hmm?

90 Night Elf Mage
8085
11/05/2012 09:35 PMPosted by Infernalist
grind-style gameplay


Grind.

...I think you lack an understanding of the difference between 'some non-instant progress' and 'grind'.

Here, lemme give you a guided tour of Aion, whaddya say?
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90 Undead Warlock
9255
11/05/2012 09:35 PMPosted by Gobagool

"Gear drops in raids like it always has."
"I like gear like I always have."
"But I want bonus chances at that gear."
"I have to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear?!"
"I don't want to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear!"
"That thing I don't want to do that would earn me bonus chances at that gear, doesn't earn me bonus chances at that gear!"

Let me know if that's an accurate summary, as well as what you're talking about. o.O


I think that's pretty accurate. I didn't know what the charms were at first and now I have way too many it seems but I've been doing the hell out of the dailies. However, I do hope you guys create a champion tabard for those factions at some point because I can't imagine anyone doing those on more than a couple toons before they don't want to do them anymore.

Still, I think people are complaining too quick, they're so used to running their alts in earlier expansions that now they look at this grind like they're going to have to do it for each alt at the beginning and it seems overwhelming.

I think you should be concentrating on one toon and doing the dailies on that one.

Remember folks, from BC backwards we didnt have serious alts we had our main and that's what we worked on.


Cataclysm is entirely to blame. Well, partially LK content.

But Cataclysm 'really' made it bad. Back then, once you got to a certain point, gearwise, there wasn't 'anything' to do at 85. You could do MORE 5mans if you really wanted to, or PVP...But other than that, you had nothing else.

So people made alts. And due to how 'easy' it was to hit 85, people made alts and more alts and more alts...And each one was easy as pie to gear up for Raiding. Just grind 5mans until you were geared with 378 gear and Valor capped and you were good to go.

Now? Now, we're going back to an older way of doing things, with singular focus and it's working for me. I enjoy being able to focus on one toon. I have my others for profs, but honestly, who cares? Everything is so damned cheap on the AH(crafted trinkets and jewel mounts excepted), I can buy whatever I need and 'still' end up with thousands of gold on each toon.

Honestly, I enjoy the slower pace and relaxed rhythm.
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90 Draenei Hunter
11520
11/05/2012 09:31 PMPosted by Zavala
belittling and condescending,


That is your oppinion, I have noticed that if a CM doesn't coddle a player, everyone sees evil intent in his/her words. I guess it depends on whether you agree or dissagree with what they are saying, you see belittling and condescending where I see him asking the OP a legitimate question " do I understand what you just posted?"

11/05/2012 09:31 PMPosted by Zavala
a famous Blue poster many years ago


I've been around on these forums for years, comparing what Zar posted to "he who shall not be named" is a huge stretch of your imagination.
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90 Undead Warlock
9255
11/05/2012 09:40 PMPosted by Shanndi
grind-style gameplay


Grind.

...I think you lack an understanding of the difference between 'some non-instant progress' and 'grind'.

Here, lemme give you a guided tour of Aion, whaddya say?


OMG, wait, I DIDN'T SAY THAT.

I demand an apology.

And cookies.

And a /waggle.
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11/05/2012 09:36 PMPosted by Rosenivy
And playing just one main is wrong because?


Because it's not fun for some of us.

I know it's hard to grasp, but not everyone wants the same things from the game that you do. I don't find WoW's gameplay deep enough to hold my attention unless I'm splitting my attention between two or three different classes.
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90 Undead Warlock
9255
11/05/2012 09:40 PMPosted by Baby
belittling and condescending,


That is your oppinion, I have noticed that if a CM doesn't coddle a player, everyone sees evil intent in his/her words. I guess it depends on whether you agree or dissagree with what they are saying, you see belittling and condescending where I see him asking the OP a legitimate question " do I understand what you just posted?"

a famous Blue poster many years ago


I've been around on these forums for years, comparing what Zar posted to "he who shall not be named" is a huge stretch of your imagination.


Yah, the players around here are evil about finding any excuse to be 'insulted' and slighted. It's their passive-aggressive way of lashing out at the CMs. Find insult, complain loudly and repeatedly and hope that the CM gets spanked by someone higher up on the ladder.

It's pretty sad to see.
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90 Human Mage
14930
11/05/2012 09:36 PMPosted by Rosenivy
Maybe it really is just time for my hang up my wand. I've played this game since release. I have four 90's, six 85s and a 34. I have no desire to do anything with any but my main right now because the stuff that actually matters to me is locked behind daily grinds I just can't bring myself to go through again. Normally I'd swap to an alt after doing my dailies and other stuff on my main. Now I just log off because playing my alts doesn't accomplish anything I care about.


And playing just one main is wrong because?

That's what I'm doing. I miss my alts but the sanity is a nice trade off.

Least now you only have to focus on one toons gear. Less stress and gold spending with reforging/gems/enchants.


Focusing on just one character isn't wrong.

But what if I WANT to pursue multiple characters? Is that wrong?

I don't have any stress over managing multiple characters. I have plenty of gold. I have a lot of free time to play. But now I have less DESIRE to play because I cannot pursue the goals I would like to because the only method to achieve those goals is too painful to endure a second time around.
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90 Night Elf Druid
8070
11/05/2012 09:39 PMPosted by Enhancement
I don't mean to take this out of context by cut-quoting, but Blizzard pretty clearly thinks it's not too late. They have explicitly stated that they didn't like the system in DS-era Cataclysm. They want Valor points to be, essentially, a record of your activities in game which you can use for incremental upgrades or very slow gap filling -- not a super currency that buys a full raid-quality set on day 1 of an expansion.


No one actually expects that. Although, no one really expected the possibility to be at or near valor cap with no means of spending it either.

Speaking of which... the Valor upgrade system is still coming Soon™ although I suspect the original design intention was to have it out already. Last I heard there was still no sign of it on the PTR although I'm not 100% that has changed. Still no clarification on whether there will be a rep requirement, as far as I know.

If there is, can we finally start calling dailies a necessity?
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90 Undead Priest
12315
11/05/2012 09:14 PMPosted by Zooties
"I must do ALL THE THINGS if I can," rather than, "I must do all the things I find fun that will progress my character, time permitting" you'll surely feel overwhelmed.


http://cdn.overclock.net/2/23/552x414px-LL-2378784a_x-all-the-things.jpeg
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
11190
Because it's not fun for some of us.

I know it's hard to grasp, but not everyone wants the same things from the game that you do. I don't find WoW's gameplay deep enough to hold my attention unless I'm splitting my attention between two or three different classes.


nooooooo seriously? Wow this is completely new to me.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
11190
11/05/2012 09:45 PMPosted by Kyriani
But what if I WANT to pursue multiple characters? Is that wrong?


No but I was just suggesting a main until Blizz figures out something to do. The rep boosts do help and I think you're exaggerated if a daily is making your skin crawl. They're not that bad.
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80 Orc Shaman
12620

Players wanted the cap gone because it was preventing them from doing the extra dailies they wanted, ones that were fully optional from a raiding perspective. This especially meant from old expansions, like for example doing netherwing while still doing your raid-related firelands dailies in cata.

Turns out, the cap was actually the only thing protecting us from blizzard inundating us with raid-relevant dailies. With the cap, they never gave us over 25 dailies related (by rewards) to raiding, the moment it was gone? 50+.

These progression paths ARE necessary for raid success, being defined as clearing raid content at the earliest time possible with the fewest failures possible. Blizzard needs to understand that our player-designed systems are not only valid, but more valid than whatever blizzard itself wants for players, and they need to design content with those systems in mind so long as they exist.


I'm not really of the opinion that these dailies are incredibly raid-relevant, but I do understand what you're saying.

I totally agree with you that a good developer designs games with an understanding of player-driven systems like the progression mentality we're talking about. It's just that in this context I think we're talking about the kind of player-driven system that, were Blizzard to make a concerted effort to accommodate it, would have a significant negative impact on the less-motivated types of players. And I think Blizzard realizes that. They absolutely could design those kinds of systems, they're just choosing not to because they want their game to take a different direction.

And like I said in another post in this thread: if a player quits because Blizzard isn't designing its systems optimally for that player's (or raid group's) preferences, that's totally fine. I just find it odd when people quit under those circumstances and then act like their personal preferences had nothing to do with it.
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Community Manager
11/05/2012 08:32 PMPosted by Skyborn
The whole "coin" thing is fine but I know have 274 lesser charm of good fortune and 9 elder charm of good fortune! WTH am I gonna do with all these lesser ones? Can't trade them in, not yet geared enough for raids(spending way too much time doing dailies with no time left for heroics!)!!!! So what good are they other then taking up space(2slots) in my bag?!?!?!

Lesser Charms are being moved out of your bags and turned into a currency in 5.1. Think a little further down the road when you're not doing dailies as often and you're raiding more. A stockpile of Lesser Charms is absolutely what you'll want. ;)
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90 Undead Warlock
9255
11/05/2012 09:47 PMPosted by Rosenivy
But what if I WANT to pursue multiple characters? Is that wrong?


No but I was just suggesting a main until Blizz figures out something to do. The rep boosts do help and I think you're exaggerated if a daily is making your skin crawl. They're not that bad.


Hyperbolic rambling is endemic at times. They exaggerate how bad it is in hopes of eliciting sympathy or agreement from others.
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90 Human Death Knight
11945
11/05/2012 09:42 PMPosted by Maigraith
I know it's hard to grasp, but not everyone wants the same things from the game that you do


Maybe you should take your own advice...not everyone wants the same things in this game as you...maybe you should try grasping THAT idea. It's easy, M'kay?
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
11190
Hyperbolic rambling is endemic at times. They exaggerate how bad it is in hopes of eliciting sympathy or agreement from others.


And yet they don't figure out that stuff doesn't work on the forums?

Just be honest. Speak with a level headed mind. Rather then spam curses demanding blues talk to you........

bollocks that's never going to happen..
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90 Human Death Knight
11945
11/05/2012 09:48 PMPosted by Zarhym
Lesser Charms are being moved out of your bags and turned into a currency in 5.1. Think a little further down the road when you're not doing dailies as often and you're raiding more. A stockpile of Lesser Charms is absolutely what you'll want. ;)


I'm not 90, and I'm glad for this! Only have 10 bag slots atm..and not even 90.

Also, any word on when we get bigger bags? I have all Embersilk 22 slot bags, and have not seen any bigger bags. Are there any out there? If so, none on my realm's AH...
Edited by Juststabd on 11/5/2012 9:53 PM PST
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90 Draenei Hunter
11520
11/05/2012 09:42 PMPosted by Maigraith
And playing just one main is wrong because?


Because it's not fun for some of us.

I know it's hard to grasp, but not everyone wants the same things from the game that you do. I don't find WoW's gameplay deep enough to hold my attention unless I'm splitting my attention between two or three different classes.


I play alts... you could say I'm a bit of an altoholic (this is one of my alts). Would you agree if I demanded that Blizzard not make me run the same raids or dungeons on my alts that I had to run on my main to gain rep or gear? I hope not, I would hope you would tell me that if I want the rewards, I need to do whatever is required for each of my characters.

I have to work hard to get that pattern or peice of gear, but I don't have to be in a raid group, or run the same 3 dungeons over and over and over and over.... till I just want to puke when I enter it. I don't have to wait for a pattern to drop in a raid and watch my horribly unlucky dice lose it again. I don't have to us my mats to buy patterns... I'm pretty happy doing dailies... sitting in SW reading trade chat while waiting for that same dungeon to pop was never my way of playing a game.
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85 Undead Rogue
8380
Still, I think people are complaining too quick, they're so used to running their alts in earlier expansions that now they look at this grind like they're going to have to do it for each alt at the beginning and it seems overwhelming.

I think you should be concentrating on one toon and doing the dailies on that one.

Remember folks, from BC backwards we didnt have serious alts we had our main and that's what we worked on.


And playing just one main is wrong because?

That's what I'm doing. I miss my alts but the sanity is a nice trade off.

Least now you only have to focus on one toons gear. Less stress and gold spending with reforging/gems/enchants.


I don't want to play just one main. I absolutely hate the "main" and "alt" concept. I have characters. I want to play different characters at different times. That's really the core of why I hate all this gating. It not only forces me to do a million dailies a day, but it also forces me to pick one character, or else I'm going to have to do a million dailies on a million characters every day. My hunter was first to 90, then I got my monk to 90. At first I was able to keep up with both of them somewhat. I've now basically abandoned my hunter. My guild needs a healer, so I'm working on the monk because that's what will get me real raid experience. I hate it. I'd like to play my hunter, but after I've done my dailies on my monk, I don't want to do them on the hunter. And I don't enjoy doing randoms on the hunter, because his gear is awful. I can't upgrade his gear with out the rep grind.

I want to play whichever character I want whenever I want, and not feel like I should be fulfilling the requirements of another character instead.
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