than that. In my terrible gear (iLvL 459 Tank gear), I set up my dps spec last night and pulled 30k dps on the training dummy with no buffs and no flask while trying to get used to the spec. I didn't even put up horn of winter. Your DK should be pulling 50k+ fairly easily.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
9405
When dealing dps as a 2hd frost DK in raid envirionments I always get behind the mob that I am dpsing. One reason you don't have to worry about being parried or dodged so you max out your chances to crit as well. Make sure your dps has maxed out there reforges, gems, enchants, glyph's, leg armor, shoulder inscriptions, pots a must. Doing the vaults low end dps was 35k up to over 200k using trinkets and maxing out diseases on target.
I check out my toon on a regular basis when I get new gear www.askmrrobot.com helps alot. Its anoying but I at least go through over 2k a week in new items. Don't let your guildies get lazzy maxing out caps is a must even with heroic gear doing LFR raids are easy as long as people know there toons. Also make sure your guild is doing trade skills unless you want to have individuals blow thru alot of gold buying items to max out gear and spec. Just some pointers for your dk dps but it can also apply to other dps's in your guild.
Edited by Darkmocha on 11/13/2012 1:05 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
6580
Gara'jal isn't the right fight to be looking at for DPS -- you wont see their damage if you are in a different realm.

That being said, every class can do 50k in ilevel463.
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90 Human Monk
10330
I have a question. Are you 2 healing, or 3 healing? I know it wouldn't affect their individual DPS, but it would affect those 20% enrage wipes.

Next, a few things stand out to me. You say that they have no responsibility other than tunneling the boss - So these DPS are not taking the spirit world? If that is the case, and they have 371 ilvl, then they are seriously under-performing. As previously mentioned, every DPS spec in the game can pull higher numbers than 30-35k on a single target fight in even 363 heroic gear.

Here is my advice on this, as it sounds like you are the raid leader. Because it is a sensitive topic, maybe do research on these classes yourself. It really probably wouldn't take long - Go to EJ, even. By doing so, you can compare what they should be doing to what they are doing. Perhaps they aren't hit / Expertise capped, or they are gemming / reforging incorrectly.

If you still don't see an issue, maybe check a world of logs report for gara'jal, and compare the ability usage of your players vs. players pulling more DPS. Perhaps your raiders aren't using the correct rotation.
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90 Tauren Paladin
16135
Tell your hunter to stop sucking. Not nice I know. SV pulling around 50k at 470. BM pulling around 60-65 with a spec that was put together in five mins for ancient hysteria.
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