hmm?

90 Troll Mage
8280


Arena ratings are nothing like dailies. You don't have to grind out a rating with a different faction for each piece of gear you want.

If you want to compare rep to rating, then make one single rep to grind for everything, not multiple reps.


That is some awesome goal-post dragging.


Arena Ratings? What are you, in Wrath?

If only that WERE the case. Having everyone prance around in the same gear just because they capped their conquest points in a bad arena team for the week leaves out the feeling of a goal in pvp.
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90 Pandaren Priest
15550
Wow, some people won't be happy no matter what you give them. If you don't want to do dailies, then don't! You can have others who did dailies for rep craft gear for you. MoP gives you various ways to obtain gear, from dailies with rep to dungeons, to raids, to world bosses, to crafted gear, to lots of world drop BOEs, to yes, the Black Market AH. The game isn't all about handouts, you have to work to obtain top quality gear. Try this... You could just do a few dailies a day, perhaps just take it one rep at a time... Don't feel obligated to do all of them every day, you'll get burned out.

This game is full of people who want things dropped in their lap because they pay to play. That just isn't how it works. Mmorpgs are supposed to be challenging and all about working hard to build your character.

Most valor gear can be purchased around honored or revered, which in many instances can be achieved through normal, not daily, questing. Granted you run dungeons/lfr for the valor.

The same is true in life, you can work for $14/hour and drive a used camry, or work your tail off and buy a BMW. The trail to get a BMW is difficult, but rewarding in the end. And the same is true for WoW and MoP. Please fix this entitlement issue, it's ruining the game for the rest of us because Blizzard has to try and cater to you so you don't "cancel your subscription". What an overused, selfish, whiny, childish statement if I've ever heard one before. It gets old quick.

The End
Edited by Waynebrady on 11/5/2012 11:21 PM PST
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100 Orc Shaman
14900

Have you even seen what is available now or what is coming in 5.1? Valor is still a very legitimate currency. The biggest challenges are that it has become much more difficult to cap, which I'm perfectly ok with, and that there's currently no way to spend it without a fairly heavy dedication to dailies.


Sometimes I just think they would've been better off not having Valor be the currency for the Rep rewards, to the point that there would be no Valor "gear" at all at launch. As bizarre as that system might be, at least the relative value (and purpose) of Valor would be more clear.

I mean, which is it? Is Valor weighted for purchasing intro-tier raid epic gear? Or is it weighted for upgrading existing epics by a few item levels? Because those two things are going to be divergent as we get more and more tiers of raids. Then again, as I said a while back, maybe that's the whole point.

There's still no clarity as to whether the upgrade system will require a rep, or which rep for that matter.


I feel like attaching the upgrade system in 5.1 to any particular rep (or reps at all) would be cumbersome and awkward. But I haven't really thought that much about it, and that's just my sleepy opinion.
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90 Gnome Mage
9310
@CM_Zarhym I have an idea that may very well make it the best of both worlds regarding the Charms of Good Fortune, allow us more then one method to gain these charms EX: tied in with professions, raiding (hence how they are used, it can be a return investment and keep things like LFR populated with both seasoned vets and new people alike), also have them earned by doing the weekly kill of a boss like they did back in WotLK for frost badges.

You could still leave the option for dailies for those who have a difficult time with the other methods but at the same time allow people to work for the badges in a different method? By still having the weekly turn in cap it prevents people from abusing the other methods.

Any thoughts?


For charms, I like the idea of adding them to challenge modes (perhaps lowering VP reward) or LFR runs after the first. We could definitely use something to provide incentive to run content other than dailies after 463, so it would be nice.
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85 Undead Rogue
8380
11/05/2012 11:17 PMPosted by Infestare
It's amazing how people don't think back to TBC and Vanilla.. When you had 1 (ONE) shot every week at loot... Turning up to Karazhan... Slogging away for a few hours to drop Prince and not have ya helm drop, turning up the week after and have it won by another class cos ya lost the roll.. Now you have 4 chances at loot every week... LFR, Normal, Heroic and coins.. And people STILL whine.. This game has become more and more casual as the expansions go on.. Yet people find more and more to whinge about.. Not only do you have 4 chances but also back up vendors where you can get equal (if not better, depending on spec) gear to help you progress.. I'm glad blizzard makes some stuff hard to get.. Makes you appreciate it more when you get there.. There is nothing wrong with the blue heroic gear.. Most bosses are tuned to be killed in blues in MV until probably Elegon.. So work hard, drop bosses, keep grinding and the rewards will come.. Sooner or later.. If you wanna risk boss drops without coins every week, then more power to you.. Personally I wanna have a double shot at certain bosses for extra gear :-) so I will grind dailies until I have enough every week!


1) Heroic and normal share a lockout. With the limit of 10 Elder Charms, and only 3 per week, that is not four times the loot, especially considering in LFR you aren't going to get anything other than gold.
2) This isn't vanilla or BC or any other expansion. It't Mop. It's the newest expansion, so it should be moving forward, not back.
3) VP doesn't help you fill in any spots, unless you spend all of your game time doing dailies. Even then, it's 2+ weeks of doing it every day.
4) It doesn't matter if the bosses are tuned for 463 blue gear, or iLvl 12 whites from the starter zone. Once you reach the level cap, the only way to improve your character is with gear. It's also more enjoyable when you don't just barely meet the gear threshold, and have a little bit of wiggle room, whether in your own play or to make up for those you are playing with.

Acquiring a sufficient number of lesser charms is not an issue. It's the fact that EVERYTHING is tied to dailies, and if you don't do them you are missing out.
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90 Orc Death Knight
12690
Has the idea of allowing players to purchase Lesser or Elder Charms with Justice Points ever been brought up Zarhym? (Sorry if someone brought it up in this thread, it's kinda long)
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100 Troll Mage
13605
11/05/2012 07:33 PMPosted by Zarhym
Is the only way to get the Elder Charm Coins is by doing dailys by getting 90 of the good coins and turning them into 3 elder...? that sort of forces u into dailys if so.. because u know people want that extra chance in Raid to get the gear so your know there going do dailys to get a silly coin that doesnt even help one bit gg..

"Gear drops in raids like it always has."
"I like gear like I always have."
"But I want bonus chances at that gear."
"I have to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear?!"
"I don't want to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear!"
"That thing I don't want to do that would earn me bonus chances at that gear, doesn't earn me bonus chances at that gear!"

Let me know if that's an accurate summary, as well as what you're talking about. o.O
one thing to keep in mind that the 'gear drops in raids like it always has'
should be worded more along the lines of 'gear drops in raids like it never has before ever in the history of world of warcraft'

as the loot is bound to each person as compared to it dropped like it has.... every.. single.. expansion since vanilla !

with all other raids you can have a piece of gear drop, see it, look at it, gaze longingly upon it and /moan at it if you feel the need.... only to see it be taken by another random person. OR to a buddy who you /GRRRRRRRRatz! to

but the next week that same item drops and you go through all the stages of the after effects of Bloodlust (on a proper kill lol) and OH MY GOD !! this time, the buddy or random person would not need that particular item = it is yours WOOT! VS the 'Bindings of the Windseeker' system that you have implemented with looking for raid MoP edition

you could run molten core till the end of time and never see those bindings drop(got a buddy who had ran it weekly for three years and has not even seen a binding yet... while I run it and get two of the same binding on my druid x-x and the sword on my warrior x-x)

the 'old' LFR system with Dragon soul is much preferable in my opinion as you can increase your odds by running with other people (much like you would if you were hoping to win a mount from a raid such as EoE, keep running as a group till you all get it) .

and sure I suppose it could be said that 'it is not fair for those who dont have friends' ..*insert foreveralone.jpg* too bad for them? lol buy 'friends' in trade to run lfr for the particular item your hoping for (i made a group that would run weekly and help each other get exactly what we needed, i needed cunning, one needed the staff another needed the dagger and we would run it each week till we got one.)
It helped foster comradery on my dead server between the last of the player-base and was an event that we all enjoyed partaking in as more and more people got their gear they would keep joinging just for the hilarity that ensued as we would try out crazy tactics on lfr bosses all the while helping benefit the SERVER.

As it is now, yeah.... you have TERRIBLE odds of winning loot and... even if you beat those terrible odds, you unlock even more odds to face of hoping that you win Item B instead of item A that you already have and.. possibly have already had multiple times over (if you somehow got 'lucky' with the RnG gods)

Especially since x-x the looks from LFR look far more bad @ss than the normal/heroic items for some classes and once the Xpac ended... or you wanted to level to 90 (or even 86) you are locked out of LFR forever! (unlike normal/heroic modes which you can go back and grind with 5-10 people or so for 10/25m of older raids. and even if you did camp out at 85, you basically have to have 24 other people on your server/friends list who also camp out at 85 and are willing to do LFR... because the default LFR Dragon soul que will NEVER happen as it is now)

blah blah rant over, feel free to nit pick at every other thing, but only every other thing lol.

and since i linked bindings, is only fair to link :Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9340
11/05/2012 10:38 PMPosted by Eizza
Lock conquest gear behind Defilers/League of Arathor to EXALTED and see what happens.


Wont have a problem with that :D

I havent done a single rep grind daily and i still enjoy the game as much as ever.
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Zarhym does just fine.

Sure, he's snarky on occasion. No more so than I get when people constantly harp on a single issue without listening to the words coming from my apparently muted facial orifice.

Don't like the way Zarhym talks to you? Stop being a !%#@*#@% to him. The world goes round.
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90 Night Elf Druid
8045
11/05/2012 11:20 PMPosted by Waynebrady
Most valor gear can be purchased around honored or revered, which in many instances can be achieved through normal, not daily, questing. Granted you run dungeons/lfr for the valor.


Alts say hello. Have a cookie.

Sometimes I just think they would've been better off not having Valor be the currency for the Rep rewards, to the point that there would be no Valor "gear" at all at launch. As bizarre as that system might be, at least the relative value (and purpose) of Valor would be more clear.

I mean, which is it? Is Valor weighted for purchasing intro-tier raid epic gear? Or is it weighted for upgrading existing epics by a few item levels? Because those two things are going to be divergent as we get more and more tiers of raids. Then again, as I said a while back, maybe that's the whole point.


Most of the pre MoP buzz has proven... contradictory. Remember GC's post about removing head/shoulder enchants to give more "choice" as far as which reputations to pursue? And now... after all I did for Shado-pan in Towlong! Now they won't talk to me again until I'm done with Golden Lotus.

I don't know. There's a robust gear selection - with more pieces coming - yet its gated by reputation. The upgrade system has yet to make an appearance. Valor amounts have been nerfed across the board, and total amount has been dropped to 3000 (from 4000) so I don't know that more gates were actually needed.

The problem is that the rep gating marginalizes playstyle, for alts, dungeon crawlers, and others. Past 3000 valor, and in a full dungeon set, why would you run scenarios or dungeons any more? For all the vaunted 'choice' we were advertised, the diminishing returns stack up pretty fast. All you can really do is catch up on dailies, losing any potential valor gains while doing so.

Its very much a cattle chute. All roads lead to dailies.
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85 Undead Rogue
8380
11/05/2012 11:20 PMPosted by Waynebrady
The game isn't all about handouts, you have to work to obtain top quality gear.


Nobody is asking for handouts. We want an alternate way to "work" for the gear. You really think doing the same mindless dailies over and over and over is more work than successfully completing group content with random strangers you've never met before, and likely will never meat again?

Tedious != hard.
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90 Worgen Hunter
8075
last i checked, bc = dailies for rep to get gear pieces... or specific enchants

this is, mop = dailies for rep to unlock valor upgrades and fun items/usefull stuff,

Personally, i see the coins as a benefit as they pretty much help me gear quicker without going out of my way, I do dailies each day - it negates having to farm as its about 300-500g/day as well as a few herbs and constant mote generation = golden lotus's which = no need to buy flasks, just give herbs to alchemist and there you go

win win cycle
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
8420
11/05/2012 11:26 PMPosted by Onionrings
1) Heroic and normal share a lockout. With the limit of 10 Elder Charms, and only 3 per week, that is not four times the loot, especially considering in LFR you aren't going to get anything other than gold.


Yeah, has that been brought up yet? There's no point in me having these coins if i'm only going to get gold. Even though we are getting elder charms (which im okay with) players are still at the mercy of RNG, or players of the same class.
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90 Gnome Mage
9310
11/05/2012 11:41 PMPosted by Nightice
last i checked, bc = dailies for rep to get gear pieces... or specific enchants


You checked wrong.
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1 Undead Rogue
0
11/05/2012 08:48 PMPosted by Zarhym
Regardless of your opinion on our delivery, I think it's fair to say we really did give people a lot of choices.


No. Just...no. Telling people "If you want all these nice extras, you have to do dailies" is not giving people a lot of choices. It's forcing them into an "either/or" scenario that isn't fun for anyone. Please stop trying to force that tripe down everyone's throats.

The sheer volume of the outcry against this system since the launch of the expansion should tell you that no, people don't think that you gave them a lot of choices.
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1 Dwarf Paladin
0
I just want to know when will we go from dailies to that Facebook thing of increasing rewards for doing the same things five days in a row.
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1 Undead Rogue
0
11/05/2012 11:56 PMPosted by Marathel
This volume you're talking about is non existant.


Maybe if you've been living under a rock for the last month or so, sure. Or you're just burying your head in the sand. Which it is, I don't know.

For the record: I'm at least revered with every main faction, minus the celestials. I just choose to not ignorantly ignore what is obvious.
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