Blizzard are you even aware of LFR Garalon?

90 Blood Elf Priest
8500

Well that's disappointing. An LFR fight that has genuine mechanics involved and you nerfed it because people weren't killing it on the first try every time.


They didn't nerf the problematic mechanics, though. Maybe healers will be able to heal through the crush damage long enough to get a kill, but I sort of doubt the health was reduced enough for that to be viable.

None of my groups had a problem with the boss gaining fury, but maybe that was problematic in some groups. All wipes I encountered (which admittedly was only 2 across 2 characters) were due to people triggering crush by standing under boss or the kiter moving too fast. It's less kiting and more rp walking.

I probably won't get a chance to try nerfed boss until next week, though. It was boring enough before the nerf, I don't think I can stay awake for the nerfed version when I'm getting no reward.
Edited by Quorim on 11/7/2012 12:56 PM PST
94 Gnome Warlock
1960
11/07/2012 12:50 PMPosted by Kurnea
This implies that the majority of people were killing it on their second attempt, when I don't believe this was the reality.


New fights shouldn't be expected to be wipe free every time. Having at least some semblance of a learning curve is a good thing.
90 Human Paladin
9475
11/07/2012 12:52 PMPosted by Anonim
I'm trying to figure out what the fuss is about! This boss is complex but simple. Here comes a nerf due to all the complainers. Oh how I miss you Vanilla and BC.


Doesn't Garalon remain unnerfed on normal and heroic?
90 Human Warrior
13015
11/07/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Fasc

I will let you know when RNG is in my favor or I start doing dailies so that I can reach the minimal ilvl requirement that is blocking accessibility to content.


Grind your dailies, do some heroics, find Sha groups, do a bit of PvP, whatever.

RNG doesn't exist everywhere to the point of not being able to do content. We had two holiday bosses to fill four slots with 470 ilvl items, even if they aren't for your primary spec you could use them to get into the raid (which is very easy in tuning). At this point you could have 2-3 VP items easily which are well OVER the ilvl needed for the content. A single Sha of Anger is guaranteed boots. Exalted Golden Lotus is a guaranteed necklace.

At this point its purely poor planning on your part and a lack of trying. You have a single Valor item purchased and its a necklace... something you get for free for just doing your dailies, of which you have done minimally.

Its not RNG. Its you.


Agreed, see how everyone who don't mind dailies, are almost done with it by now and progressing nicely with a mixture of VP/LFR/Raid gear.

While the whiners continues to whine about not being able to get into raids.
90 Undead Death Knight
9115
11/07/2012 12:55 PMPosted by Bomdanil
This implies that the majority of people were killing it on their second attempt, when I don't believe this was the reality.


New fights shouldn't be expected to be wipe free every time. Having at least some semblance of a learning curve is a good thing.


only true if you can control what and who you get
100 Night Elf Druid
13730
other LFR fights is that a few idiots will wipe you and can't be carried through (generally). If a moron doesn't move for Elegon, he just kills himself. If an idiot doesn't move for Garalon, he likely wipes us all.

The content itself is as stupidly simple.


DING DING DING, It doesnt matter how good or bad 95% of the raid is, takes 1 or 2 terrible players that are used to getting carried, then its nigh impossible. And you boot them but like 10 others leave which brings in more.
90 Night Elf Druid
13785
Well that's disappointing. An LFR fight that has genuine mechanics involved and you nerfed it because people weren't killing it on the first try every time.


Nerf is only to health, not to people sitting under the boss repeatedly getting smashed or silly kiters running pheromones everywhere and so on.

You could nerf the health of Elegon in LFR as well and it still doesn't stop a few from falling to their deaths.

My kill had some Hunter just stacking in melee range the last 10% because apparently someone said something nasty to him so he emo'd out hard. Half the raid died but we still got the kill. The nerf will cut down on time spent allowed to troll and if someone obviously trolls from the beginning (or is just that bad) they can be kicked after a wipe.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10070
God forbid a LFR team has to watch boss mechanics.. in a few weeks people wont even have to move an inch for any of these fights our gear will carry us through.
90 Blood Elf Priest
8500

only true if you can control what and who you get


Nah, in general mechanics you can learn as a group and don't require communication within the group are fine for lfr.

Mechanics which require a lot of communication don't really work well, though.

Stand out of the purple circle, tanks stack together in front of boss, and having a kiter rp walk and a backup take over when stacks get high is not too much for lfr. No individuals task is complicated in any way, and the vast majority of the raid isn't even doing anything special.

I don't see it any more demanding than lfr ultraxion.
100 Night Elf Druid
13730
11/07/2012 12:58 PMPosted by Exavion
God forbid a LFR team has to watch boss mechanics.. in a few weeks people wont even have to move an inch for any of these fights our gear will carry us through.


You arent a team, you are 25 people that between every wipe you lose 10 players, there is no learning curve, every fight is half the raids first time while the other half waits patiently for a group that understands what "Dont Stand in the Purple Circle" means
100 Night Elf Druid
13730

only true if you can control what and who you get


Nah, in general mechanics you can learn as a group and don't require communication within the group are fine for lfr.

Mechanics which require a lot of communication don't really work well, though.

Stand out of the purple circle, tanks stack together in front of boss, and having a kiter rp walk and a backup take over when stacks get high is not too much for lfr. No individuals task is complicated in any way, and the vast majority of the raid isn't even doing anything special.

I don't see it any more demanding than lfr ultraxion.


Dont stand in the Purple Circle is pretty demanding. The biggest deal is one bad person can be terrible, and where most fights he is the only one punished, this case everyone else is.
I've seen no acknowledgement of this.

Blizzard plz go to your internal data and look at Garalon failure rates and how it is causing people to not down a single boss due to the constant 2/3 queue times. We're all stuck here and I'd like to know if it is going to take a few weeks to fix or a few days.


A hotfix went in recently that re-tunes Garalon to be more appropriate for Raid Finder groups - he now has less health and Furious Swipe does less damage.

When did you last face him? The hotfix would have been applied yesterday evening (and will be noted in the next hotfix update blog).


I think groups are still struggling with this, it seems two major issues.

A core mechanical problem and not understanding

Griefing.
90 Human Warlock
4915


A hotfix went in recently that re-tunes Garalon to be more appropriate for Raid Finder groups - he now has less health and Furious Swipe does less damage.

When did you last face him? The hotfix would have been applied yesterday evening (and will be noted in the next hotfix update blog).


Damage and health nerfs won't fix the mechanics failures, unfortunately.


This is precisely the point my question was attempting to address.

I did the fight about 10 times last night before giving up. Every time I would re-read the encounter journal to try and figure out what we were doing wrong. This proved to be useless, because it frankly does a terrible job of explaining it. You have to have several people who know what they are doing command the fight and take full responsibility for dealing with the pheromones and cleaves in order to succeed. While it's isn't asking for a whole lot, I think it goes against what LFR is supposed to be
90 Human Warlock
4915
11/07/2012 12:04 PMPosted by Fawnix
Just use the tanks to get pheromones. Lay a pool and then mover over until he lays another. Repeat this around the room and it should be easy. At 20 stacks the other tank takes pheromones all the while both tanks soak furious swipe in front of him.


How on earth are you supposed to deduce the strategy from what is presented in the dungeon encounter journal?
90 Night Elf Druid
13785
11/07/2012 01:06 PMPosted by Lockenspiel
How on earth are you supposed to deduce the strategy from what is presented in the dungeon encounter journal?


By reading the abilities? I don't know how the strategy is unclear based on the information given.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10070
The real problem with LFR right now is everyone getting stuck on final boss queus. The same terrible people can just keep retrying, trolls keep on trolling the group, and everyone joining the queue quickly get filtered in a complete fail and end up hating LFR as a result.

Its not fair to people who actually learn the fights and pay attention, we already have to deal with randomness of the system but being FORCED into something that is utter failure is a complete joke. How many times have we gotten that 2/3 bosses defeated only to realize its getting constantly pulled when the group is half full and people are chewing each other out.

JUST LET THOSE GROUPS END - I guarantee 5 wipes should be plenty for any group if they are legitimately trying.
90 Blood Elf Priest
8500

Dont stand in the Purple Circle is pretty demanding. The biggest deal is one bad person can be terrible, and where most fights he is the only one punished, this case everyone else is.


terrible tanks, you wipe on ultraxion

dps kills tentacles on spine, you wipe on spine
94 Gnome Warlock
1960
11/07/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Ukali
only true if you can control what and who you get


Don't mistake me being disappointed in the speed at which they nerfed the fight to mean that I think LFR should be closer to normal mode than it is currently. I don't, and despite my genuine dislike for "We think you're a moron so here's a faceroll" content I know it's a necessity given how large and disparate the WoW playerbase is in terms of interests or skill.

My disappointment is purely over how reactionary it seems. Content wasn't even 6 hours old before it was beaten with a nerf stick. No one can tell me that 6 hours, most of which had many WoW'ers at work, school, or otherwise occupied due to time, is enough of a span to get an appropriate range of data to see if a nerf was genuninely needed or if it was just "new boss blues".
94 Gnome Warlock
1960
11/07/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Quorim
terrible tanks, you wipe on ultraxion


I get to have the (dis)pleasure of being able to say that I wound up solo tanking LFR Ultraxion more than I should have because of said terrible tanks.

My taunt buttons were always smoking a little afterward, but we managed to get it done.
90 Undead Death Knight
9115
11/07/2012 01:11 PMPosted by Bomdanil
only true if you can control what and who you get


Don't mistake me being disappointed in the speed at which they nerfed the fight to mean that I think LFR should be closer to normal mode than it is currently. I don't, and despite my genuine dislike for "We think you're a moron so here's a faceroll" content I know it's a necessity given how large and disparate the WoW playerbase is in terms of interests or skill.

My disappointment is purely over how reactionary it seems. Content wasn't even 6 hours old before it was beaten with a nerf stick. No one can tell me that 6 hours, most of which had many WoW'ers at work, school, or otherwise occupied due to time, is enough of a span to get an appropriate range of data to see if a nerf was genuninely needed or if it was just "new boss blues".

from my understanding, the purpose of LFR was for people to see the raid content, arts, lores, bosses, things in general. Loot are bonus for the casuals or recently returned players so they can catch up on gear in case they feel like raiding someday. I have no problems with the encounter being easy.

If you want challenge, there's normal and heroics for that
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